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Should clincher tires have inner tubes?

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Should clincher tires have inner tubes?

Old 06-13-21, 03:47 PM
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geepondy
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Should clincher tires have inner tubes?

EDIT: Removed tire and added picture of punctured tube

EDIT. Looked closer and found a tube but still strange. Tire looks pristine but won't take a lick of air. Are these tires not my best option for puncture resistance? Living by myself and not being dependent on others, this is an important attribute to me.


Earlier this year I had my bike shop swap out bike stock tires for Continental Grand Prix 4 (700x32) clincher tires as that what was recommended in this forum for a more puncture resistant tire. Today I got a rear flat and being just three miles from home, pushed the bike back. I examined the tire and could not see any visible damage and then when attempting to fill the tire, would not take air at all, like pump not even attached. Upon then examining the situation, I realized there was no innertube present. I assume the reason the tire did not take air was perhaps the seal was broken? Also as the valve stem is not part of an inner tube, is it somehow sealed against the rum?

I'm not really up on modern tires but shouldn't clincher tires have an innertube? How the heck would I have repaired this on the road? I'm bringing the bike back to the shop and ask why wasn't an innertube used in the tire changeover but am trying to get more versed on how these setups work beforehand so any insight would be appreciated. The bike is a 2019 Canoondale Synapse. Thanks for any thoughts.

Last edited by geepondy; 06-14-21 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 06-13-21, 03:50 PM
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There must be a tube in the tire, look again. Either that or a bunch of liquid sealant.
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Old 06-13-21, 03:58 PM
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chaadster
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Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
There must be a tube in the tire, look again. Either that or a bunch of liquid sealant.
There needn’t necessarily be liquid sealant in a tubeless setup.
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Old 06-13-21, 04:09 PM
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Might be tubeless. I'd think your mechanic that put the tire on for you will know. So that's where you really need to get the information specific to your wheel and tire from since we can't possibly know for certain what he or she did.

If it is tubeless and your tire beads came off the bead seat, then you will have some issues unless you have a very high CFM coming from your pump/compressor and through the air chuck.

Might suggest you try a CO2 inflator if you for some reason don't want to go back to the shop.
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Old 06-13-21, 04:53 PM
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geepondy
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Edited original post and yes I found a tube but still strange as tire looks pristine but won't take a lick of air.
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Old 06-13-21, 05:21 PM
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Inner tubes burst for more reasons than just punctures. The tire might in fact be in perfect condition with no puncture.

You need to pull one side of the tire off the rim. Mark the valve stem position on the tire first. Then remove the tube. Mark it or remember how it is oriented. Lay in on top of your tire, then try to put some air in and see where it might be leaking.

Once you find that location, then is it on the tread side? The side wall or the spoke channel side? Once you know that you can start pondering why it flatted.

Any chance it's been several weeks since you had the tire replaced and maybe it was at too low a pressure for riding and you cut the tube with the rim while rolling on it?

Any how... I've probably had more flats in the last 15 or so years that were my installation errors than I've had flats from punctures.


If you aren't the DIY type, then you need to go back to the shop. No embarrassment for that if that's you. Some people don't need to do their own DIY. It's not as simple as those that have lifelong skill doing it make it out to be.
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Old 06-13-21, 05:33 PM
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This might help you.
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Old 06-13-21, 05:44 PM
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It's probably either a massive gash in the tube, or a failure where the stem joins the tube. Pull the tube, try to inflate when it's out of the tire. The cause will make itself obvious. Hopefully it can be patched.
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Old 06-13-21, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by geepondy View Post
Edited original post and yes I found a tube but still strange as tire looks pristine but won't take a lick of air.
I am having trouble with visualization. TIRE WON'T TAKE A LICK OF AIR. Did you lick the valve stem before putting the pump head on? Air won't go into the valve? Air goes into valve but leaks out of the tire? Or does the tube leak? ... I'm not seeing it.
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Old 06-13-21, 05:47 PM
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Pump issues?
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Old 06-13-21, 06:49 PM
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Not a good verbalization. Tire takes air but no matter how furiously I pump, it will not inflate whatsoever. But you can hear the air leaking as you pump. It sounds like it's coming straight out of the pump without the pump being attached to anything. My guess is, it might be a valve stem issue. Pump is fine, works ok on good tire.

Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
I am having trouble with visualization. TIRE WON'T TAKE A LICK OF AIR. Did you lick the valve stem before putting the pump head on? Air won't go into the valve? Air goes into valve but leaks out of the tire? Or does the tube leak? ... I'm not seeing it.
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Old 06-13-21, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
There needn’t necessarily be liquid sealant in a tubeless setup.
There needs to be in every modern, non-UST set up.
ETA: C'mon OP...take the tube out and find the obvious puncture. Check the tire in that location, make sure there is nothing there that could cause another flat and install a new tube.
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Old 06-13-21, 07:19 PM
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Take the bike back to the shop and ask them to fix the flat (probably by installing a new tube) and to explain to you what caused the flat and how to reduce the likelihood of flatting in the future.
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Old 06-13-21, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
There needs to be in every modern, non-UST set up.
No, that is not correct. IRC, for example, use a butyl lining to make their tires airtight. I’ve also run previous versions of Schwalbe One without sealant and Hutchinson Fusion 5 Galactik as well, presumably due to a butyl lining, but it may have been some other material making those airtight.

https://ircbike.com/pages/technology
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Old 06-13-21, 07:50 PM
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Tires don't hold air, tubes hold air. Tires hold tubes. If it's got a tube and you can't get it to hold air, take the tube out and inspect it. Just FYI, if it's a tubeless setup, the valve stem bolts to the rim and you must have contact all the way around both beads before air will stay in. I ran tubeless for a season with no sealant, so sealant may be recommended but is not required.
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Old 06-13-21, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
...C'mon OP...take the tube out and find the obvious puncture. Check the tire in that location, make sure there is nothing there that could cause another flat and install a new tube.
I have some sympathy with the OP here. I recently had four flats in four weeks, with no obvious problem with the tire. I even took the tire and rim to my LBS, thinking they might spot a problem I couldn't find, but they said everything looks fine and put another tube in, which I did, and I had another flat. I replaced the tire 11 days ago (I had an extra tire at home) and it's holding air. Apparently, there was something wrong with the tire that neither I nor my LBS could find

Given the OP's problem, I'd try to inflate a new tube before putting it in the tire. Just pump some air in the tube to see if it will inflate. If it does, the problem is not with the tube or the pump. If it doesn't, the problem is either the tube or the pump (but if it is a new tube, probably the pump)..
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Old 06-14-21, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Random11 View Post
I have some sympathy with the OP here. I recently had four flats in four weeks, with no obvious problem with the tire. I even took the tire and rim to my LBS, thinking they might spot a problem I couldn't find, but they said everything looks fine and put another tube in, which I did, and I had another flat. I replaced the tire 11 days ago (I had an extra tire at home) and it's holding air. Apparently, there was something wrong with the tire that neither I nor my LBS could find

Given the OP's problem, I'd try to inflate a new tube before putting it in the tire. Just pump some air in the tube to see if it will inflate. If it does, the problem is not with the tube or the pump. If it doesn't, the problem is either the tube or the pump (but if it is a new tube, probably the pump)..
In your case, it was probably a small piece of wire or shard of glass embedded in the tire you failed to locate and remove.
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Old 06-14-21, 12:18 PM
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unless it is obvious, like a nail sticking from the tire, you have to run your fingers on the inside of the tire to feel for any sharp point that made the flat... that's why it is important to mark the tube orientation, sometimes also rim orientation before removing tire/tube (rim orientation with respect to tire and tube - since the tube allows for two positions in the tire). It is usually simpler to find where the tube was punctured (inflate it and listen for a hissing sound or hold it under water and look for bubbles coming out) and from that you deduce the puncture position on the tire, sometimes on the rim (protruding spoke into the rim).

Mind you, on the initial run detecting for sharp object inside the tire surface, take it easy so you don't cut your finger. Unfortunately your fingers are still the best detectors around

Also it looks as if the tube will have a big hole in it given it won't inflate at all. Since you don't see any obvious tire damage, it could be a fault in the tube seam, it can separate creating a long gash. Usually it is better to throw the tube out than fixing it as it might do the same thing in another place before long.

Last edited by vane171; 06-14-21 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 06-14-21, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
No, that is not correct. IRC, for example, use a butyl lining to make their tires airtight. I’ve also run previous versions of Schwalbe One without sealant and Hutchinson Fusion 5 Galactik as well, presumably due to a butyl lining, but it may have been some other material making those airtight.

https://ircbike.com/pages/technology
From that page:
Tubeless...Liquid sealant is recommended, but not necessary.
Tubeless ready...When being mounted without an inner tube, liquid sealant must be used.
I don't know why you'd run a TL tire w/o any sealant.
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Old 06-14-21, 04:36 PM
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Is it a presta valve and you didn't unscrew the nut and open the valve?
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Old 06-14-21, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Is it a presta valve and you didn't unscrew the nut and open the valve?
Thats what I was thinking after the description of the sound and what’s happening. Make sure it’s open and/or the pump nozzle is on correctly. Been there, done that.
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Old 06-14-21, 05:04 PM
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It's a double slice on the side of tube above my finger. But tire and rim look ok. Any ideas?
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Old 06-14-21, 06:15 PM
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That's a classic pinch flat.
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Old 06-14-21, 06:41 PM
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I wonder if it's because I'm running 700x32 tires. The rim is supposed to take it but the tires definitely "balloon" a bit. The stock tires were 700x30. I put 90 lbs of air in the tires, I wonder if I should be putting more?

Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
That's a classic pinch flat.
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Old 06-14-21, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
In your case, it was probably a small piece of wire or shard of glass embedded in the tire you failed to locate and remove.
I'm sure you're right. But after several flats I looked REALLY CAREFULLY. And, took it to my LBS and they didn't find anything. At this point, I don't plan to use the tire again.
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