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I'm a fat bastard looking for a steel ride

Old 04-12-21, 10:49 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
This is an easy one. Get a Richey Outback. Well into the comfort zone but has going fast in its heart.
They are super cool and I considered an older model for a brief moment, then dropped it hard since the tire clearance was a joke and the geometry apparently fits up to about 6' or so.
The XL frame has 606mm of stack and 396mm of reach.

I understand when generic china built carbon frames only go up to 590mm or so, but Ritchey not selling anything over a 610mm stack height gravel/adventure bike seems like a big miss for market share. They have said there isnt a big enough market for a larger frame, but pretty much every other brand seems to disagree.

Anyways, 606mm of stack and 396mm of reach doesnt scream 'relaxed' or 'touring' and it definitely seems to lean closer to 'racer position' which is what the OP doesnt want.
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Old 04-12-21, 11:30 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Whenever this topic comes up, I remember a big guy (a tall weightlifter, well over 250 pounds) coming into the bike shop in 1985 who complained that every bike he'd ridden lately felt like "over-cooked spaghetti." Figuring that an aluminum bike might do the job for him, I put him on a Cannondale and sent him out the door for a test ride. He came back 15 minutes later and said, "Sold."

Four or five months later, when he came in for his free tune-up, he told me, "You get any other big guys in here, send them to me. I'll tell them to buy a Cannondale."

Steel bikes are still fine---I have Reynolds 531 and 853 bikes collecting dust in the basement that I keep meaning to clean up so that I can ride them once in a while---but I love my aluminum bikes. Why steel? My guess is internet-driven retro cachet, like vinyl versus digital and tubes versus transistors.
as a big Clydesdale myself, I much prefer the comfort of a steel bike over aluminum on roads. The steel eats up the chatter better and I tend to actual break things made of aluminum over time. I used to ride a Trek Domane aluminum frame with thinner tires (28mm) and it shook the fillings out of my teeth, also contributing to neck and spinal issues due to the harsh vibration.

all that said, wider, tubeless tires (40mm +) at lower pressures helped me a lot with comfort also.
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Old 04-12-21, 11:53 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
They are super cool and I considered an older model for a brief moment, then dropped it hard since the tire clearance was a joke and the geometry apparently fits up to about 6' or so.
The XL frame has 606mm of stack and 396mm of reach.

I understand when generic china built carbon frames only go up to 590mm or so, but Ritchey not selling anything over a 610mm stack height gravel/adventure bike seems like a big miss for market share. They have said there isnt a big enough market for a larger frame, but pretty much every other brand seems to disagree.

Anyways, 606mm of stack and 396mm of reach doesnt scream 'relaxed' or 'touring' and it definitely seems to lean closer to 'racer position' which is what the OP doesnt want.
I'm not just smoking crack here.

1. I'm 5'9, and Richey medium fits me perfectly. I have a Swiss Cross for reference.

2. The Outback is a more relaxed/upright/90's mtb version of the SX.

3. 48mm tires on a drop bar seem way more than adequate unless you know well in advance that you want something funny like the Salsa or Flanimal or whatever.

3.1 Seriously, this tire thing is getting crazy. 2.25" on the drop bar and 3+ on the MTB.

4. We have no clue yet as to his height.

5. He mentioned 100 mile rides, 50 out and back specifically. Seems like something that can cover some ground is needed. I could ride 100 paved miles on a fat bike, but I'd be thinking about shooting myself in the face the whole time.

Anyway, it might all just come down to finding something in inventory more than the perfect bike.
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Old 04-12-21, 01:43 PM
  #29  
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When looking at all the varied stack and reach measurements of gravel/adventure/endurance bikes, I just wouldnt view the Outback's numbers as relaxed and more upright.
As for tire clearance, the new version can fit a wider tire. I mentioned considering the older version which was limited to 40mm, I believe. When you make your chainstays 480mm or whatever it is now, you tend to be able to fit a bigger tire.
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Old 04-12-21, 02:46 PM
  #30  
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There are loads of very good steel bikes out there, many of them mentioned in this thread. I would also suggest having a look at All City and my favorite, Black Mountain Cycles.
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Old 04-12-21, 04:51 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Whenever this topic comes up, I remember a big guy (a tall weightlifter, well over 250 pounds) coming into the bike shop in 1985 who complained that every bike he'd ridden lately felt like "over-cooked spaghetti." Figuring that an aluminum bike might do the job for him, I put him on a Cannondale and sent him out the door for a test ride. He came back 15 minutes later and said, "Sold."

Four or five months later, when he came in for his free tune-up, he told me, "You get any other big guys in here, send them to me. I'll tell them to buy a Cannondale."

Steel bikes are still fine---I have Reynolds 531 and 853 bikes collecting dust in the basement that I keep meaning to clean up so that I can ride them once in a while---but I love my aluminum bikes. Why steel? My guess is internet-driven retro cachet, like vinyl versus digital and tubes versus transistors.

My guess is internet-driven retro cachet,..................That is what I was wondering. That and I have heard so many stories about steel being stronger and not breaking. I cut out that idea long ago when my buddy steel DeRosa fell apart.

As far as aluminum, I have had 3 aluminum bikes. 2 snapped on me during steep climbs. One was a noodle to start, the other partial carbon but snapped at the alum section. Each after 13,000 miles (3 years). The third is the oldest alum frame, Cannondale. Some guys complain about alum and say it is not for long rides but I did 23 centuries in one year on that bike and I still have all my fillings.

I also have a full carbon now with 16,000 and no issues. If I had to race someone up a climb, I'd take the old Cannondale.
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Old 04-12-21, 05:14 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis View Post
You give more of a rip about being on a steel bike to fit in with the touring crowd?

Seriously, why does it have to be a steel bike?
I laughed at this. Thanks.
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Old 04-12-21, 05:18 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
... but you don’t tell us how much you weigh
A lady never tells.
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Old 04-12-21, 05:41 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by UCantTouchThis View Post
The third is the oldest alum frame, Cannondale. Some guys complain about alum and say it is not for long rides but I did 23 centuries in one year on that bike and I still have all my fillings.
.
10,000 loaded touring miles on my Cannondale T 700 over 2 seasons. (1999-2000) Then again, that was before I learned from BF that aluminum sucks for long rides.
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Old 04-12-21, 06:05 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Anatolia View Post
A lady never tells.
Then you make it rather difficult to make a bike recommendation.
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Old 04-12-21, 07:17 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Anatolia View Post
A lady never tells.
Well a lady asking people for help that is directly related to weight does. I love people want help but don't want to give any info to help the people they are looking for help from.

Why ask for help if you won't help us. If you weigh 220lbs that is very different from say weighing 290lbs and that would mean different recommendations from people and different ideas. Bikes don't hold unlimited amounts of weight and not telling us is basically saying "I don't want your help I just want to waste your time" and that isn't cool. If you are embarrassed or something silly like that who really cares it is the internet and you are basically on an anonymous forum unless you give away a ton about yourself and even if you aren't anonymous who the frick cares people are at different stages of life and if people are going to truly attack you for being heavy then they are dumb and you can ignore them. So either help us or bye see ya!
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Old 04-12-21, 07:34 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
You refer to yourself as “fat“ about a dozen times, and you seem to think that this should drive the bike recommendations – but you don’t tell us how much you weigh…?
What do you need to know from this forum?
Originally Posted by Anatolia View Post
I laughed at this. Thanks.
Originally Posted by Anatolia View Post
A lady never tells.
You claim to want advice, but don't give the necessary background info. When asked for that specific info, you give smarmy non-responses.

I've always been kind of proud that I haven't put anyone on my "ignore" list, but you get the honor of being my first.
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Old 04-12-21, 07:55 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
You claim to want advice, but don't give the necessary background info. When asked for that specific info, you give smarmy non-responses.

I've always been kind of proud that I haven't put anyone on my "ignore" list, but you get the honor of being my first.
Pursue post history.
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Old 04-13-21, 01:54 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
You claim to want advice, but don't give the necessary background info. When asked for that specific info, you give smarmy non-responses.

I've always been kind of proud that I haven't put anyone on my "ignore" list, but you get the honor of being my first.
I laughed at this too. So if you miss my response then your loss -- honestly anything posted on this site would be hard to consider 'a loss'. I just want to replace my department store bicycle. That's really what you want to know, isn't it? For my serious response, see my next post. I'm not new to bicycling. As mentioned I already know basically what I want but I posted here to get some additional insight -- yours included. Because I only get so many posts the first week or so, I gotta make 'em count and if leaving some of you in suspense about my weight ruffles some feathers, so be it.

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Old 04-13-21, 01:58 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Pursue post history.
Meaning what? I'm not familiar with this site? I'm a dumbo and can't post? I'm not qualified? Perhaps you can clarify your comment. Or not.
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Old 04-13-21, 02:13 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Anatolia View Post
Meaning what? I'm not familiar with this site? I'm a dumbo and can't post? I'm not qualified? Perhaps you can clarify your comment. Or not.
A. Darn autocorrect. Meant peruse, not pursue.

B. My suggestion was not directed to you.
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Old 04-13-21, 02:16 PM
  #42  
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And another poster gets added tot he ignore list..coy..cute..not so much. If you're going to ask people for help, don't disrespect them with this nonsense.

Koyote ..the ignore list make BF a happier place. BF is just like the greater outside world. Many good people and a moderately small percentage that aren't worth 5 minutes of your time.
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Old 04-13-21, 02:24 PM
  #43  
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At the risk of causing more selection paralysis, you needn't limit yourself to steel bikes. Aluminum is generally a better material for heavier riders because the manufacturers can add material to reinforce the frame without a significant weight penalty. Steel frames, unless they are the 'tank' variety you said you wish to avoid, are generally less durable than aluminum, in my experience. When Kona had a 'Clydesdale specific' series of bikes called the 'Hoss' they had aluminum frames exclusively.

My career in bike shops spanned the era of lightweight steel (late 80s to mid 90s) up to the time that the industry transitioned almost entirely to aluminum (early-mid '00s), and my observation was that incidents of frame failure decreased with the popularity of aluminum frames.

All that being said, the steel bikes listed above are probably all good choices. A Surly, specifically, will probably be the stiffest and most robust frame you can find, but there is a weight penalty... not enough that it should really matter to us larger cyclists, but they are noticeably heavier than comparable aluminum bikes, and even than many other steel bikes.
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Old 04-13-21, 08:13 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Anatolia View Post
I laughed at this too. So if you miss my response then your loss -- the honestly anything posted on this site would be hard to consider 'a loss'. I just want to replace my department store bicycle. That's really what you want to know, isn't it? For my serious response, see my next post. I'm not new to bicycling. As mentioned I already know basically what I want but I posted here to get some additional insight -- yours included. Because I only get so many posts the first week or so, I gotta make 'em count and if leaving some of you in suspense about my weight ruffles some feathers, so be it.
You are asking for help buying a bike and you talk about weight a lot but you don't tell us it has nothing to do with feather ruffling it is all about you not actually wanting help and wasting our time. We need to know your weight to help you find a bike. A fat bastard could mean 360lbs or to some it could be 200lbs and that is a massive f'ing difference and would require vastly different bikes.

If you are new to all of this then be nice, play nice and help us so we can help you otherwise bye, Felicia as the kids say.
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Old 04-13-21, 08:56 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
Welcome to the forums. There are plenty of touring rigs out there, and other variations on the touring or light touring theme. I ride a 2012 Salsa Casserol, though I have changed out the wheels on it twice now. Back in 2012 only Salsa and its QBP sister brand Surly made this type of bike. These days, almost all the big and small brands make this type of bike. Some call it an adventure bike, others a gravel bike, bike packing bike. And of course, if you want something really sturdy, the Surly Long Haul Trucker and Trek 520 are still in production. I am pretty certain the Casserol is out of production, but I believe the Vaya is still in production. All City, another QBP brand makes the Space Horse. Kona makes the Sutra, as well as the Rove. Jamis makes the Renegade. Fairdale makes a bike called the Weekender.
This is not an exhaustive list. I am sure you can find other nice bikes out there.


I liked your initial response and sorry I didn't get back to you. I tried but after setting up a new account, I'm restricted to the number of posts I can commit -- apparently a policy they enforce to cut back on spammers. I'm allowed 5 posts in 24 hours. It's hard not to disagree.

I'm 6'0 and about 300lbs. I'm 54 and have been a pretty avid rider in the past but that was about 5-7 years ago. I owned a Jamis Aurora Elite and put an average of about 2,500 miles per year on it with my max about 4000k. I have a couple centuries under my belt but generally the 40-80 mile range seems to fit my comfort zone (for now -- errr did). I still own that bike but it's taken a beating -- particularly the derailleur hanger -- as I have fallen on that side way too many times than should be allowed. Each time I take it to the shop to have them straighten it out -- they want me there to ensure it doesn't snap off -- and each time they tell me they think this is the last time. The point is I think it's a design flaw with the frame as there are many manufacturers that design that hanger differently -- like bolting them on.. Point is I've decided to move on and buy a new bike and that's not up for debate. I want a new bike for the above reason as well as many others.

Which brings me to frame material. But before I get into it -- because no doubt this is a religious experience for many -- I simply prefer steel. I like the ride. I like it better than my titanium bike and I will never own carbon. As for aluminum -- it's ok -- but I feel everything more. So again, I'm not here to debate frame material if it means choosing between aluminum, steel, carbon, or titanium. It's going to be steel -- and yes -- it's a personal preference but it's mine. I know for some that's not going to stop you from giving your opinion or trying to change mine -- and that's ok -- I'm just simply saying I'm 99.5% sure the next new bike I own will be steel.

There was one poster above who mentioned I should put money into custom wheels with a greater spoke count -- which is an excellent idea IMHO. Another poster included the Jamis Renegade which has now jumped up near the top of my list. This is why I came here to post. I looked all over the Interwebz trying to find out when they discontinued the Aurora Elite and it looks like somewhere in the 2017-18 time frame but I wasn't sure what they replaced it with -- and the Renegade seems to be the model. I was about to call the company until that guy posted that. I'm strongly considering that because of my familiarity with their bikes but I recognize things change from bike to bike and year to year.

Bottom line is I want steel and probably a touring bike -- certainly touring bikish -- so I'm not too concerned about weight. The whole point is stability under load -- and I'm going to put it under load just by hopping on it. I also don't want a bike that's disguised as a tank. Surly LHT comes to mind but I'm not so opinionated that I won't reconsider. Honestly, the choices I'm considering at this point (in no particular order) is the Kona Sutra, the Trek 520, the Jamis Renegade (steel version), the Surly Disc Trucker, Vivente Anatolia (yes that's where I got my name) and even an old Salsa Casseroll if I can find one.

There are other things I want on the bike but this place would go up in flames from zealots on all sides wanting to continue the old debates. So I will try to be clear what I want in a new bike: I want a steel frame that is somewhat responsive and sporty. I'm eying 700x32s but could go fatter I suppose. I doubt I will ever do any actual 'bikepacking' touring but the 'credit card' thing comes into play but things like 'bar end shifters' with simpler mechanics are not important to me. An after market rack for the paneers is fine. I just don't want to ride a tank.

Final thought: Yes, I know I can build a bike to my specs providing I have the frame or frameset. Normally I'd say that's not something I want to do but I have renewed a lot of my parts on two old bikes so I would strongly consider it. But I don't have a lot of time on my hands and even if I did it, it would be lackluster and I'd probably take it into the shop and have them tune it. I also see problems with that approach like a bike either sitting on the stand in the garage for way to long or paying out more dough by having someone else do it and then tell me my stuff doesn't work and I have to buy more new parts. Seems like this route could be problematic -- especially if I want to get out there sooner than later and not necessarily cheaper.

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Old 04-13-21, 08:58 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
You are asking for help buying a bike and you talk about weight a lot but you don't tell us it has nothing to do with feather ruffling it is all about you not actually wanting help and wasting our time. We need to know your weight to help you find a bike. A fat bastard could mean 360lbs or to some it could be 200lbs and that is a massive f'ing difference and would require vastly different bikes.

If you are new to all of this then be nice, play nice and help us so we can help you otherwise bye, Felicia as the kids say.
Yeah, sorry man. I'm on a 5 post limit every 24 hours and the 3 other times I tried to provide details -- I was denied. But I got the last one out.
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Old 04-13-21, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DorkDisk View Post
Jamis Renegade should be on that list.
Sorry I was on a post count and didn't get to respond to you as quickly as I wanted to. This above post is exactly what I was looking for. I bought the 2011 Jamis Aurora Elite and was very happy with it. Very happy. But as you know, they discontinued that line and I wasn't entirely sure what took it's place. Anyway, thank you. Bike brands come and go. Bikes come and go. But when I have a good experience with one, it captures my riding heart.
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Old 04-13-21, 10:23 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
Cannondales - new or used have all kinds of options that would be perfectly robust for even the heaviest of riders. For maximum durability, having custom wheels built is where I would put a good percentage of my budget...
I was also looking at the Masi but they're entirely sold out. Big surprise. Almost everything is.
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Old 04-14-21, 05:47 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Anatolia View Post
I was also looking at the Masi but they're entirely sold out. Big surprise. Almost everything is.
oh yeah, I just heard the story about the ongoing bike shortages yesterday on NPR. Every body is still out of stock of both bikes and parts.

I have 2 vintage California Masi’s. One is a black size 61 Gran Criterium (my first real racing bike. I purchased the frame and fork new back around 1978 or 1979 with my paper route money). The other was a used silver Size 57 Gran Criterium that I got the frame (without fork) used on eBay for under $100 a few years ago. It is actually almost finished. Somebody spread the rear triangle to 130mm to handle modern road hubs. I added a Kestrel 1” carbon fork and the drivetrain is Ultegra 6600/6603 3x10 road triple.
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Old 04-14-21, 01:51 PM
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Flip Flop Rider
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Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
10,000 loaded touring miles on my Cannondale T 700 over 2 seasons. (1999-2000) Then again, that was before I learned from BF that aluminum sucks for long rides.
good thing you found out finally
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