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Wouldn't you get a better workout with a heavier bike ?

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Wouldn't you get a better workout with a heavier bike ?

Old 05-16-21, 12:20 PM
  #226  
Happy Feet
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Not to mention that even in the same group ride, you have a lot of control of how much and what kind of work you do. Working on threshold? Go to the front and take longer/more frequent pulls. Working on VO2max? Attack, get caught, recover, repeat. Working on tempo/endurance? Sit in.
This is someone describing cycling training to improve cycling ability- cycling for cycling sake. It's not general exercise by the average person.

I can imagine the comments one would receive if they showed up to a recreational ride in full kit on a top tier bike and started telling people to do that.

Now, imagine the comments I would receive at that same recreational ride if I said you didn't need that expensive top tier bike, that you could get just as good a workout with a mid grade bike.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-16-21 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 05-16-21, 12:27 PM
  #227  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Actually lots of people are arguing that.

The notion that, if you have a better bike you can work harder to make up the difference is true. However, my point is there is no point spending a lot more to do this if the goal is only exercise.

Again if the goal was only exercise and not cycling for cycling sake, would you suggest an expensive carbon fiber bottle Holder? If not, why an expensive carbon fiber frame or carbon fiber wheels? Seat post, crankset, handlebars...
More nonsense.

This thread isn’t about any of that.

Anyway, people don’t have unlimited money to pursue small differences in weight.

The performance difference between a 16 lb bike and a 18 on one is small. And the difference in price can be huge.

The small performance difference might be worth it if it allows you to win a race. But for most people, it isn’t worth it for a few extra minutes.

If you have oodles of cash, no one cares how you spend it.
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Old 05-16-21, 12:30 PM
  #228  
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Now that I gained 25 pounds, I get a lot better workout. It's almost free!
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Old 05-16-21, 12:32 PM
  #229  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
You aren’t making much sense here either. And you are going on about things most people here already know.

It you want (it’s a choice) to make a particular group ride harder, you can choose to use a heavier bike.

That’s kind of an unusual situation. You should have mentioned it before rather than in an attempt to “win” an argument you lost a few times already.

You don’t need a heavier bike to get a harder workout.
You would think most people know that but...

The question isn't about intentionally choosing a heavier bike for a better workout, it's that a lighter bike doesn't give you one.

The OP made a specous claim based on hyperbole but in a more reasonable frame of reference there is some truth to the fact that a more expensive bike, objectively, within the same parameters, gives one less of a workout because it's easier to pedal.

People have been twisting themselves in knots saying you can always work harder to achieve the same workout - but that just proves my point. You have to work harder on the expensive bike to achieve the same result because you are compensating for the objective mechanical advantage it provides.

That seems obvious but people are still arguing it.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-16-21 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 05-16-21, 12:35 PM
  #230  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
More nonsense.

This thread isn’t about any of that.

Anyway, people don’t have unlimited money to pursue small differences in weight.

The performance difference between a 16 lb bike and a 18 on one is small. And the difference in price can be huge.

The small performance difference might be worth it if it allows you to win a race. But for most people, it isn’t worth it for a few extra minutes.

If you have oodles of cash, no one cares how you spend it.
Not nonsense. You literally just agreed with everything I've been saying for pages now.

Top tier, race oriented bikes are expensive. They provide an advantage in competition. But, if you goal is just exercise they give no advantage over a decent mid grade bike and even work against the goal because they are easier to pedal.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-16-21 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 05-16-21, 12:37 PM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Now, imagine the comments I would receive at that same recreational ride if I said you didn't need that expensive top tier bike, that you could get just as good a workout with a mid grade bike.
What is a “top tier bike”?

There are many people who mistakenly believe a “top tier bike” will make them better cyclists.

Why give people the impression that they “need that top tier bike” when, in most cases, they don’t on a “recreational ride”?

Last edited by njkayaker; 05-16-21 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 05-16-21, 12:44 PM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Now, imagine the comments I would receive at that same recreational ride if I said you didn't need that expensive top tier bike, that you could get just as good a workout with a mid grade bike.
You'd get about the same response if you told someone they didn't need the nice car they just bought and could travel just as well with a 5 yr old Corolla. Most people are smart enough to buy what they want.
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Old 05-16-21, 12:45 PM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Not nonsense. You literally just agreed with everything I've been saying for pages now.
What you went on about is nonsense because it didn’t pertain to what this thread was about and it was against an argument that no one was presenting.
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Old 05-16-21, 12:49 PM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
What is a “top tier bike”?

There are many people who mistakenly believe a “top tier bike” will make them better cyclists.

Why give people the impression that they “need that top tier bike” when, in most cases, they don’t on a “recreational ride”?
Exactly what I have been saying.

Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
You'd get about the same response if you told someone they didn't need the nice car they just bought and could travel just as well with a 5 yr old Corolla. Most people are smart enough to buy what they want.
Sure. But this is a bicycle discussion forum so we discuss such things. Of the two statements, which is more objectively true:

An expensive lightweight bike gives you a better workout.

A decent mid grade bike can give you just as good a workout as the above mentioned bike.

Considering it's exercise for exercise sake and not for cycling as a sport perse.
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Old 05-16-21, 12:51 PM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
On the road, if you increase resistance (ride up a hill) you increase intensity.
Only if you put more effort into it.
Ride in a higher gear, increase intensity.
Only if you put more effort into it.
Ride a bike with higher rolling resistance tires, increase intensity
Only if you put more effort into it.
Ride a bike with more resistance in it's bearings, increase intensity.
Only if you put more effort into it.
Ride a heavier bike, increase intensity.
Only if you put more effort into it.

And guess what? If you put less effort into any of the above situations, you decrease your intensity.
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Old 05-16-21, 12:52 PM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
People have been twisting themselves in knots saying you can always work harder to achieve the same workout - but that just proves my point. You have to work harder on the expensive bike to achieve the same result because you are compensating for the objective mechanical advantage it provides.

That seems obvious but people are still arguing it.
Yes, posters continuously posting over and over that one can get as much or more of a workout on a lighter bike as long as they do X, Y, or Z, does prove your point. (that physics matter) And they aren't about to stop now because, well, BF and riding fast and feather weight bikes, and never give up when disagreeing. Gosh, I love this place!
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Old 05-16-21, 01:00 PM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post

People have been twisting themselves in knots saying you can always work harder to achieve the same workout - but that just proves my point. You have to work harder on the expensive bike to achieve the same result because you are compensating for the objective mechanical advantage it provides.

That seems obvious but people are still arguing it.
You are still arguing it with people making the same argument.

Why?

Why is that argument ok for you to make but not for them?

Why are you making the same argument (in overly long-winded and nonsensical ways) after they made the same argument?

Why?

Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Exactly what I have been saying.
You are arguing against people saying the same thing. Which is bizarre.

Last edited by njkayaker; 05-16-21 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 05-16-21, 01:00 PM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Only if you put more effort into it.

Only if you put more effort into it.

Only if you put more effort into it.

Only if you put more effort into it.

Only if you put more effort into it.

And guess what? If you put less effort into any of the above situations, you decrease your intensity.
Exactly. And notice that none of these have anything to do with the weight or price of the bike.
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Old 05-16-21, 01:12 PM
  #239  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Exactly. And notice that none of these have anything to do with the weight or price of the bike.
Pretty obvious the OP is “pulling our legs.” Guards, to be specific.
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Old 05-16-21, 01:49 PM
  #240  
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Probably. But it’s not the OP that’s perpetuated the nonsense.
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Old 05-16-21, 05:41 PM
  #241  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Yes, posters continuously posting over and over that one can get as much or more of a workout on a lighter bike as long as they do X, Y, or Z, does prove your point. (that physics matter) And they aren't about to stop now because, well, BF and riding fast and feather weight bikes, and never give up when disagreeing. Gosh, I love this place!

This whole argument is ridiculous. I will never be interested in paying top dollar for a bike because I enjoy the middling stock that I have, and the marginal improvements aren't worth the thousands of dollars to me. Note the "to me" part, I don't want to convince anyone to agree with that, nor am I open to entertaining anyone's efforts to convince me my preferences are wrong. But why would anyone think that "you can get the same workout for cheaper" would be the decisive argument to convince someone else that the features of the more expensive bikes that they value aren't worth the money? Value is subjective. Markets set the prices, not arguments on BF.
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Old 05-16-21, 05:55 PM
  #242  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
You are still arguing it with people making the same argument.

Why?

Why is that argument ok for you to make but not for them?

Why are you making the same argument (in overly long-winded and nonsensical ways) after they made the same argument?

Why?


You are arguing against people saying the same thing. Which is bizarre.
I'm not arguing against anyone saying the same thing. I'm telling you you are agreeing with me. But it seems you are upset about that fact so want to tell me I'm wrong to say we agree.
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Old 05-16-21, 06:07 PM
  #243  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Only if you put more effort into it.

Only if you put more effort into it.

Only if you put more effort into it.

Only if you put more effort into it.

Only if you put more effort into it.

And guess what? If you put less effort into any of the above situations, you decrease your intensity.
Originally Posted by caloso View Post
Exactly. And notice that none of these have anything to do with the weight or price of the bike.

Thank You at last for acknowledging these points.

Now, if it's just about the effort, and not about the bike what objective argument can be made for buying a lighter bike over a heavier bike?

I've been asking this question over and over again and, while it appears now everyone is agreeing, I still face ad hominen attacks because of it. If it's so obvious why has my argument been called ridiculous over and over again?

Remember, the basic question of the thread is why buy a lighter bike when your goal is exercise? That's the actual question the OP posted, in a specious way... but when put forth in a more realistic comparison, as I've been doing throughout, the answer appears to be, none.

There is no benefit to paying considerably more for less weight. It actually appears to work against the goal because you have to do more to equal the workout effort of the heavier bike. Either riding faster, in a higher gear or for a longer distance.

The competitive edge a light top tier bike gives one in competition does not translate into the same edge for general exercise..You want your cake and to eat it too.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-16-21 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 05-16-21, 06:18 PM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I'm not arguing against anyone saying the same thing. I'm telling you you are agreeing with me. But it seems you are upset about that fact so want to tell me I'm wrong to say we agree.
​​​​​​????

How is the light in that hole you keep digging?
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Old 05-16-21, 06:21 PM
  #245  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
​​​​​​????

How is the light in that hole you keep digging?
It's crystal clear. Are you disagreeing with a point I made or just disagreeing with me to disagree?

I'm OK with us agreeing. If you do disagree with a point, provide a logical argument against it and I'll consider it.
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Old 05-16-21, 06:23 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Remember, the basic question of the thread is why buy a lighter bike when your goal is exercise? That's the actual question the OP posted, in a specious way... but when put forth in a more realistic comparison, as I've been doing throughout, the answer appears to be, none.
You keep murdering words to repeating what people were already saying while suggesting they didn't.

Why?
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Old 05-16-21, 06:32 PM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
People ... saying you can always work harder to achieve the same workout - but that just proves my point. You have to work harder...
???

How does repeating the same thing that people already said "prove your point"?

Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
That seems obvious but people are still arguing it.
???

You are saying the same thing as those people.

How is it that they are "still arguing it" but you aren't?

Why are you repeating something that people already said that is "obvious"?

Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I've been asking this question over and over again and, while it appears now everyone is agreeing, I still face ad hominen attacks because of it. If it's so obvious why has my argument been called ridiculous over and over again?
???

You are repeating what people already said.

What is ridiculous is you repeating the same thing other people said as some contrary argument.

Last edited by njkayaker; 05-16-21 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 05-16-21, 06:37 PM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Next up--can more angels dance on the head of a $250 pin vs. a $500 pin?
what's the best chain lube?
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Old 05-16-21, 07:04 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I've been asking this question over and over again and, while it appears now everyone is agreeing, I still face ad hominen attacks because of it. If it's so obvious why has my argument been called ridiculous over and over again?
What color is the sky on your planet?
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Old 05-16-21, 07:11 PM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
What color is the sky on your planet?

Ultimately, if our only concern was the "quality" of the workout at the cheapest price, I don't think we'd be on bicycles. We'd be running uphill barefoot in the grass carrying heavy objects.
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