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Giant Warrant issue on brand new bike

Old 05-06-21, 09:50 AM
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gravelED
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Giant Warranty issue on brand new bike

Short story: Brand new 2021 Giant Revolt has spun bottle cage rivnut, Giant warranty is offering $30 labor credit to LBS to repair or possibly the option of a 2020 frameset replacement (no choice in color option).

Long story: I picked up a 2021 Giant Revolt Advanced 2 last week that I had ordered last year (I think I ordered it in August 2020). What I liked about this bike when I ordered it was the drivetrain spec'd (GRX 2x), the frame color (Desert Sage) and the price ($2600). I was so stoked when I got the bike home, I quickly removed and replaced the wheels (super heavy, but I knew that) and handlebars with my own (Specialized Hover Flare), installed my XT pedals, degreased and waxed the chain, got the fit dialed in then went to install my bottle cages only to have one of the bolts spin (rivnut spun in frame) Craaapppp!!!! Took it back to LBS and they immediately submitted a warranty claim. Five days later, Giant came back with two options. 1. $30 for labor to drill out and install new rivnut or 2. Possibly replace the frame with a 2020 frameset (not sure what color option). LBS is really good and isn't happy with either option went back to Giant to explore other options.

I'm not really happy with either option. What would you do?

FWIW, I also reached out to a local carbon bike frame repair specialist and they quoted me $100 to repair. They said the rivnut replacement is super easy, the issue is with drilling out the bolt, that requires skill and proper tools.

At this point, I'm tempted to just go with option 3 and have the repair done on my own dime by this repair specialist. (not comfortable with the LBS doing it), but feel that Giant hasn't really done much. Shouldn't they offer a brand new replacement bike or a brand new frameset as a replacement, not a 2020 model?

Last edited by gravelED; 05-06-21 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 05-06-21, 09:56 AM
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indyfabz
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The first thing I would do is read the warranty to determine what I am entitled to.
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Old 05-06-21, 09:59 AM
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Excellent point Indyfabz! I'm going to go read the warranty now, Thanks!!!
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Old 05-06-21, 10:02 AM
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Repair

Be polite and send Giant the quote from the local repair place.

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Old 05-06-21, 10:09 AM
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gravelED
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Here is what I found for the Giant warranty:

"Unless otherwise provided, the sole remedy under the above warranty, or any implied warranty, is limited to the replacement of defective parts with those of equal or greater value at the sole discretion of Giant."

I would think that a 2020 frameset doesn't meet that criteria in terms of value, sure it might be the same but from a value standpoint it wouldn't be "equal or greater value". I'm going to ask for a 2021 replacement frameset which I think is fair. Its not like I crashed a used bike and trying to get it warrantied, this is a brand new bike.
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Old 05-06-21, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Barry2 View Post
Be polite and send Giant the quote from the local repair place.

Barry
Thats where I would start, possibly mentioning the fact that labor rates in different markets can differ wildly. Heres a great example: The last time I had a bike professionally boxed in Philadelphia for shipping to Missoula for a tour the going rate was $75. Packing the bike for return shipping from Missoula was only $46.
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Old 05-06-21, 10:30 AM
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If the threaded insert just spins should be an easy fix if the shop and the rivet tool. If its an aluminum frame Id use some green wicking Loctite under the flange and reset with the tool. If carbon Id use a very thin acrylic glue. Drilling it out and open the hole and make it harder to set without spinning. When Ive done new ones years ago on thinner aluminum material than a bike wed use a high strength epoxy on the threaded insert.

Go get a cost from the shop. If they are a Giant Dealer they should know how to handle it. If they are a good dealer theyll stand up for you.
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Old 05-06-21, 10:40 AM
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You paid top dollar for this years model. You shouldn't have to put up with a older frame that's already lost value, it's like a car dealership trying to give you a older car at new car price!!!. Option 4 full refund.
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Old 05-06-21, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by cbrstar View Post
Option 4 full refund.
And wait how long for another new competitively-priced bike in the size and color I want? (You do realize there are bike shortages, right?) We're talking $100 tops, and possibly only $70. If I wanted to have the frame specialist do the work rather than the LBS I would propose to Giant that it provide me with a $30 general labor credit at the LBS, fork out the $100 to have the specialist do the work and enjoy the bike I had waited so long for. IMO, something like this is not worth making a federal case over, especially in these times.
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Old 05-06-21, 11:19 AM
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Giant may be actually offering the 2020 frame as a replacement because they still have some on hand and have no 2021 frames on hand.
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Old 05-06-21, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
And wait how long for another new competitively-priced bike in the size and color I want? (You do realize there are bike shortages, right?) We're talking $100 tops, and possibly only $70. If I wanted to have the frame specialist do the work rather than the LBS I would propose to Giant that it provide me with a $30 general labor credit at the LBS, fork out the $100 to have the specialist do the work and enjoy the bike I had waited so long for. IMO, something like this is not worth making a federal case over, especially in these times.
Bike shortage or not it's a manufactures defect and we're not talking about about a $200 Walmart bike. This guy already paid $2600 and he shouldn't have to pay out of pocket to fix THIER mistake. Giant should at the very least have a certified carbon fiber repair shop fix this for him. A used frame or $30 bucks doesn't cut it. Lets say the LBS drills and taps a new hole but this results in the frame failing down the road. If he's having this much trouble now do you think they are going to help him 6 months later? I know how corporations work it will be "Sorry but we believe you abused the frame". "You didn't have a certified carbon fiber facility repair this and we can't warranty it".
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Old 05-06-21, 11:34 AM
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Loose rivnuts like that are very common and easy to fix, and any competent shop should have to tool to do it. It takes 2 min to do. It's a $5 fix not a $100 fix. Nothing should need to be drilled out. It just needs to be tightened.
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Old 05-06-21, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by cbrstar View Post
A used frame or $30 bucks doesn't cut it.
That's for the OP to decide for himself. I have already noted what I would propose. You would certainly be free to pursue your own course, even if it got you nowhere.
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Old 05-06-21, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by cb400bill View Post
Giant may be actually offering the 2020 frame as a replacement because they still have some on hand and have no 2021 frames on hand.
Zactly.

And there are times to be practical. This is one of them, IMO, hate for evil corporations notwithstanding.
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Old 05-06-21, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
Loose rivnuts like that are very common and easy to fix, and any competent shop should have to tool to do it. It takes 2 min to do. It's a $5 fix not a $100 fix. Nothing should need to be drilled out. It just needs to be tightened.
Yes, indeed. In fact, a bolt, a nut, a washer, and two wrenches are all that are needed. It barely counts as a repair, since the technique used to fix the rivnut in place is identical to that which was used to install the rivnut at the Giant factory.

.

Even though the shop and the Giant rep have already agreed to treat it as a warranty matter, I suggest repairing it yourself, because it's a good skill to have in case you encounter the problem again with your bike or another. If you can fix a flat, you can do this. Just pay attention to the advice in the video about not overtightening the rivnut. Tighten it only to the point where the rivnut stops turning in the hole.
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Old 05-06-21, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
Loose rivnuts like that are very common and easy to fix, and any competent shop should have to tool to do it. It takes 2 min to do. It's a $5 fix not a $100 fix. Nothing should need to be drilled out. It just needs to be tightened.
The bolt spins in place, you can neither loosen or tighten it. I believe the repair would require drilling out the bolt to gain access to the rivnut to tighten.

Last edited by gravelED; 05-06-21 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 05-06-21, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by cbrstar View Post
Bike shortage or not it's a manufactures defect and we're not talking about about a $200 Walmart bike. This guy already paid $2600 and he shouldn't have to pay out of pocket to fix THIER mistake. Giant should at the very least have a certified carbon fiber repair shop fix this for him. A used frame or $30 bucks doesn't cut it. Lets say the LBS drills and taps a new hole but this results in the frame failing down the road. If he's having this much trouble now do you think they are going to help him 6 months later? I know how corporations work it will be "Sorry but we believe you abused the frame". "You didn't have a certified carbon fiber facility repair this and we can't warranty it".
Is it more important for the bike owner to have a bike to ride this summer, or to have it fixed or replaced as he likes it?
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Old 05-06-21, 12:01 PM
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Have the shop fix it with the understanding that if they jack it up, you get a frame replacement.
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Old 05-06-21, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by gravelED View Post
The bolt spins in place, you can neither loosen or tighten it. I believe the repair would require drilling out the bolt to gain access to the rivnut to tighten.
See post no. 15 above. The video shows exactly how to fix a rivnut that "spins in place, you can neither loosen or tighten it." (To clarify: in your bike, it's the rivnut that's spinning in the frame, not the bolt spinning in the rivnut).
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Old 05-06-21, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
See post no. 15 above. The video shows exactly how to fix a rivnut that "spins in place, you can neither loosen or tighten it." (To clarify: in your bike, it's the rivnut that's spinning in the frame, not the bolt spinning in the rivnut).
Maybe I'm describing the problem wrong. The bolt cannot be removed. When you attempt to tighten or loosen the bolt, it just spins with the rivnut. The video makes the repair look easy, but in this case with the bolt fixed in place it looks like the repair requires drilling out the bolt.
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Old 05-06-21, 12:48 PM
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I had a bad pedal crank. Shop drilled it out then placed a heli coil. Worked great on a pedal. Thinking a water bottle rivet can easily be drilled out and replaced.
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Old 05-06-21, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by gravelED View Post
Maybe I'm describing the problem wrong. The bolt cannot be removed. When you attempt to tighten or loosen the bolt, it just spins with the rivnut. The video makes the repair look easy, but in this case with the bolt fixed in place it looks like the repair requires drilling out the bolt.
Thanks very much for the clarification. That's a bit trickier. If the problem occurred after first removing the bolt and then tightening it to secure the cage in place, you might have overtightened the bolt, but no matter. (For future reference, always grease the threads of the bolts before installing the bottle cage.)

When I worked in bike stores many years ago, I fixed a few seized bolt/rivnut problems without resorting to drilling, but you probably should just let the shop and Giant come up with a fix that's satisfactory to you.

If you're curious, the fix consisted of (1) dripping oil into the bolt/rivnut junction to facilitate the bolt's breaking free; (2) grabbing the flange of the rivnut by carefully tightening a Vice-Grip on it, just firmly enough to keep it from spinning but not enough to extensively deform it; and (3) carefully backing the bolt out of the rivnut. I used strips of electrical tape to protect the bike's paint job from the Vice-Grip, of course. Once the bolt was out, it was easy to fix the rivnut as detailed in the video I posted earlier.
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Old 05-06-21, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gravelED View Post
Maybe I'm describing the problem wrong. The bolt cannot be removed. When you attempt to tighten or loosen the bolt, it just spins with the rivnut. The video makes the repair look easy, but in this case with the bolt fixed in place it looks like the repair requires drilling out the bolt.
Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Thanks very much for the clarification. That's a bit trickier. If the problem occurred after first removing the bolt and then tightening it to secure the cage in place, you might have overtightened the bolt, but no matter. (For future reference, always grease the threads of the bolts before installing the bottle cage.)

When I worked in bike stores many years ago, I fixed a few seized bolt/rivnut problems without resorting to drilling, but you probably should just let the shop and Giant come up with a fix that's satisfactory to you.

If you're curious, the fix consisted of (1) dripping oil into the bolt/rivnut junction to facilitate the bolt's breaking free; (2) grabbing the flange of the rivnut by carefully tightening a Vice-Grip on it, just firmly enough to keep it from spinning but not enough to extensively deform it; and (3) carefully backing the bolt out of the rivnut. I used strips of electrical tape to protect the bike's paint job from the Vice-Grip, of course. Once the bolt was out, it was easy to fix the rivnut as detailed in the video I posted earlier.
Agreed. That is a much more challenging fix, though it is something that can be fixed.

I am dealing with a similar issue on my Argon. The rivnut for the under BB cable cover is loose, so I am unable to unscrew it and remove the cover. But I was able to use the cover to gain leverage on the screw to remove it enough that I can change cables as needed, albeit with a bit extra work. Also, the bolts for an external Di2 battery have corroded in place so the rivnuts just spin. Since I don't run Di2, I don't worry about that.

Last edited by topflightpro; 05-06-21 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 05-06-21, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by gravelED View Post
Maybe I'm describing the problem wrong. The bolt cannot be removed. When you attempt to tighten or loosen the bolt, it just spins with the rivnut. The video makes the repair look easy, but in this case with the bolt fixed in place it looks like the repair requires drilling out the bolt.
You might try a VERY thin screwdriver. Try wedging the screwdriver between the bolt head. Then, while the screwdriver is wedged, try turning out the bolt. Wedging with the screwdriver might exert enough force to hold the rivnut in place while turning the bolt. Something like a screwdriver made for the small screws for eyeglasses might work.

Last edited by freeranger; 05-06-21 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 05-06-21, 03:24 PM
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find the hex head male socket [ 3mm? ] in 3/8" dr. Put the hex socket onto an impact air gun. Reverse the ugga duggas, & let the impact from the reversed ugga duggas decouple the two.
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