Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Looking for advice for a Mid late 90s classic or 80s bike

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Looking for advice for a Mid late 90s classic or 80s bike

Old 02-09-21, 05:57 AM
  #26  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,681
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 640 Post(s)
Liked 1,464 Times in 859 Posts
I am a vintage road bike guy mainly because it is what I have been riding since the early seventies. I don't do change well and I love what I ride. I have quite a collection of these lugged steel bikes and they are all a little different in how they ride. Some of them are more relaxed and forgiving , others are agile and quick, it depends on the type of riding I am planning on. With your budget in the classic bike world you can do well. I do all the wrenching on my bikes unless I am just too busy at my shop, so that is a consideration. I only have a couple of bikes with sealed bearings so I do have to maintain them , but not that bad if you have the tools. In the eighties and later it was more common for bikes to have sealed bearings and that takes a lot of the wrenching out of the equation.
Kabuki12 is offline  
Likes For Kabuki12:
Old 02-09-21, 10:10 AM
  #27  
John Valuk
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 216
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked 138 Times in 87 Posts
I see a reference here to 32 mm tires.

When you're looking at frames, that will be an important criterion to keep in mind, because some frames will absolutely not accommodate a tire of that size. Ask me how I know...
John Valuk is offline  
Old 02-09-21, 10:10 AM
  #28  
tkamd73 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 1,703

Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
Liked 857 Times in 453 Posts
Originally Posted by longhitv View Post
Actually I pitched this idea to a few avid biker friends.

I asked, why donwhI just go on ebay and buy a NOS classic frame, and build a great bike will all new gear. As a car reference, like a restomod.

I was told nobody does that?


This past weekend I sold my 82 Raleigh. The bike needed everything redone, and the costs would have been far exceeding the value. It was a base bike with the mose basic groupset.
Yeah, people do that! Bought this frame off of eBay, for 300 dollars, and built it up.
Tim



1991 Waterford Paramount OS
tkamd73 is offline  
Old 02-09-21, 07:28 PM
  #29  
longhitv
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
longhitv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Tim thats awesome

Originally Posted by tkamd73 View Post
Yeah, people do that! Bought this frame off of eBay, for 300 dollars, and built it up.
Tim



1991 Waterford Paramount OS

This bike is stunning.
longhitv is offline  
Likes For longhitv:
Old 02-09-21, 11:00 PM
  #30  
Korina
Happy banana slug
 
Korina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,182

Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked 1,077 Times in 666 Posts
Originally Posted by longhitv View Post
Actually I pitched this idea to a few avid biker friends.

I asked, why donwhI just go on ebay and buy a NOS classic frame, and build a great bike will all new gear. As a car reference, like a restomod.

I was told nobody does that?


This past weekend I sold my 82 Raleigh. The bike needed everything redone, and the costs would have been far exceeding the value. It was a base bike with the mose basic groupset.
Just so you know, any money you put into the bike is going to exceed its value. I bought a vintage bike for $75 and put $700+ into it (nearly half was for the mechanic); it's a stupid amount of money, but it's a much better bike than I could buy new for the price. She's not finished yet, but she rides great, and of course I have to show off.



'Hey, what's in the big pink box?'
Korina is offline  
Old 02-09-21, 11:41 PM
  #31  
longhitv
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
longhitv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Yes I did a quick tally

New Bianchi celeste green frame on ebay. $500. Almost hit Buy it Now about 10 times.
But then.....
  • New groupset (can be very expensive and tough to get)
  • wheels, tube and tires.
  • cables, handlebars and grip tape.
  • stem, pedals, chain.
  • seat post and seat.
  • bell. 😁

Wheels alone. Easy way to spend $2000 or more on a restomod bike.

Last edited by longhitv; 02-10-21 at 12:33 AM.
longhitv is offline  
Old 02-10-21, 08:25 AM
  #32  
Phil_gretz
Zip tie Karen
 
Phil_gretz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,005

Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '16 Motobecane Gran Premio Elite, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1464 Post(s)
Liked 1,537 Times in 804 Posts
Originally Posted by longhitv View Post
New Bianchi celeste green frame on ebay. $500. Almost hit Buy it Now about 10 times.
But then.....
  • New groupset (can be very expensive and tough to get)
  • wheels, tube and tires.
  • cables, handlebars and grip tape.
  • stem, pedals, chain.
  • seat post and seat.
  • bell. 😁

Wheels alone. Easy way to spend $2000 or more on a restomod bike.
I'm guessing that you could do that ^ frame (price) with all carbon parts, full R8000 (non disc) group, and decent carbon wheels for just at $2000.
Phil_gretz is offline  
Old 02-10-21, 08:56 AM
  #33  
Drew Eckhardt 
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 549 Post(s)
Liked 320 Times in 223 Posts
Originally Posted by longhitv View Post
Actually I pitched this idea to a few avid biker friends.

I asked, why donwhI just go on ebay and buy a NOS classic frame, and build a great bike will all new gear. As a car reference, like a restomod.

I was told nobody does that?
Lots of us ride older frames with newer parts.

I've been riding a Litespeed Natchez frame and Look fork since 1997. It fits great, the traditional geometry leaves room for 2 large water bottles plus a frame pump, and it looks classic.

It's mostly 2002-2006 Record Titanium 10 speed in shiny silver/clear coated carbon fiber plus 2010 Centaur Carbon levers and a FSA SLK Light carbon triple crank.

With no acceptable 12 speed gearing options and the move to black anodizing/plastic it will probably stay that way indefinitely.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Likes For Drew Eckhardt:
Old 02-10-21, 08:58 AM
  #34  
tkamd73 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 1,703

Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
Liked 857 Times in 453 Posts
Originally Posted by longhitv View Post
This bike is stunning.
Thanks! Every bike in my small fleet is probably something that would probably work for you. Almost all my bikes started out as frames that I picked up from somewhere, and the most I ever paid was 300 dollars.
That red Paramount had almost all the parts sourced from eBay, all in, ready to ride, that bike cost me just under a thousand dollars. Besides riding them, I really enjoy sourcing the parts, building them up, and experimenting with different components.
Here is another one that started with a crashed frame, that the mech at one of my LBS gave me for free. Had to have the frame repaired and repainted, so all in was about 1500 dollars.
Tim



1983 Bianchi Champione del Mondo

,

Last edited by tkamd73; 02-10-21 at 09:45 AM.
tkamd73 is offline  
Likes For tkamd73:
Old 02-10-21, 09:34 AM
  #35  
tkamd73 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 1,703

Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
Liked 857 Times in 453 Posts
Building up a bike is not cheap, even buying used components that you recondition yourself, you’ll never recoup your costs, if you care about that kind of stuff. I don’t, its a hobby, its entertainment, and something that keeps me grounded, and sane in retirement. Still it’s way cheaper then buying a decent new bike, if you can even find one these days.
My least expensive bike was my Trek TX900, bought it complete, and perfectly maintained, from someone who could no longer ride it. 600 dollars all in, just had to replace the stem, bike came with a 120mm Cinelli, and re-tape the bars. If you just want something to ride, buy a complete bike from someone who cares.
Tim



1977 Trek TX900
tkamd73 is offline  
Likes For tkamd73:
Old 02-10-21, 10:06 AM
  #36  
Kabuki12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,681
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 640 Post(s)
Liked 1,464 Times in 859 Posts
Originally Posted by Korina View Post
Just so you know, any money you put into the bike is going to exceed its value. I bought a vintage bike for $75 and put $700+ into it (nearly half was for the mechanic); it's a stupid amount of money, but it's a much better bike than I could buy new for the price. She's not finished yet, but she rides great, and of course I have to show off.



'Hey, what's in the big pink box?'
Actually $800 is not a stupid amount of money if it is something you can enjoy and afford. It is a very unique build that looks versatile and fun. It isn't my style but it is a very nice looking machine that obviously took some effort. It has style and serves you well = whatever $$ got you there. Joe
Kabuki12 is offline  
Likes For Kabuki12:
Old 02-10-21, 08:45 PM
  #37  
Korina
Happy banana slug
 
Korina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,182

Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked 1,077 Times in 666 Posts
Originally Posted by Kabuki12 View Post
Actually $800 is not a stupid amount of money if it is something you can enjoy and afford. It is a very unique build that looks versatile and fun. It isn't my style but it is a very nice looking machine that obviously took some effort. It has style and serves you well = whatever $$ got you there. Joe
Thanks. Pretty Purple Princess Penelope is my poor woman's Rivendell; she can do anything I ask of her, and do it with style. A couple days ago I took her down a very steep hill at an imprudent 32mph, considering the chunky pavement, and with my butt off the saddle a couple of inches she was stable as a rock. (In the middle of this a truck on the lane-and-a-half road came towards me right as I was drawing level with a large blackberry cane; I collapsed my elbow and shoulder in, and escaped unscathed. I eventually unclenched.)
Korina is offline  
Old 02-10-21, 08:57 PM
  #38  
John Valuk
Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 216
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked 138 Times in 87 Posts
Originally Posted by Korina View Post
'Hey, what's in the big pink box?'
For what it's worth, I totally get that reference.

Cool bike, too!
John Valuk is offline  
Likes For John Valuk:
Old 02-10-21, 11:20 PM
  #39  
Camilo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,995
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked 738 Times in 472 Posts
Originally Posted by longhitv View Post
Actually I pitched this idea to a few avid biker friends.

I asked, why donwhI just go on ebay and buy a NOS classic frame, and build a great bike will all new gear. As a car reference, like a restomod.

I was told nobody does that?....
Really? that's nonsense! They don't know their heads from hot rocks. It's very common among people who know more about bikes than what they learn walking into a bike shop.

On this very website, one of the best and most popular threads in the Classic and Vintage forum:

The New Classic Rigs and Rides Thread 1.1
Camilo is offline  
Likes For Camilo:
Old 02-11-21, 05:01 PM
  #40  
Camilo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,995
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked 738 Times in 472 Posts
Originally Posted by tkamd73 View Post
Yeah, people do that! Bought this frame off of eBay, for 300 dollars, and built it up.
Tim



1991 Waterford Paramount OS
Gorgeous! I think the head tube is the same length as my seat tube!
Camilo is offline  
Old 02-11-21, 07:42 PM
  #41  
longhitv
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
longhitv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by tkamd73 View Post
Thanks! Every bike in my small fleet is probably something that would probably work for you. Almost all my bikes started out as frames that I picked up from somewhere, and the most I ever paid was 300 dollars.
That red Paramount had almost all the parts sourced from eBay, all in, ready to ride, that bike cost me just under a thousand dollars. Besides riding them, I really enjoy sourcing the parts, building them up, and experimenting with different components.
Here is another one that started with a crashed frame, that the mech at one of my LBS gave me for free. Had to have the frame repaired and repainted, so all in was about 1500 dollars.
Tim



1983 Bianchi Champione del Mondo

,
Tim this is totally what I want. Ive considered just bike a Bianchi frame and a second bike with decent gear and swapping it over.
longhitv is offline  
Likes For longhitv:
Old 02-11-21, 08:25 PM
  #42  
Ironfish653
Dirty Heathen
 
Ironfish653's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: MC-778, 6250 fsw
Posts: 1,974

Bikes: 1997 Cannondale, 1976 Bridgestone, 1998 SoftRide, 1989 Klein, 1989 Black Lightning #0033

Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 791 Post(s)
Liked 707 Times in 429 Posts
Originally Posted by longhitv View Post
I asked, why dont I just go on ebay and buy a NOS classic frame, and build a great bike will all new gear. As a car reference, like a restomod.

I was told nobody does that?
Most of the time, unless you're trying to build a very specific spec, or 'centerpiece' component, or you've got several of the major components already on hand (or for very cheap) it'll cost 30%-50% more to build a bike a piece at a time, than to just buy a complete one of similar spec. The cost factor goes up considerably more if you're buying all new components at retail, and having a shop do the build for you. The frame, wheels, and driveline are (usually) fairly easy to aquire, but it's the finishing kit like headsets, seatposts, cables and 'jewelry' that adds up surprisingly quick, and with the current supply chain, it's a roll of the dice for availability.

Metal-framed road bikes, steel in particular (since they favor the traditonal), haven't really made any major changes in frame design since the early 1990's, so fitting an older bike with modern components tends to result in a bike that's very similar to the era the chosen components came from. Other than some of the details, like 25mm tires max on 1990's bikes, you'll end up with a premium price for a bike that could have been bought 'off the rack'

Now, there are some iconic (or iconoclastic) bikes that do lend themselves to 'restomod' because they don't make 'em like that any more; Pre-Trek Lemond's, KLEINs, and early Cannondales (like the 2.8) as well as some of the 'alt' designs like the SoftRide 'beam' frames. These were exceptional bikes in their day, and people keep upgrading them because they want to keep riding them. There's not much of a following for mid-range Bianchis.

If you've got your heart set on a celeste green Bianchi with 10-sp Ultegra, I'd suggest looking for something modern, or be prepared to pay what it's going to take to make your dream bike happen.
Ironfish653 is offline  
Old 02-11-21, 10:12 PM
  #43  
tkamd73 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 1,703

Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
Liked 857 Times in 453 Posts
Originally Posted by longhitv View Post
Tim this is totally what I want. Ive considered just bike a Bianchi frame and a second bike with decent gear and swapping it over.
That is a nice frame, if itís the right size, get it, and start from there.
Tim
tkamd73 is offline  
Old 02-12-21, 06:26 PM
  #44  
Korina
Happy banana slug
 
Korina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 3,182

Bikes: 1984 Araya MB 261, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 1993 Hard Rock Ultra, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1254 Post(s)
Liked 1,077 Times in 666 Posts
Originally Posted by John Valuk View Post
For what it's worth, I totally get that reference.

Cool bike, too!
With that name, I would hope so.
Korina is offline  
Old 02-12-21, 07:41 PM
  #45  
DocJames
Observational Theorist
 
DocJames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Aluminum has a shelf life and a used bike could be towards the end of that or might have dings and damage you don't want.
Wow! I've heard this before but never paid much attention to it. Any idea what the length of time is? Having just bought several older aluminum rigs I'm now concerned. Both seemed to have been barely ridden and sat in storage more than anything else. Wonder if that's a factor in shelf life?
DocJames is offline  
Old 02-12-21, 08:02 PM
  #46  
DocJames
Observational Theorist
 
DocJames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by ofajen View Post
Iím always the last to know. I was going to suggest that as an option. I have a Schwinn Sprint from the mid 80s running SS with touring bars. Great for just enjoying the ride. Lots of miles on it with no trouble, and very comfortable.

Otto
You and me both! Decades in saddle. I remember thinking the ss crew and fixie freaks were nuts just trying to be cool and trendy. Fast forward, here we are I now own two SS, one with a fixie flip flop, and apparently I'm late. They're going out just as I'm getting in?
DocJames is offline  
Likes For DocJames:
Old 02-12-21, 08:02 PM
  #47  
veganbikes
Clark W. Griswold
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ,location, location
Posts: 11,193

Bikes: Foundry Chilkoot Ti W/Ultegra Di2, Salsa Timberjack Ti, Cinelli Mash Work RandoCross Fun Time Machine, 1x9 XT Parts Hybrid, Co-Motion Cascadia, Specialized Langster, Phil Wood Apple VeloXS Frame (w/DA 7400), R+M Supercharger2 Rohloff, Habanero Ti 26

Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3437 Post(s)
Liked 2,738 Times in 1,830 Posts
Originally Posted by DocJames View Post
Wow! I've heard this before but never paid much attention to it. Any idea what the length of time is? Having just bought several older aluminum rigs I'm now concerned. Both seemed to have been barely ridden and sat in storage more than anything else. Wonder if that's a factor in shelf life?
I remember one of my old mechanics who had been in the game a while and had run the gamut in the industry and as a racer and occasional team mechanic saying 5-10 years for a bike that has been ridden a lot and especially raced and ridden hard. Granted plenty of people have older aluminum bikes that are still going. So I think it is keeping an eye on the frame and cleaning it with some regularity and keeping a mind on how it starts to feel. I probably wouldn't ride a used frame without knowing the history but if it was a frame I owned throughout the life of it and have been keeping it in good shape I would probably be looking in the 20s to start replacement at least for me or moving that bike to less usage duties. Fatigue is the real killer so I guess shelf life really should be fatigue life but I like the term shelf life more.

Obviously though an unused frame that hasn't been abused in storage will not be subject to the same issues.
veganbikes is offline  
Old 02-12-21, 09:46 PM
  #48  
Danhedonia
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 394
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 237 Post(s)
Liked 177 Times in 95 Posts
Older bikes introduce complexity because it's often harder to find decent parts and tools.

Of course, if you're riding a $100 3-speed, YMMV.
Danhedonia is offline  
Old 02-12-21, 10:44 PM
  #49  
longhitv
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
longhitv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 22 Posts
wow just need this!!

Just need a sturdy frame and this $7000 NOS groupset.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-NIB-Cam...MAAOSwhBNflbVP
longhitv is offline  
Likes For longhitv:
Old 02-13-21, 08:06 AM
  #50  
tkamd73 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 1,703

Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 563 Post(s)
Liked 857 Times in 453 Posts
Originally Posted by Danhedonia View Post
Older bikes introduce complexity because it's often harder to find decent parts and tools.

Of course, if you're riding a $100 3-speed, YMMV.
Only harder to find if you donít have the internet, otherwise pretty simple, and just a click away.
Tim
tkamd73 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.