Do you prefer solo rides to group rides, and why?
03-04-21, 12:50 PM
#126
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,862
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2951 Post(s)
Liked 3,092 Times
in
1,411 Posts
03-04-21, 12:56 PM
#127
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,333
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20620 Post(s)
Liked 9,286 Times
in
4,599 Posts
No, I'm not making any assumptions, whatsoever.
I'll try to explain this succinctly and then I'll be done with you.
The point of rotating is to ride faster than any of the individuals could sustain on their own. Planting yourself in front for 10 miles is only "helpful" if you assume that your FTP is greater than, oh, let's say the five minute or so power of everybody else. That kind of assumption is probably both pretty arrogant and counterproductive.
If you truly are that much stronger than everyone else, you're a) in the wrong group and b) robbing them of the opportunity to work together and get better.
If it's a false assumption, then you're not only a) robbing them of the opportunity to work together, but you're also b) actually slowing them down by not pulling off the front.
And with that, buh bye.
I'll try to explain this succinctly and then I'll be done with you.
The point of rotating is to ride faster than any of the individuals could sustain on their own. Planting yourself in front for 10 miles is only "helpful" if you assume that your FTP is greater than, oh, let's say the five minute or so power of everybody else. That kind of assumption is probably both pretty arrogant and counterproductive.
If you truly are that much stronger than everyone else, you're a) in the wrong group and b) robbing them of the opportunity to work together and get better.
If it's a false assumption, then you're not only a) robbing them of the opportunity to work together, but you're also b) actually slowing them down by not pulling off the front.
And with that, buh bye.
03-04-21, 01:15 PM
#128
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,333
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20620 Post(s)
Liked 9,286 Times
in
4,599 Posts
We've got guys around here (maybe gals too) that'll take the "hero pull" not to be a hero, but to control the pace. They get on front then ease up anytime there's an uphill. If you ease up on front in the flat or downhill, that won't work. But uphill folks might notice less. Since your draft advantage goes away a lot uphill, they might save more by controlling the front than suffering hanging on as some high w/kg skinny dude rolls over the hill.
I would say do equal rotation on the flats or downhill. If you know a hill is coming up, the bigger boys skip a pull and rest a bit more. Then at the base, bigger boys control pace over the hill. Smaller boys then rest a hair from the extra pulls the bigger boys put them through, bigger boys work a bit up the hill without worry of a drop.
I've started to like rotations better for a workout, I feel about 8 people is perfect. I get bored and almost sleepy sitting in a larger group waiting up to 10min to do a 30 second pull. A rotation actually isn't as efficient, but in a race or workout it forces equal distribution of time. Notice that team time trials they don't rotate constantly, they take pulls based on who the rider is (GC, time triallist, sprinter, etc....).
I would say do equal rotation on the flats or downhill. If you know a hill is coming up, the bigger boys skip a pull and rest a bit more. Then at the base, bigger boys control pace over the hill. Smaller boys then rest a hair from the extra pulls the bigger boys put them through, bigger boys work a bit up the hill without worry of a drop.
I've started to like rotations better for a workout, I feel about 8 people is perfect. I get bored and almost sleepy sitting in a larger group waiting up to 10min to do a 30 second pull. A rotation actually isn't as efficient, but in a race or workout it forces equal distribution of time. Notice that team time trials they don't rotate constantly, they take pulls based on who the rider is (GC, time triallist, sprinter, etc....).
Last edited by WhyFi; 03-04-21 at 01:18 PM.
Likes For WhyFi:
03-04-21, 01:23 PM
#129
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,550
Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3390 Post(s)
Liked 5,408 Times
in
2,562 Posts
In my observations, it's completely dependent on the group. On one of the rides I often do, there are usually just a few people that ride at the front, and it's really just to maintain the steady easy tempo that the ride is designed to be (a social and/or recovery ride). A large majority of the group are happy just to sit in and roll along in a orderly 2-wide train. It's not uncommon for one pair to sit on the front for many miles, and no one looks down on it. If one pair wanted to ride at the front from the start to the "spicy" segments near the end, that would be just fine with the group.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Last edited by Eric F; 03-04-21 at 01:28 PM.
Likes For Eric F:
03-04-21, 01:28 PM
#130
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,333
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20620 Post(s)
Liked 9,286 Times
in
4,599 Posts
In my observations, it's completely dependent on the group. On one of the rides I often do, there are usually just a few people that ride at the front, and it's really just to maintain the steady easy tempo that the ride is designed to be (a social and/or recovery ride). A large majority of the group are happy just to sit in and roll along in a orderly 2-wide train. It's not uncommon for one pair to sit on the front for many miles, and no one looks down on it.
03-04-21, 03:49 PM
#131
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 10,855
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3364 Post(s)
Liked 4,654 Times
in
2,356 Posts
Likes For shelbyfv:
03-04-21, 06:45 PM
#132
Newbie racer
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,377
Bikes: Propel, red is faster
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1566 Post(s)
Liked 1,540 Times
in
957 Posts
This topic needs videos now.
Rotation: was tough to not find a bunch of Fred looking crap with people all strung out
Team time trial (short pulls, but play to strengths and protect either the GC rider OR the sprinter or both):
Scroll to 2:13:00
A nasty little variation for a workout if you've got a decent group is sprint to front from the rear. In soccer practice back in the day we'd call that a "stone run". Did the same thing running. Guy gets to the front from his sprint, you go. On a run track you can do it in two groups. One group is A and one is B. A and B job. You yell "A". A digs for the whole lap and catches B that is jogging. Then B goes. Repeat ad nauseum or until you puke. No incentive to try to hurt the other group with a faster jog as you're about to have to run around.
Rotation: was tough to not find a bunch of Fred looking crap with people all strung out
Team time trial (short pulls, but play to strengths and protect either the GC rider OR the sprinter or both):
Scroll to 2:13:00
A nasty little variation for a workout if you've got a decent group is sprint to front from the rear. In soccer practice back in the day we'd call that a "stone run". Did the same thing running. Guy gets to the front from his sprint, you go. On a run track you can do it in two groups. One group is A and one is B. A and B job. You yell "A". A digs for the whole lap and catches B that is jogging. Then B goes. Repeat ad nauseum or until you puke. No incentive to try to hurt the other group with a faster jog as you're about to have to run around.
Likes For burnthesheep:
03-05-21, 05:33 AM
#134
Senior Member
I have yet to participate in a group ride. This is for a couple reasons. I only know of one bike shop that does group rides. The problem is, I don't consider myself a strong enough rider yet to join them based on their listed speeds in their web site. Plus, I just moved from second to third shift and work most weekends, conflicting directly with their ride times.
Their slowest ride is advertised at 18 mph, and I only average 15 to 16, and don't own any kit yet. Might change that this year.
Their slowest ride is advertised at 18 mph, and I only average 15 to 16, and don't own any kit yet. Might change that this year.
Likes For Melvang:
03-05-21, 07:28 AM
#135
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,225
Mentioned: 67 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2901 Post(s)
Liked 2,125 Times
in
1,305 Posts
The original question could be broken down into some smaller subcategories that could change some answers. While I reap the exercise benefits of cycling, I only do "work out routines" on a stationary bike at the gym.(pre RONA) That included individual workouts and group classes. It worked/works out more efficiently with my overall fitness program. The actual real bike riding is just that. Riding outdoors, looking at scenery and listening to the sounds of nature/the world around me. Nothing more.
03-05-21, 12:48 PM
#136
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,862
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2951 Post(s)
Liked 3,092 Times
in
1,411 Posts
I have yet to participate in a group ride. This is for a couple reasons. I only know of one bike shop that does group rides. The problem is, I don't consider myself a strong enough rider yet to join them based on their listed speeds in their web site. Plus, I just moved from second to third shift and work most weekends, conflicting directly with their ride times.
Their slowest ride is advertised at 18 mph, and I only average 15 to 16, and don't own any kit yet. Might change that this year.
Their slowest ride is advertised at 18 mph, and I only average 15 to 16, and don't own any kit yet. Might change that this year.
Likes For caloso:
03-05-21, 12:59 PM
#137
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,550
Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3390 Post(s)
Liked 5,408 Times
in
2,562 Posts
I have yet to participate in a group ride. This is for a couple reasons. I only know of one bike shop that does group rides. The problem is, I don't consider myself a strong enough rider yet to join them based on their listed speeds in their web site. Plus, I just moved from second to third shift and work most weekends, conflicting directly with their ride times.
Their slowest ride is advertised at 18 mph, and I only average 15 to 16, and don't own any kit yet. Might change that this year.
Their slowest ride is advertised at 18 mph, and I only average 15 to 16, and don't own any kit yet. Might change that this year.
As caloso said, if you average 15mph solo, you'll probably be fine in an group doing 18mph. Even if you're not, pushing your limits to ride with a group that is a bit above your level is a really effective way to boost your fitness. The first few times, you might hang for a little while, but get dropped. You'll be stronger the next time...and the next...
I will also echo caloso's advice...protect your front wheel. Don't let it overlap the rear wheel of the rider in front of you. Also, be smooth with your braking and accelerations. Learning how to ride smoothly in a group is a skill that takes practice.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
03-05-21, 05:45 PM
#138
Senior Member
If you can do 16 on your own, you can do 18 with a group. Once you're vaccinated, I'd encourage you to give it a try. Let people know that you're new to group riding and hang at the back till you're comfortable to take a turn in the rotation. May take a few rides. Be smooth, keep your head up, don't overlap wheels. You'll be fine.
As caloso said, if you average 15mph solo, you'll probably be fine in an group doing 18mph. Even if you're not, pushing your limits to ride with a group that is a bit above your level is a really effective way to boost your fitness. The first few times, you might hang for a little while, but get dropped. You'll be stronger the next time...and the next...
I will also echo caloso's advice...protect your front wheel. Don't let it overlap the rear wheel of the rider in front of you. Also, be smooth with your braking and accelerations. Learning how to ride smoothly in a group is a skill that takes practice.
I will also echo caloso's advice...protect your front wheel. Don't let it overlap the rear wheel of the rider in front of you. Also, be smooth with your braking and accelerations. Learning how to ride smoothly in a group is a skill that takes practice.
But I have been paying attention to ettiquete queues and such while browsing around here and there.
03-06-21, 11:52 PM
#139
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,213
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 880 Post(s)
Liked 858 Times
in
545 Posts
For the benefit of new to paceline folks just want to emphasize this great advice. It's the rider whose front wheel hits that will crash, much less likely the person in front whose rear wheel was hit. It only takes a glancing touch that might be barely noticed by the rider in front.
Likes For Camilo:
03-07-21, 12:02 AM
#140
Habitual User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Altadena, CA
Posts: 5,550
Bikes: 2019 Trek Procliber 9.9 SL, 2018 Storck Fascenario.3 Platinum, 2017 Bear Big Rock 1, 2003 Time VX Special Pro, 2001 Colnago VIP, 1999 Trek 9900 singlespeed, 1977 Nishiki ONP
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3390 Post(s)
Liked 5,408 Times
in
2,562 Posts
For the benefit of new to paceline folks just want to emphasize this great advice. It's the rider whose front wheel hits that will crash, much less likely the person in front whose rear wheel was hit. It only takes a glancing touch that might be barely noticed by the rider in front.
__________________
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
"Swedish fish. They're protein shaped." - livedarklions
Likes For Eric F:
03-07-21, 11:46 AM
#141
don't try this at home.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,665
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 870 Post(s)
Liked 305 Times
in
222 Posts
There's all kinds of group rides in larger urban areas, from race pace to very casual. Perhaps not as much in more rural areas.
I notice that the local cycle club rides can be faster than the advertised pace later in the summer. These rides often have a core group of regulars that get faster during the riding seasons. So if everyone seems to be doing okay, they may pick up the pace. It's probably good to find a ride that sounds a bit too easy, just to get started. Being new to groups and having to do an all-out effort isn't as safe.
But yeah, a couple of mph faster than your usual average is often typical. It's the draft, but also the motivation to not slack off briefly!
I notice that the local cycle club rides can be faster than the advertised pace later in the summer. These rides often have a core group of regulars that get faster during the riding seasons. So if everyone seems to be doing okay, they may pick up the pace. It's probably good to find a ride that sounds a bit too easy, just to get started. Being new to groups and having to do an all-out effort isn't as safe.
But yeah, a couple of mph faster than your usual average is often typical. It's the draft, but also the motivation to not slack off briefly!
Likes For rm -rf:
03-07-21, 02:51 PM
#142
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,463
Bikes: Trek Domane SL6 Gen 3, Soma Fog Cutter, Focus Mares AL, Trek Roscoe 6, Detroit Bikes Sparrow FG, Volae Team, Nimbus MUni
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 725 Post(s)
Liked 1,666 Times
in
855 Posts
Based on my knowledge of it, Audax and Randonnuering can be two different styles of rides. It's beem explained to me that Audax events are where riders ride as a group. Randonnuering is group or self paced, just as long as you hit control points in the given times. Wikipedia has more:
"Euraudax (original form of audax)
Participants in the original form of audax ride in a group, at a steady pace set by a road captain. The group aims to cycle at 22.5 km/h between stops. The route is planned with designated stopping points. In longer audax events the group may ride between 16 and 20 hours in a day before stopping at a designated sleeping location. The goal of the audax is for all group members to finish within the time limit. A support vehicle is allowed to follow each group of riders.
Randonneuring
Randonneuring is similar to the original Audax style in that riders attempt to complete long-distance cycling events. However, instead of riding together in a group, participants are free to cycle at their own pace (French: allure libre), stop or sleep wherever they want and form groups randomly, provided they stay within the time limit.
In some countries (e.g. USA), a clear distinction is drawn between 'Audax' and 'Randonneuring'. In others, such as Australia and Great Britain, the original Audax style is relatively unknown, and 'Audax' and 'Randonneuring' are used interchangeably"
I'm looking forward to our Randonnuering season this year. I truly enjoy our 200k rides, be it alone or with a group. But when alone, I appreciate the beauty and solitude of it.
"Euraudax (original form of audax)
Participants in the original form of audax ride in a group, at a steady pace set by a road captain. The group aims to cycle at 22.5 km/h between stops. The route is planned with designated stopping points. In longer audax events the group may ride between 16 and 20 hours in a day before stopping at a designated sleeping location. The goal of the audax is for all group members to finish within the time limit. A support vehicle is allowed to follow each group of riders.
Randonneuring
Randonneuring is similar to the original Audax style in that riders attempt to complete long-distance cycling events. However, instead of riding together in a group, participants are free to cycle at their own pace (French: allure libre), stop or sleep wherever they want and form groups randomly, provided they stay within the time limit.
In some countries (e.g. USA), a clear distinction is drawn between 'Audax' and 'Randonneuring'. In others, such as Australia and Great Britain, the original Audax style is relatively unknown, and 'Audax' and 'Randonneuring' are used interchangeably"
I'm looking forward to our Randonnuering season this year. I truly enjoy our 200k rides, be it alone or with a group. But when alone, I appreciate the beauty and solitude of it.
Likes For downtube42:
03-07-21, 07:21 PM
#143
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 6,175
Bikes: ...a few.
Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1991 Post(s)
Liked 390 Times
in
221 Posts
Bit late to the party...for long rides, definitely more enjoyable in a group. Short rides, solo is preferable, but a small group, or just one other is perfect.
Last year I did a few 200 km+ rides, and one 300 km+, with great groups, and that made the experience so much more enjoyable. I can't imagine spending 10+ hours on the saddle solo.
Last year I did a few 200 km+ rides, and one 300 km+, with great groups, and that made the experience so much more enjoyable. I can't imagine spending 10+ hours on the saddle solo.
03-07-21, 08:51 PM
#144
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,463
Bikes: Trek Domane SL6 Gen 3, Soma Fog Cutter, Focus Mares AL, Trek Roscoe 6, Detroit Bikes Sparrow FG, Volae Team, Nimbus MUni
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 725 Post(s)
Liked 1,666 Times
in
855 Posts
Bit late to the party...for long rides, definitely more enjoyable in a group. Short rides, solo is preferable, but a small group, or just one other is perfect.
Last year I did a few 200 km+ rides, and one 300 km+, with great groups, and that made the experience so much more enjoyable. I can't imagine spending 10+ hours on the saddle solo.
Last year I did a few 200 km+ rides, and one 300 km+, with great groups, and that made the experience so much more enjoyable. I can't imagine spending 10+ hours on the saddle solo.
03-07-21, 09:00 PM
#145
señor miembro
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 7,346
Bikes: Old school lightweights
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3158 Post(s)
Liked 4,721 Times
in
2,460 Posts
Vintage group rides in the big chainring.
03-07-21, 10:15 PM
#146
Grupetto Bob
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 4,301
Bikes: Bikey McBike Face
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1711 Post(s)
Liked 3,238 Times
in
1,823 Posts
Have to agree that on short rides, less than a couple of hours, solo is preferable because those a more training rides where I like to do sprints, attack certain climbs and cruise on others. I applaud pleasure riders who don’t ‘train’.
For longer rides, I enjoy the company and most importantly how time and the miles fly by. Sitting down for lunch or an after ride beer with friends is the best.
For longer rides, I enjoy the company and most importantly how time and the miles fly by. Sitting down for lunch or an after ride beer with friends is the best.
__________________
Road and Mountain 🚴🏾♂️
Happily mediocre at a low skill activity
Road and Mountain 🚴🏾♂️
Happily mediocre at a low skill activity
03-08-21, 09:07 AM
#148
Junior Member
Solo, because I'm an introvert and so I can ride at my own pace. When it gets lonely, I sing or talk to myself. 
03-08-21, 09:39 AM
#149
Junior Member
[QUOTE=vane171;21946831]On one rare occasion I got passed by a solo rider and I hooked on and we rode like that until we came to town and only reason I didn't go to the front was that the guy wouldn't let up (he knew all along I was on his tail and it turned out he was OK with it). If you expect somebody to take their turn up front, you have to 'step out'.
Those chance encounters and conversations on the road with other solo riders are ace and may be worthy of its own thread on BF: someone comes alongside you, you roll along for x kilometers and do small talk, and then you head your own separate ways, each one feeling a little bit better about the world.
Those chance encounters and conversations on the road with other solo riders are ace and may be worthy of its own thread on BF: someone comes alongside you, you roll along for x kilometers and do small talk, and then you head your own separate ways, each one feeling a little bit better about the world.
03-08-21, 09:43 AM
#150
Junior Member
Yep. There are very things for me that can beat a ride with family and an ice cream afterwards.
