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Tour de-france type of riders, what's their deal?

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Tour de-france type of riders, what's their deal?

Old 05-11-21, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by surak
If someone's max average power for 2 minutes is greater than half their max average 1 minute power, then no they would have spent more energy over 2 minutes. To my knowledge there's no one who can average the same max average power for 1 minutes as they can for 2, just like no one has the same max 1 second power as 30 second.

So you're saying that the marginal difference between 150 minute max power and 151 minute max power is more than 1/150? And you know this how?
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Old 05-11-21, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SpeedyBlueBiker
I guess because that's just not how I roll. My "glory days" are all in the rearview mirror and in a different sport.
Do what works for you. Personally, I don't give a damn what non-cyclists think of the clothing I wear when I ride.
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Old 05-11-21, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by bOsscO
We just watched 'Stand by Me' with our 12-y/o son and I forgot about the pie-eating contest scene. Classic.
Complete and total BARF-O-RAMA!
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Old 05-11-21, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
So you're saying that the marginal difference between 150 minute max power and 151 minute max power is more than 1/150? And you know this how?
Training is not simply energy expenditure of a single ride. If someone expends marginally more energy on one ride in this silly example that people who've never trained keep trying to prop up as some kind of logical proof to the superiority of a heavy bike, that does not mean they'll accumulate more of a training workload over a week, a month, or a year. Again, if someone wants a certain workout, differences in equipment only matters if it prevents one from pushing as hard as they want. A body can only do what it can do, thus indoor training is now a popular option because it removes the complications of traffic, terrain, weather, and other limiting factors to how much one can push their body.
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Old 05-11-21, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by surak
Can't tell if you're doubling down to stay true to your self-professed nickname, but you're throwing around terms like training volume while clearly missing where the holes are to your argument.

As people who actually train and understand what it means to do so have already pointed out repeatedly, one can achieve the same workout on a lighter bike as a heavier bike as a completely stationary bike, because training effect is effort X time. That by itself should show you how pointless using distance is as a measure of exercise.

A person who is bizarrely forced in your ill-conceived thought experiment to only ride a particular fixed distance can go harder on the lighter bike because they will finish their workout in less time, whether they choose to go all-out or not. They won't magically find extra power to go harder on a heavier bike unless that power is from the heavier bike's battery pack.

One of you is talking about training, the other is talking about exercise.

Serious case of talking past each other.

You're right, "serious" training is not going to be concerned with calorie burn per mile, a bike commuter who wants to lose weight without increasing the distance of his commute might.
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Old 05-11-21, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
One of you is talking about training, the other is talking about exercise.

Serious case of talking past each other.

You're right, "serious" training is not going to be concerned with calorie burn per mile, a bike commuter who wants to lose weight without increasing the distance of his commute might.
What prevents the faster commuter on a lighter bike from riding an extra couple blocks in the time they saved? Another arbitrarily imposed restriction in a thought experiment to favor the heavier bike...
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Old 05-11-21, 12:49 PM
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To sum up..
1. the point of a lighter weight bike (aka race bike) is to allow a rider to complete a set distance in the shortest amount of time possible, using the least amount of effort possible.
2. a lighter vs heavier weight bike should not have much impact on the quality of a structured training workout
3. a heavier weight bike can yield its user a tiny bit more exercise, if that rider's rides are of a set distance. Someone in a race however, isn't looking for more exercise, they want to complete the race distance as quickly as possible (leaving out the goals of domestiques).
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Old 05-11-21, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
To sum up..
1. the point of a lighter weight bike (aka race bike) is to allow a rider to complete a set distance in the shortest amount of time possible, using the least amount of effort possible.
2. a lighter vs heavier weight bike should not have much impact on the quality of a structured training workout
3. a heavier weight bike can yield its user a tiny bit more exercise, if that rider's rides are of a set distance. Someone in a race however, isn't looking for more exercise, they want to complete the race distance as quickly as possible (leaving out the goals of domestiques).
You forgot the most important part...

Lighter = faster = funner
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Old 05-11-21, 01:01 PM
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dude wtf happened to this thread
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Old 05-11-21, 01:03 PM
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Wow, after reading through the thread, I never expected the bicycling world to be so tribal and polarized! Really, that's all I can say. It makes me think back to the speech that Cyrus gave before he was capped.


Last edited by seypat; 05-11-21 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 05-11-21, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
You forgot the most important part...

Lighter = faster = funner
I don't know.. then I suppose if you think cycling is fun, you'd want the heavier bike so it takes longer to finish.
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Old 05-11-21, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
I struggle with the ability to "just ride". The intent might be to take it easy after a hard couple of days, but my years of being a racer-boy programmed my brain to always ride with an intent - always get better. I tend to ride with people who are also riding with a fitness/workout intent. Maybe I need some different friends - LOL.
I'm generally pushing, but there have been rides where I just wanted to see where a road went, obviously decades ago before everything was built up, or riding somewhere out of the area. The shorter repeat rides tend to turn into average speed, even in my old age.

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Old 05-11-21, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
...And have you ever seen the Big Bang Theory scenes on Youtube Bike Forum threads with the laugh track edited out? You can't even figure out which parts are supposed to be the jokes. It's all bland insults.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Old 05-11-21, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by surak
What prevents the faster commuter on a lighter bike from riding an extra couple blocks in the time they saved? Another arbitrarily imposed restriction in a thought experiment to favor the heavier bike...

Literally everybody who has talked about that has noted that. This group of people who are claiming that heavier bikes are "better" for fitness is basically a figment of your imagination. The only thing people have generally agreed on is that heavier bikes might burn more calories per mile, but that's an entirely trivial point.

There was an entire thread on this and outside of OP, pretty much everybody crapped all over the idea of "heavy bike=better workout".

And what prevents the rider of a lighter bike from riding in a gear that's too high for the route? And what prevents everyone from flying the route in a jet plane? And what prevents the rider of either bike weight from gorging on jelly donuts the entire route?
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Old 05-11-21, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
To sum up..
1. the point of a lighter weight bike (aka race bike) is to allow a rider to complete a set distance in the shortest amount of time possible, using the least amount of effort possible.
2. a lighter vs heavier weight bike should not have much impact on the quality of a structured training workout
3. a heavier weight bike can yield its user a tiny bit more exercise, if that rider's rides are of a set distance. Someone in a race however, isn't looking for more exercise, they want to complete the race distance as quickly as possible (leaving out the goals of domestiques).
4. How did this crap thread evolve into part 2 of another crap thread that was going a couple weeks ago?
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Old 05-11-21, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
4. How did this crap thread evolve into part 2 of another crap thread that was going a couple weeks ago?
crap begets crap
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Old 05-11-21, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
I don't know.. then I suppose if you think cycling is fun, you'd want the heavier bike so it takes longer to finish.
The duration of the ride is going to be similar, regardless of the bike weight, as limited by the time I have available. It's about the velocity. More fast is more fun.
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Old 05-11-21, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
The duration of the ride is going to be similar, regardless of the bike weight, as limited by the time I have available. It's about the velocity. More fast is more fun.
Just tell your government that it's fun to use a bicycle & they'll make the price tag very heavy.
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Old 05-11-21, 05:50 PM
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Possibly the op has poked the bear here(many here as he has described). Personally, each to their own, its your money, but where I live, there are groups of cyclists with all the kit who ride in large peletons(abusing many road rules, such as safe following distances etc) and do frustrate the motorists that get caught up in their antics of taking up the whole road etc. For me as a cyclist, that puts me in part of the hate group for some of these motorists who see myself when cycling alone as someone to take out their anger on.

and just quietly, riding around on a minimum weight(tour de farce) road bike.........its like driving a formula one car on public roads, not really fit for comfort, purpose.
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Old 05-11-21, 05:56 PM
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i dont mind riding around on the lite weight bicycle. It's like a horse trying to drive the f1 sometimes. Clunky, heavier, & funny looking.
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Old 05-11-21, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
Do what works for you. Personally, I don't give a damn what non-cyclists think of the clothing I wear when I ride.
As long as they can see it, I'm happy. Hence I tend to go for single color jerseys in colors that nature does not generally provide in 2' by 3' rectangles, rather than multiple colors which make outlines harder to see. No 'Earthtones' for this boy. No leafy greens. No 'dry vegetation' browns.
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Old 05-11-21, 06:54 PM
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Have a jersey made with a printed job application on the front & rear. No one will come close to you, EVER!
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Old 05-11-21, 07:18 PM
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I'm an old fat slow guy. Built for comfort, not for speed.

Nonetheless, I'm addicted to watching the Tour De France (and Orioles/Ravens/Caps). So wife buys me sports jerseys, That includes TDF jerseys, Yellow, Green, Red Polka Dot. She gets the biggest size, I'm surprised at how strong the zippers are.

I look like the Michelin man.

People often mistake me for Lance Armstrong or Peter Sagan

Sorry, I mean no one has ever mistaken me for Lance Armstrong or Peter Sagan.

It's a bicycle shirt. I wear it cycling, makes the wife happy.
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Old 05-11-21, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
I see a lot of cyclists, but very few who wear replica kits of professional teams. That said, I guess to the unknowing eye, the kit of a local club or race team is undiscernible from a pro team kit.
Originally Posted by SpeedyBlueBiker
True that! To the non-cyclist the local kit might look like that. Sure hope I'm not perceived that way!
You are.
To a non-cyclist, spandex / bibs + jersey, on a drop-bar bike = Lance Wanna-be, doesn’t matter if it’s team Kit, club kit, or just off-the-rack.

You assume they’re savvy to the distinctions, but to them, you’re “Just some guy on a bike, in the road “
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Old 05-11-21, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by drbarney1
While I question the tight fitting shirts and shorts which might have a minuscule aerodynamic advantage approaching that of wearing a g-string, I am open to considering something as functional as cycling shoes.
When I returned to riding as an older adult, I started off in regular shorts and tee shirts. Then I tried bike shorts and found them to be much more comfortable. Now I never wear anything else. It has nothing to do with aerodynamics. It's purely about comfort.

I still ride in tee shirts at times if just riding around the neighborhood for an hour or so in the evening, but for longer rides during the day I find that jerseys are much better at wicking sweat. In my climate a tee shirt becomes soaking wet fairly quickly. At which point it feels a lot tighter than any jersey I've ever worn. And the rear pockets on jerseys are handy on longer rides. And even on shorter rides in pollen season when it's real nice to have kleenex handy.

Shoes are a must for me because I need the stiff soles. I simply can't keep my feet flat on my own accord. If you don't have that problem and you aren't going for speed I think they're the least necessary item of biking specific gear.
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