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Help an idiot get the right pannier rack

Old 02-19-21, 08:47 AM
  #1  
FatBiker88
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Help an idiot get the right pannier rack

I got the West Biking 310 pound capacity (which I don't really believe or intend to get close to) because I liked how it was adjustable in multiple ways.

However, the posts and clamps did not line up with my frame's tubes at ALL. To get it to where I could clamp onto the tubes I would have had to bend the posts kind of a lot. It was almost as if the width of the rack was meant for a different kind of frame that had a lot more space between the tubes, like maybe a fat tire bike or something. I don't know if perhaps my bike is some older style that is so different that no rack would work. I have a Trek 8000 from back when they first introduced that ZR9000 zinc/magnesium/aluminum alloy or whatever it was, with thinner metal but fatter tubes. I think it was 2004.

So, I don't mind a rack that clamps to seatpost and frame, but that West Biking one claimed to be Universal, and there was a lot of wiggle room with all the crazy extendable posts and angles and clamps, but it still was never going to match up with the frame unless I literally bent the posts inward towards tire. Are there specific measurements one can use to pick the right pannier rack, like "27" wheels" or "19" frame"? Most of the references I see to "choosing the right rack" just reference "this one is for mountain bikes with no eyelets" and "this one is for touring." I don't see any specific inch measurements or anything.

I'd like a rack that can be extended back and forward, but it's not a deal killer. Don't mind clamping to seatpost and/or frame, also open to mounting on axle, but I'm guessing i'd need a longer axle because there's a lot of stuff down there now with the quick release and trailer hitch and dis brakes, I don't think I have room for bolting more stuff on it as it stands. I do want rack to be relatively largish/rugged and be able to handle a good amount of weight and have pannier attachments (I won't be actually trail/offroad/roughriding with it, more like gravel/dirt/occasional walking it through woods and down rocky ravines, etc.).

Can anyone help me with details I need to look for, like inch measurements or keywords to look for when rack shopping? Or let me know if it's possible that this bike has some unusual frame measurements that make this whole project impossible? Or offer suggestions on racks you think would work (keep in mind that "universal" west biking one was apparently expecting frame tubes much farther apart than mine).

I am unable to attach pics of my bike, but I have plenty of good ones if you're willing to get an email or something. I apparently need to make 10 posts to attach pics or links.

Thanks for any help.
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Old 02-19-21, 08:58 AM
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Look into Tubus racks. Tubus has a lot of fitting solutions and makes high quality racks. Does the frame have eyelets on at the dropouts? What about attachment points on the seatstays? Even if it does not, Tubus may have a solution (e.g., seatpost clamp designed to attach rack stays to it).

Too bad Wayne from thetouringstore.com retired a few years ago. Don't bother with the site now. It's not even close to the same. Wayne would not only respond to emails he would set up a time to (*gasp*) talk to you on the phone. Huge customer service loss to the U.S. touring world.
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Old 02-19-21, 09:40 AM
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It’s kind of humorous that you bought what is, in all seriousness, the most complex carrier rack I’ve seen in more than 30 years of cycling experience, but yet it doesn’t fit a mid-00s MTB, one of the most common bike types around! I think you must have bad luck!

Are you sure you assembled the rack correctly? It seems very unlikely it would be too wide to work. Maybe the strut arms belong on the inboard of where they attach to the deck, and you have them outboard? It looks like, based on the Amazon vid below, that the whole thing came unassembled, so I’m guessing there was plenty of opportunity for something to be fitted incorrectly, and that you should affirm everything before throwing in the towel on this rack.
https://www.amazon.com/vdp/38ae4905e..._qM6BCT3OIFNdX
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Old 02-19-21, 10:04 AM
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Yeah it does seem odd. I did, after my first attempt, screw the posts on the inside instead of the outside. But even when leaving all the clamps very loose, it was clear that when I started tightening things it was going to, out of necessity, bend at MINIMUM the attachment points of the posts to the actual platform of the rack. Either that or bend/kink the post at some point along its length. It's possible it would all just bow out, but it was clear that the angles were just not going to work, no matter where along the length of the frame i tried to do the clamping.

This bike has no eyelets (I'm guessing i'd get one of those seat stay clamps that has the dongle for eyelets on it, but I'd opt for just a seatpost clamp if that's doable). The only thing it has is those brake pad caliper mounting things that are currently empty because it has disc brakes. And since I have the trailer hitch and disc brakes and quick release and all that, the current axle or screw or whatever the thing is called is already pretty much maxed out, I can't get any more real estate to screw stuff on down there without a longer axle, and I'm not even sure how long those are supposed to get, I think I already got a longer one for the trailer hitch.

I'll look at tubu, thanks. So I'm assuming no one thinks there is something intrinsically "off" about this bike's structure that makes it work even less for racks than the average MTB. Is there a standard measurement that is supposed to be the space between the rear frame "v's" that the tire sits between? Like X number of inches between the little forks that sit on axles? I can't imagine that's the case since there are these brake caliper mounts, I mean that has to be industry standard, right? Sorry about my complete lack of knowledge re: nomenclature on these parts/areas of the bike.
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Old 02-19-21, 10:16 AM
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I guess I would get in contact with the people that make the bags you intend to use, and see what they recommend as a good rack to match their bags.
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Old 02-19-21, 10:42 AM
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FatBiker88 Ok, so you’re sure you assembled correctly, and it sounds like you’ve fitted it correctly or at least tried changing strut placement along the seatstays. Did you try adjusting the seatpost mount height? I wonder if it was too low on the seatpost, making the struts too short and rigid to bend?

Regarding widths of the rear triangle, those are determined by hub width (i.e. O.L.D.) and there are indeed different sizes, but besides the fact that you should have a 135mm hub which is one of the most common sizes out there and extremely unlikely to be not supported by this or any other rack, it’s also an in-between size, meaning there are some old standard widths for road bikes and newer standards either narrower or wider, so again, it’s extremely unlikely this or any other rack should not be able to fit, even if with a little bending of the struts.

Now, it’s possible you managed to buy not only the most complicated rack the world has ever seen, but also the sh*ttiest; can rule that out, but again unlikely at this point. It’s also possible that the previous owner of your bike, the one who fitted the disk brakes, also used some crazy hub width and re-spaced your rear triangle, but this too is extremely unlikely, if only because your frame is aluminum, but also because it would have been unnecessary to do.

I would suggest that you take a video of what you’ve got going on, highlight what you think are the problems, post it to YouTube, and then post the link here so that we can give some real advice.
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Old 02-19-21, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I guess I would get in contact with the people that make the bags you intend to use, and see what they recommend as a good rack to match their bags.
Did you purposefully post something that has nothing to do with the OP or not comprehend the OP? (I'm going with the former.) The issue is fitting rack to bike, not bag to rack.
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Old 02-19-21, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
I would suggest that you take a video of what you’ve got going on, highlight what you think are the problems, post it to YouTube, and then post the link here so that we can give some real advice.
Or get to ten posts (not difficult to do) and posts some photos. This is the second thread of his with word salads that are hard to swallow.

I won't be responding further until I see what he's working with.
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Old 02-19-21, 12:38 PM
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I bought this from store new, although your comment about how they maybe "adjusted" spacing intrigues me, it made me remember that it's always bothered me that the rear tire seems slightly off center; at the spot between the frame, you can see in the slideshow I made that the tire is indeed closer to one side than the other. Look especially at the peak of the tire and the frame welds above it. The bike store guys said that's normal and doesn't indicate any issue with frame or wheel. But I wonder if perhaps someone there DID "tweak" the frame for spacing when putting it together. The store, btw, closed up about 15 years ago.

So I uploaded a slide show to youtube. I took several pics looking down at how close the clamps are to the frame at several heights along the frame. The platform/main piece that clamps to the seatpost is very high up, giving me the most flex on these struts. Also note that in the pics, I am pushing firmly against that strut to get it as close to the frame as possible, AND all the screws/bolts are VERY, VERY loose. Once I start tightening the strut to the main platform of the rack, this situation gets MUCH worse. And this issue exists on both sides, it's not that I have the rack off center. In fact, in these pics, the other side would actually be worse.

I appreciate people taking the time to view and help. Since I still can't post links, you can find the video by searching youtube for "Some dumb ahole trying to install a shi**y bike rack on his crap bike", but use the actual swearword.

Thanks all
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Old 02-19-21, 01:38 PM
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I really can’t get any additional, helpful info out of that slideshow. Aside from suggesting to follow the instructional video, which starts with the installation of the rear struts first rather than the front as you did, and which shows the deck in reverse orientation to what you have, the only other suggestion I have is to take the bike and the rack to a bike shop and just have the pros do it.

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Old 02-20-21, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Did you purposefully post something that has nothing to do with the OP or not comprehend the OP? (I'm going with the former.) The issue is fitting rack to bike, not bag to rack.
But he needs to look at bags and racks as a total system. Maybe in the end, he has a wrong rack for his end result.
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Old 02-20-21, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
But he needs to look at bags and racks as a total system. Maybe in the end, he has a wrong rack for his end result.
Uncorrect. From other posts, he’s not planning on adding panniers. And getting panniers to play nice with racks is much easier than getting racks to fit a bike like that.
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Old 02-20-21, 11:46 AM
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i do intend to use panniers, whether store bought or ones i rig up. Right now i have the Ibera Bicycle Bag PakRak Clip-On Quick-Release All Weather Bike Panniers, hoping they work.

So the bike shop guy said he did see where stuff was going to need to be bent around, especially the mounting tabs on the platform of the rack, where the posts are screwed in. They are angled away from the bike for some reason. He also said he's not surprised things need to be bent and mangled a bit, because in his opinion bike racks always need to be massaged a bit to get them right. He showed me how a single piece rack in the store would need to have the seatpost eyelets bent quite a bit once it was centered and level over my frame's eylets by the disc brakes (assuming I got one of those seatpost clamps with the eyelets on it). He said he's had to hacksaw, wrangle, bend, or otherwise get pretty rough with every rack he's installed. He said that while this rack wouldn't be his first choice, he's not shocked that things will need to be bent to get it all lined up right. He said if a weld started separating due to the bending then I should send it back, but otherwise just bend it to fit.

So, there you have it. Thanks for participating everyone.
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Old 02-21-21, 04:31 AM
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I have learned the hard way that anything claimed to be "Universal, " especially if costs way less that a specific fit item, usually ends up costing the same once you buy all the stuff to make it fit what you have. That does not include all the scratches they usually cause.
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Old 02-21-21, 05:44 AM
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A well-designed rack that comes with hardware calculated to help it fit different bikes does not need to be “mangled.” And I would never use one that has been. Rack breakage can cause a catastrophic crash.

Nitto Big front and rear racks. The rear is sized for 700c wheels. (The smaller version is sized for 26” wheels.) One 1/4” spacer on the drive side centered the rear rack perfectly. The long set of stays made fitting and leveling a breeze. Notice that one end of the stays are offset. That allows you to turn them to help them fit wider seat stay attachments. Also provided was a shorter set of stays with the same offset. They are just a little too short for my frame geometry. I had to use a little force to widen the gap to get them on, but the rack is not permanently bent. How do I know? Because when I remove it I have to ge through the same process to reinstall it. Despite what the photo may suggest, the rack is perfectly level.

The front rack uses one 1/4” spacer at each fork eyelet. The two holes allow for up/down adjustment to accommodate fenders if you use them. Two different sized sets of P-clamps were included. In fact, all of the hardware (and more) was included.

I’ve used these racks for 10 seasons of fully-loaded touring over all sorts of terrain and surfaces, including some that have nearly rattled some teeth loose. They are still as strong as ever. When I ship the bike to the start of a tour I can attach both of them in a total of about 25 minutes when taking my time.







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Old 02-21-21, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Uncorrect. From other posts, he’s not planning on adding panniers. And getting panniers to play nice with racks is much easier than getting racks to fit a bike like that.
Why else would he have a rack on his bike if he doesnt want to put something on it? BTW read his post #13!

I seems like you just like to argue for the sake of argument sake!!!!

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Old 02-21-21, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Why else would he have a rack on his bike if he doesnt want to put something on it? BTW read his post #13!

I seem like you just like to argue for the sake of argument sake!!!!
1. Post 13 came after my comment about panniers directed to you. I don’t believe he mentioned panniers previously.

2. in a different thread he mentioned towing something using the rack. I don’t believe panniers were ever mentioned in that thread.

3. Some people use racks solely for trunk bags. I know several people who do.

4. You’re the one being argumentative and being so without any facts are experience related to the matter, which if your M.O.Your responses demonstrate that. Wondering if we have a sock situation here. Just hoping other members learn something. Otherwise, I would not have bothered. I think it’s important to counteract false and misleading information posted on this site.


BTW...Notice the protrusions at the bottom of both racks. Those are there to attach older style panniers with bungee-like attachments. Well thought out.

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Old 02-21-21, 11:29 AM
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Im glad you now understand his situation. It is helpful to just accept other people's ideas, even if you dont agree with them.

And yes I am one of those that use a rack for a trunk pack.
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Old 02-21-21, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Im glad you now understand his situation.
Me?

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Old 02-21-21, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Im glad you now understand his situation. It is helpful to just accept other people's ideas, even if you dont agree with them.
Umm, like the way that you so gracefully accept other people's decisions to ride carbon fiber diamond-framed bikes?
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Old 02-21-21, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Umm, like the way that you so gracefully accept other people's decisions to ride carbon fiber diamond-framed bikes?
And the way other people ride like “racer boys.” Just another example of his tack. I wish BF could/would police this site better. Then again, I’m glad to serve his needs. It’s fun. And in the end, I have racks that fit perfectly and hopefully helped others members gain actual knowledge.
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Old 02-21-21, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Umm, like the way that you so gracefully accept other people's decisions to ride carbon fiber diamond-framed bikes?
Please quote me where I said people should not buy CF bikes. My only contention about them is for the prices charged, they are not the do all, end all, shining zenith that some make them out to be.
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Old 02-21-21, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Umm, like the way that you so gracefully accept other people's decisions to ride carbon fiber diamond-framed bikes?
Just to keep the record straight there are at least 2 CF trikes that I know of, that I would not buy either.
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Old 02-21-21, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Please quote me where I said people should not buy CF bikes. My only contention about them is for the prices charged, they are not the do all, end all, shining zenith that some make them out to be.
I guess self-awareness is not your thing.

I’m not going through your old posts to find all of the examples… It was bad enough that I had to read them the first time.
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Old 02-21-21, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I guess self-awareness is not your thing.

I’m not going through your old posts to find all of the examples… It was bad enough that I had to read them the first time.
I believe he deletes some old posts anyway.
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