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Are Rene Herse Extralights supposed to have sidewall pinholes?

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Are Rene Herse Extralights supposed to have sidewall pinholes?

Old 01-18-21, 03:16 PM
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chaadster
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Are Rene Herse Extralights supposed to have sidewall pinholes?

I just went to mount a brand new pair of Bon Jon Extralights, with black sidewall, and both tires have pinholes at several points on the sidewalls, at mold release ridges.

Is this typical?

I’ve heard of Extralights having leaky sidewalls, and I
know Herse say the Extralights need sealant to be air tight, but are these pinholes what they mean? I guess I assumed the thin sidewalls didn’t have enough rubber thickness to prevent leakage, but that there are actually holes is quite a surprise...if
indeed that’s normal and not
defects.

I found no phone number at RH to call with the question, and only a warranty request form; it kind of sucks one can’t talk to someone live, but I did submit the form explaining the
situation.

I’m kind of loathe to add sealant if I’m just going to have to pull these off immediately for warranty replacement, but since the site says to 7 to 14 days for a reply, I guess I may as well add it and let it seal the holes.

Thinking about it more now, I guess there is no problem in letting the sealant do its thing; I was caught off guard by the holes, and immediately assumed it was a flaw, but maybe regardless of whether it is or not, it doesn’t matter if it seals up.

Anyone have any experience with this, or thoughts on whether it’s a problematic
situation?



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Old 01-18-21, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I’ve heard of Extralights having leaky sidewalls, and I
know Herse say the Extralights need sealant to be air tight, but are these pinholes what they mean? I guess I assumed the thin sidewalls didn’t have enough rubber thickness to prevent leakage, but that there are actually holes is quite a surprise...if
indeed that’s normal and not
defects.
Generally they're referring to the porousity of the thin sidewalls.

Those are actually holes, not just round spots in the ridge?
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Old 01-18-21, 03:32 PM
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Do they hold air? I don't ride tubeless tires that won't hold air without sealant.

Why are all those threads showing on your spokes?

Phone: (206) 789-0424
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Old 01-18-21, 03:32 PM
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I checked the Rene Herse website to verify my question: are these tubeless clinchers? No they are not.

So I am wondering if you are taking about adding sealant to the inner tube? Are you running a butyl or latex inner tube? The pinholes you are seeing might just be the “extralight” sidewall and not a manufacturing defect. Seeing those exposed plies reminds me of some older Continental Grand Prix tires I used to run. I would think you just run them with whatever tube you choose, with no sealant and then report back on their relative air retention.
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Old 01-18-21, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
I checked the Rene Herse website to verify my question: are these tubeless clinchers? No they are not.

So I am wondering if you are taking about adding sealant to the inner tube? Are you running a butyl or latex inner tube? The pinholes you are seeing might just be the “extralight” sidewall and not a manufacturing defect. Seeing those exposed plies reminds me of some older Continental Grand Prix tires I used to run. I would think you just run them with whatever tube you choose, with no sealant and then report back on their relative air retention.
  • Clincher, folding bead
  • Tubeless-compatible
  • Maximum pressure with tubes: 90 psi (6.2 bar)
  • Maximum recommended pressure – tubeless: 60 psi (4 bar)
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Old 01-18-21, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
I checked the Rene Herse website to verify my question: are these tubeless clinchers? No they are not.
All Bon Jon Pass variants are advertised as tubeless-compatible.
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Old 01-18-21, 03:51 PM
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Drillium tires...
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Old 01-18-21, 04:01 PM
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A true commitment to reduced weight.
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Old 01-18-21, 04:10 PM
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From the look of those exposed spoke threads, leaky sidewalls will be the least of your troubles.

Last edited by Koyote; 01-18-21 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 01-18-21, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
Generally they're referring to the porousity of the thin sidewalls.

Those are actually holes, not just round spots in the ridge?
That’s what I assumed, too, but yeah, they’re holes, not just round spots.
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Old 01-18-21, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
  • Clincher, folding bead
  • Tubeless-compatible
  • Maximum pressure with tubes: 90 psi (6.2 bar)
  • Maximum recommended pressure – tubeless: 60 psi (4 bar)
Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
All Bon Jon Pass variants are advertised as tubeless-compatible.
oh! I missed the “bon Jon” part. I looked up the Chinook Pass model.

So running these Bon Jon tires tubeless does sound like it could be dicey.
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Old 01-18-21, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Do they hold air? I don't ride tubeless tires that won't hold air without sealant.

Why are all those threads showing on your spokes?

Phone: (206) 789-0424
Of course they don’t hold air, as I said, there are holes!

I don’t have a problem with needing sealant, I just wonder if the holes are defects or typical of the construction.

The spokes are fiber; Spinergy wheels.

Thanks for the phone #! I’ll give ‘em a call now!

EDIT: number does not work at all.
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Old 01-18-21, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
A true commitment to reduced weight.
Well, my other recent acquisitions from Herse, also tubeless, were a royal PITA to install and leak down like freaks, so my commitment is definitely shaken! These mounted up easily, at least.
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Old 01-18-21, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
From the look of those exposed spoke threads, leaky sidewalls will be the least of your troubles.
Of the many things you are unaware of, add Spinergy to your list.
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Old 01-18-21, 04:28 PM
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Pretty sure I read over the summer a blog post by Jan where he rambled on in defense of his company not having an easy way to call them. It cited covid, working from home, not able to forward calls, yada yada. Basically, accept the poor customer service for a premium product even if competitors have figured out better working options.

Having read countless forum posts(here and elsewhere) as well as actual tire reviews by websites that all complain about RH tires not sealing and having to send em back for warranty, I am convinced that 30% of the reason why RH tires are so expensive is due to warranty processing costs(shipping, inventory loss, etc).
They look cool though.
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Old 01-18-21, 04:28 PM
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So I added sealant, 40ml to start, and besides light leaking through the holes, the sealant seemed to get sucked up by the tire: after a second, I couldn’t hear it sloshing in there, and not all the holes sealed, so I added another 30ml and they seem to have sealed fine.

I gotta get to the studio now, so I’ll check on them later this evening and see what’s happening.
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Old 01-18-21, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Of the many things you are unaware of, add Spinergy to your list.
Well, at least I know how to mount BJP tires. 😀
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Old 01-18-21, 04:40 PM
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No advice but here's my thought.

About a month ago, I started the long slow process of putting a new bike together while parts arrived in the mail, and I only have limited free time.

The first task was mounting my tires. I used Maxxis Ramblers and Stan's Crest ZTR rims. I sealed the rim and mounted with soap and water, and left them. Figuring I'd only want sealant once I was actually ready to ride the bike.

It's been awhile, a month or so, they are still aired up and only a few PSI less than they started. Without a drop of sealant yet.

These tires are also as light as anything RH sells in that size.

I have never ridden RH. That ride better be better than God's chariot to justify leaky new tires.
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Old 01-18-21, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Pretty sure I read over the summer a blog post by Jan where he rambled on in defense of his company not having an easy way to call them. It cited covid, working from home, not able to forward calls, yada yada. Basically, accept the poor customer service for a premium product even if competitors have figured out better working options.

Having read countless forum posts(here and elsewhere) as well as actual tire reviews by websites that all complain about RH tires not sealing and having to send em back for warranty, I am convinced that 30% of the reason why RH tires are so expensive is due to warranty processing costs(shipping, inventory loss, etc).
They look cool though.
The standard casings don't have any sealing issues, in my experience, and they ride beautifully and are surprisingly durable.

The extralight casings do require a bit of extra time, knowledge, and sealant, and generally don't last as long, but the ride quality is even better. It seems the OP simply hasn't done the homework which is necessary to understand and properly seal up these tires...If he had, he wouldn't have these questions.
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Old 01-18-21, 05:16 PM
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Have a read about a very similar problem here. Extra light RH tires and sealant, even has photos!

RH makes it impossible to contact them by phone as mentioned above. While on Paceline have a look at the thread that mstateglfr mentioned because it is an eye opener.

You will need to go through the website to send off a message.
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Old 01-18-21, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
No advice but here's my thought.

About a month ago, I started the long slow process of putting a new bike together while parts arrived in the mail, and I only have limited free time.

The first task was mounting my tires. I used Maxxis Ramblers and Stan's Crest ZTR rims. I sealed the rim and mounted with soap and water, and left them. Figuring I'd only want sealant once I was actually ready to ride the bike.

It's been awhile, a month or so, they are still aired up and only a few PSI less than they started. Without a drop of sealant yet.

These tires are also as light as anything RH sells in that size.

I have never ridden RH. That ride better be better than God's chariot to justify leaky new tires.
I haven’t looked at Maxxis’ road offerings in a long, long while...not since a pair of Detonators which were the worst riding tires I’ve ever had. I know they’ve upped their game since those days, and do a lot of race sponsorship, so I’ll check them out.

Those Herse Switchback Hills I have in 650x47 with the standard casing do ride sweetly, so I thought I’d give the brand another go with these, assuming the EL casing was quite light for the 35c size at 303gm or something, but I didn’t comparison shop. If I bomb out on these, at least it won’t be the worst $200 I’ve ever spent!
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Old 01-18-21, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by blakcloud View Post
Have a read about a very similar problem here. Extra light RH tires and sealant, even has photos!

RH makes it impossible to contact them by phone as mentioned above. While on Paceline have a look at the thread that mstateglfr mentioned because it is an eye opener.

You will need to go through the website to send off a message.
Oh, I’m familiar with Heine, having been in some testy discussions with him years ago on some forum or other. I know he’s an opinionated dude, but, he and Bicycle Quarterly were right about the tire thing, and way ahead of the mainstream with it, so I give credit where credit is due. I mean, I think it took wide rims for what he asserted to make sense for me; I tried narrow rims with wide, low-pressure tires and didn’t like the handling impacts.

While, as I mentioned in the OP, I was aware of the sealing issues with the EL, I still haven’t seen any particular discussion about how the sidewalls were leaking. IIRC, one of the zines even used the term “weep,” so I thought it was a permeable sidewall issue, not one of actual holes. Did I miss photos of the issue in the thread you linked? I saw the sidewall cut photo...

As I said earlier, I did submit a query on the RH site, and if I receive a reply, I’ll post back here the official company account of my sidewall holes, and hopefully they’ll answer the question whether they’re to be expected or if they’re production flaws.
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Old 01-18-21, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Oh, I’m familiar with Heine, having been in some testy discussions with him years ago on some forum or other. I know he’s an opinionated dude, but, he and Bicycle Quarterly were right about the tire thing, and way ahead of the mainstream with it, so I give credit where credit is due. I mean, I think it took wide rims for what he asserted to make sense for me; I tried narrow rims with wide, low-pressure tires and didn’t like the handling impacts.

While, as I mentioned in the OP, I was aware of the sealing issues with the EL, I still haven’t seen any particular discussion about how the sidewalls were leaking. IIRC, one of the zines even used the term “weep,” so I thought it was a permeable sidewall issue, not one of actual holes. Did I miss photos of the issue in the thread you linked? I saw the sidewall cut photo...

As I said earlier, I did submit a query on the RH site, and if I receive a reply, I’ll post back here the official company account of my sidewall holes, and hopefully they’ll answer the question whether they’re to be expected or if they’re production flaws.
The first photo in that thread shows the exact problem you are having. It leaks at the seam on a brand new tire. Can't see if it is the whole seam or holes like yours. I just thought what a coincidence that on the same day two people post on two different forums about the same issue on extra lights. The other photo of the sliced tire also happened to me after about 20 km on a new tire. Sucks but that is the price you pay for supple tires. And please don't get me wrong, I love Rene Herse/Grand Bois/Compass tires as I have them on my three bikes and my wife's Rivendell. I am not a fan of how JH runs RH. Other small companies like White Industries or Paul Components have much better customer service than Rene Herse. For this reason I buy most of my tires at I's Cycle (Grand Bois) when I go to Kyoto. I have no doubt Jan will take care of you, it will just take longer than it really has to.
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Old 01-18-21, 08:29 PM
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Several months ago I posted in this forum a complaint about Rene Herse customer service. At the time I purchased a set of Snoqualmie Pass standard tires (not the extralights). After 4000 km with this tire I am really impressed. I have taken these tires over really rocky gravel road descents. Despite having no tread the tires work fine on all the gravel surfaces I have encountered here in rural Mexico. I just built up a second bike with 43 mm Gravel King SS tires. They seem to be as fast as the RH tires on pavement but are much less supple than the RH tires. I really like riding the RH tires on pavement and gravel. So in spite of their poor customer service ( actually non- existent) I will keep buying their tires. All tires set up tubeless.
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Old 01-18-21, 08:52 PM
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I like their tires and I have a serious phone phobia, so I guess their customer service model (email) suits me fine.

I've only set up one set of tires tubeless. They are the new 55mm treaded 700C tires (Fleecer Ridge Endurance Plus), and I used their recommended sealant, produced by Panaracer. The tires were a bit of a PITA to mount, but once they did, they have been fine.

I was put off trying any of their other older tires tubeless because the idea of sealant weeping through the sidewalls and coming off rims makes it sound like they weren't originally designed to be tubeless, and they have been labeled tubeless-compatible. Maybe I am being paranoid, but I would rather just stick tubes in them and not deal with the hassle (and set up with tubes, they have been great). I had one tire that developed a split in the sidewall, and they sent me a new tire and asked for the wounded one to examine. It may well have been my fault, but their customer service has been more than I could ask for (and I didn't have to listen to highly-compressed Muzak while I am put on phone hold).
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