Probably, if that's the bad one. We have a can of it here in the lab.... I'd go check the label but I'd rather not get a whiff! It's kept in a cabinet inside a special room with an exhaust fan and filters. Strong stuff!

While bicycles have some pollutants, the amount is minuscule compared to what a normal car will generate. Washing a bike at a carwash won’t introduce much in the way of oils and grease into the environment comparatively. On the plus side, carwashes are regulated in what they can discharge into the municipal waste stream and have ways to deal with the material that is washed off cars. It’s far better to wash your bike (and car, for that matter) at a carwash then just dump the waste out on the ground and let it run into the nearest storm sewer which is connected directly to streams.

You might take along some Simple Green to remove excess crud from the drivetrain at the carwash. It sounds like you have a lot of “excess”.

I gave up lubricants that make the chain dirty long ago.

???

If you are painting a bike, masking is a necessary evil. But you should need to mask the bike to lubricate it. You are making life much harder than it needs to be.

This bike has around 1500 miles on the chain. I’m estimating because I don’t keep strict records on my chains but it has been on there for months of summer and winter riding. The drivetrain wasn’t cleaned for the picture and hasn’t been cleaned since I put the chain on the bike. I expect to get 1500 to 2000 more miles on the chain riding in conditions for which the bike was designed. I also will not clean the chain until I change it.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f0ea2af41.jpegThe bike had also just returned from 2 trips to an area where the sand was deep enough that it poured like water from my shoes

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e323d4faf.jpeg

This is also typical of the regions I ride this bike in regularly. Lots and lots and lots of sand, dirt, and, yes, cow dung. All without fenders because fenders get in the way when mountain biking.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a434cbbc1.jpeg

If I used ATF like you are suggesting, I’d be cleaning daily. I’ve got better things to do.

Bikes do not need lots and lots of oil to run well and shift smoothly. Bikes also don’t need to be covered in grease and muck from the lubrication. I likely get just as much mileage out of my chains...a consumable item, by the way...as you do without all the fuss.

did not read responses but I'm a minimalist when it comes to cleaning the drive train

1. flat head screw drive and scrape the jockey wheels, then take a rag with de-greaser and run the jockey wheels through it

2. spray the cassette with de-greaser then use strips of cloth to "floss" the cassette. Doesn't have to be perfect

3. spray de-greaser on front ring and wipe dry

4. take a rag with de-greaser on it and run the chain through it for a while, then dry the chain as best I can

5. re-lube with chain-L then wipe off the excess

ride, and wipe of the excess again, that's it

:bang: Where do people come up with the stuff? Citric acid will do not a thing to grease and oil. Any compound that is as soluble in water as citric acid is will not dissolve nonpolar compounds. If you look at the link, under “Properties/Solubility”, you’ll see that citric acid is insoluble in benzene and toluene. I wouldn’t be going too far out on a limb to say that it is insoluble in just about any oil derived from petroleum you might want to pick. Citric acid is a good chelating agent which is another indicator that it is a poor degreaser. Anything that reacts with metal ions does poorly with nonpolar materials.

The reason it works so well at descaling your kettle is because it is an acid and the salts in your kettle tend to be carbonates which react quite well with acids. Think baking soda and vinegar.

Perhaps you are thinking of limonene which is in citrus peel and is used in “citrus degreasers” but it is entirely different from citric acid. As a pure compound, it would be too expensive to use to clean chains (650 mL is about $20).

It works splendidly as a degreaser for the oils I have tried. Maybe not silicone based grease or teflon.
But it doesn't matter much, water and little bit of (actual) soap will remove most things.

https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

This thread is hitting for the cycle!

In a bit of an appeal to authority, I am a chemist by training and experience. 40 years of bench experience, to be precise. I know a whole lot about how to dissolve stuff that doesn’t want to dissolve.

Your Google search shows one hit for citric acid as a degreaser that is written by someone with a Bachelor of Science degree in public administration. It shows a whole bunch more hits saying basically what I’ve said above. “Citrus cleaners” aren’t “citric acid”. They are lemonene based and usually alkaline. Citric acid is highly acidic.

Vegetable oil is different from petroleum based oils but for this illustration, it is a good model. I’ll assume you are familiar with vinegar and oil for dressing salads. Mix up a batch and see how well the oil dissolves in the vinegar. The oil is nonpolar and the vinegar is polar. They don’t mix. You could substitute the citric acid for the vinegar and they still won’t mix. They are even less likely to mix because citric acid has 3 acid groups per molecule vs one for vinegar. That’s the reason that citric acid is a chelating agent...the 3 acid groups wrap around metals and trap them. It probably takes two citric acid groups to the do the job for most transition metals to get the proper number of electrons to share.

If you are adding soap...probably dish soap...that is doing far more then the citric acid.

I really am trying to be helpful here. People have these elaborate systems for chain cleaning where it can really be simple. Put the chain in about 250 mL (1/2 cup) of mineral spirits in a bottle (large mouth plastic bottles work), vigorously shake it for 30 seconds or until your arm gets tired. Pull it out and let it dry. That’s all that is needed. That’s all that the chain is worth when it comes to cleaning. If you have oil all over the bike, put a little on a rag and wipe away.

Then consider using a lubricant that doesn’t make a mess.

Fair enough. I'm good with being wrong. I usually use undiluted soap (as in "Not washing up liquid", but Bronner's etc.) to remove teflon or silicon or that sh... copper grease. It just takes a bunch and it takes an immense amount of water to rinse afterwards.

Well, obviously he was suggesting you use a much more manageable Rag instead of a Rug to clean the chain. :D

I can see where there is confusion. You start off (thus the first impression, which sticks most deeply and sets the tone) by saying use a Lot of ATF.

You also say,

I have never tried ATF as a chain lube. I can say that the method you suggest doesn't sound like it is necessarily "The Best."

I use little citrus cleaner or mineral spirits on a rag (I use old dish scrubbers.) I grab the chain, pedal backwards, and the combination of friction and solvent does the job.

It is a lot easier to control and basically nothing sprays nothing onto anything. I physically scrub the chain while the solvents hopefully ooze in and dissolve old grease and such inside the rollers.

By far the better solution was suggested by [MENTION=21724]cyccommute[/MENTION]: put the chain is a small container with mineral spirits of citrus cleaner and shake. I use the dish scrubber for quick cleanup and only remove the chain every couple weeks or whatever---basically as needed or if I haven't done it in a while. Because I rotate through different bikes it is hard to track maintenance---i do it as needed.

Since I use quick links, taking the chain off is not an issue (unless I drop the quick link.) However, it is Imperative whenever using Any solvent on a chain, to let it dry completely---overnight at least---or the solvent will displace or dilute the lube.

One way around this is to clean with light oil (much as you use ATF) except I don't use so much that I need to erect spray controls. :) Particularly if the chain needs a serious cleaning but I don't notice it until I am about to head out, the oil method works well.

People also tell me that it is best to oil a chain at might and not to wipe off the excess until the next morning, to give the oil time to seep in between the pins and rollers. No clue how true this is, but if I remember, i do this.

Convert to a wax base lube such as Squirt

A person who has only been cycling for six months is very dedicated if s/he has won out enough chains to know which treatment provides greater longevity. :D

As with most things BF, the best advice is "Lighten up."


"It's only life, after all."

Or Smoove. Wax based lubes are superior in every way. They are more difficult to clean though and require a two step process of citrus cleaner then alcohol. Smoove is particularly tenacious as far as wax lubes go.

In your description, you say that you pedal backward rapidly to fling the oil off. Flinging oil means it goes everywhere. There are far better ways of cleaning that don’t involve any flinging at all.

Yes. My bike is cleaner because I don’t use oil. There’s no oil for the dirt to get trapped on so it doesn’t stick to the frame or drivetrain and thus stays cleaner. That bike is also my winter bike so it sees a fair amount of slop in the winter months. It still stays clean.

As for needing oil in wet conditions, that’s a misconception most people have. Yes, you drivetrain might seem better lubricated but that’s a misconception. The oil mixes with water and separates out in the chain just like oil and water usually does. The water is trapped against the metal with the oil sitting on top. It does the same damage as if the chain weren’t lubricated or if a wax lubricant were used. It’s just muffled by the oil.



Your description indicates that you have a whole lot of oil on the drivetrain. You are using it as a solvent so you need a lot. You even say “Apply liberal (lotso) amounts of ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid) on the drivetrain (chain and derailleur)” and “...backpedal fast to fling away excess ATF and finally wipe off excess ATF with rug from the chain and derailleurs...”. That’s a lot of oil. And, as with most oil lubricants, there is a constant drip of oil from the chain that makes it a maintenance nightmare in my opinion. That’s for everyone, not just you.

I’ve used oil in the past. I work on bikes all the time that are lubricated with oil. I even used Phil Tenacious Oil in the past that is similar or perhaps a bit more viscous than ATF...it’s thick enough that the oil strings between the chain and the jockey wheel when you pedal backwards. I hated the constant cleaning that oil required and found a way that requires a lot less work.

You only have to perform the deep cleaning once and after that I only wipe it with a rag before adding more. I add once a week which is when I reach 100 miles and there’s very little dirt when I wipe it down.

Maelochs

I got my BB rehauled today at the local bikehub. The guy said it looked pretty rough inside.

I now got it shifting into second gear. The bike feels smooth and fast. No more wobble..

Many good ideas here, and conflicting opinions. One can't help but notice that contributors to threads on riding in wet weather are concerned/convinced that an hour of rainwater will remove almost any lube from a chain.

Really?