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A lot of the recent "innovation" is a bad bargain for anyone not pushing a competitiv

Old 06-30-22, 08:32 PM
  #551  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
You don't have to believe anything. I am entered in a time-trial in a week and a half I last ran 25 years ago and you can look at the results here, I finished 40th out of 401 entrants riding a 12-speed Motobecane.. https://www.highmarkquad.org/backup/pdf/1997b.pdf I am not going to go that fast or finish that high this time around, I am sixty years old and have had a heart attack, but you will be able to look up the results for this year too, and I will not be finishing the course in 33 minutes like I did then, but should have no problem running it in 38 or 39 minutes as long as it is not a very windy day. Do you like crow ???
ďSite not found.Ē
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Old 07-01-22, 07:20 AM
  #552  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
“Site not found.”
Anyone can google erie. pa highmark quad games and find results of 1997. and as for not riding the Huffy 25 years ago, I did not have it then, and never said I did.

https://study.com/academy/lesson/ad-...-examples.html
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Old 07-01-22, 07:57 AM
  #553  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
Anyone can google erie. pa highmark quad games and find results of 1997. and as for not riding the Huffy 25 years ago, I did not have it then, and never said I did.
You provided a link that doesnít exist. Why should I waste my time trying to find the valid link? Thatís on you.
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Old 07-01-22, 08:03 AM
  #554  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
Anyone can google erie. pa highmark quad games and find results of 1997. and as for not riding the Huffy 25 years ago, I did not have it then, and never said I did.
Yeah, those are exactly the search terms I thought I should Google when I wanted to see your alleged results.

Love that you traded "up" from the Motobecane to a Huffy.
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Old 07-01-22, 08:16 AM
  #555  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post

All super-light materials and patented and copyrighted "aero" technology do is make cycling expensive and it destroys perfectly good older equipment by putting it in danger of no longer being supported in the way of spare parts by manufacturers who have to jump on the lightweight aero bandwagon that exists for no good reason at all.
Some people consider cycling to be a serious hobby and don't want to be tied down to whatever old tech you happen to prefer. It might be convenient for you if a brand new current part happened to fit your 40 year old bicycle, but that's not a realistic prospect with any technology. Wherever you do get long-term standards they usually end up becoming a restrictive bottleneck for future development. A prime example would be the standard gauge rail network, determined by the width of your average Victorian horse and cart!
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Old 07-01-22, 08:55 AM
  #556  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
A prime example would be the standard gauge rail network, determined by the width of your average Victorian horse and cart!
Which is, of course, a myth. Everyone knows that standard gauge was based on the width of Roman chariots and therefore the width of a horse's ass.

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Old 07-01-22, 09:22 AM
  #557  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Wherever you do get long-term standards they usually end up becoming a restrictive bottleneck for future development. A prime example would be the standard gauge rail network, determined by the width of your average Victorian horse and cart!
The standard (4 foot, 8 1/2 inches) gauge has not been a bottleneck for future development of RRs. It's the width George Stephenson chose to standardize production of locomotives as it was about a 1/2 inch wider than the wagonway rails he had been working on prior to steam, Odds are it coincides with the dimensions used by the wagonwright for that particular wagonway, not any particular "average". https://mosaicprojects.com.au/Mag_Ar...e_Railways.pdf

This standard gauge has kept RR systems interoperable, and when needed, other gauges (usually narrower for mountains) continue to be used. Ironically, the BART system in the SF Bay Area uses a 5'6" gauge, and the biggest complaint about that is that it makes it impossible to adopt new technology built for standard gauge.
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Old 07-01-22, 09:25 AM
  #558  
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Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
Which is, of course, a myth. Everyone knows that standard gauge was based on the width of Roman chariots and therefore the width of a horse's ass.
That never made the slightest sense.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ra...auge-chariots/
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Old 07-01-22, 12:06 PM
  #559  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post

...

All super-light materials and patented and copyrighted "aero" technology do is make cycling expensive and it destroys perfectly good older equipment by putting it in danger of no longer being supported in the way of spare parts by manufacturers who have to jump on the lightweight aero bandwagon that exists for no good reason at all...

.
If you insist upon writing rubbish like that you are going to get replies you don't want to see...

You wrote that you finished 40th out of over 400 in a TT 25 years ago. You say you are 60 now so that made you 35, a man in his prime still. Given the bike you say you had then, it wasn't that bad at the time for a TT of that type; amateur average level. But a lighter, more agile bike might have possibly helped you to a top 35, maybe top 30 depending upon the course.

40th is not a great result if you are trying to impress - you basically finished with the riders aiming for PB's and those just taking part for fun but weren't in any way among the fast guys in contention, not even close.

So you would have benefitted from a faster bike back then, and most certainly now. Just as you are benefiting from airing your views on this Forum...on the internet...via the keyboard of your computer...that didn't exist when you did that time-trial...because...technology has improved in all areas and an acceptable consequence of that, is that it makes older stuff eventually out-of-favour for the majority. Just as you are driving a car and not getting around on horseback.

However, don't fret, keep your older equipment in good condition and it will last a lot longer yet - indeed, if it is something desirable, the 'cottage-industry' will always ensure spares are available for the few who want them.

Cycling can be expensive, yes. If you opt - because it is optional - to chase speed. The very vast majority of cyclists don't. They want comfort and cycling fun and there are plenty of good quality affordable bikes out there. However, start chasing speed or just having a machine to match your sporting hero's and things will get expensive quickly, and the more expensive, the more all you are getting is increasingly marginal gains. This can only be justified by the person paying the money - do they need it? Can they afford it? What are their cycling goals? Some of us deem it worthwhile.

Just as you want manufacturers to stagnate and stay with old tech, a far greater majority are pushing them to innovate and do exactly what they are doing.

Still...if you do want old tech that is newly supported, look to China and get yourself a Flying Pigeon. Their most popular bike, sold over 500 million around the World, it is largely unchanged since 1950 and still in production today. Your dilemma solved.


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Old 07-01-22, 12:26 PM
  #560  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I get a kick out of guys that clearly take pride in passing me when I'm on a recovery ride or winding down from a long day in the saddle. It's cute that they think I'm working hard and I hate to disabuse them of the notion and rob them of their moment of glory.
OMG....this happened to me a few days ago on a long Z2 endurance ride. Three weenie club members chased me down and once they passed me, they slowed way down and then fanned out from the center line to the gutter. So, I waited until I could pass and said passing on your left, yet, they did not give way staying 3 abreast. They chase me down again. Rinse and repeat a few times. I was just trying to stay at a specific power and these turkeys saw me as some kind of object to race against. They had nice bikes.
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Old 07-01-22, 01:03 PM
  #561  
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Originally Posted by Herzlos View Post
....All we know is that in 2060, some people will still be saying that bike design peaked in (year they got their last good bike), and that everything made after (arbitrary date most people can't remember) aren't real bikes for some reason.
I read somewhere and will not describe it well, I'm sure, but, concerning pop music:

Pick an age where you started enjoying pop music. For me, this is about the time the British Invasion happened in the US, I was about 9 in 1962.
All pop music before (your baseline year) as "oldies", either not good or quaint. Definitely outdated.
The only pop music that is creative, progressive, interesting, artful and listenable happened between (your year) and (a year about 20 or so years later, for me the early 80s)
All pop music produced after (your later year) or so is ***** and just doesn't have the quality and creativeness of music produced between those two years of your favorite pop music.

The main symptom of this sort of attitude is when you yell at kids for having fun and making noise "get off my lawn", "kids these days".

I'm sort of kidding of course, but every generation thinks the previous generation is outdated and the next generation are slackers and tasteless dweebs. I hear my contemporaries talk about millennials, etc. in these terms and just laugh to myself because that's how my parents' generation talked about us and every millennial I know a great, hardworking person.

I love vintage bikes for nostalgia rand aesthetic reasons. I love modern bikes because they work so darn well and also like the aesthetics of some of them. I do NOT like vintage cars at all, not one bit. OK, maybe late 60s Mopar muscle cars - for aesthetic and nostalgic reasons. Current cars are just so much more comfortable and durable and look great in many cases.

Last edited by Camilo; 07-01-22 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 07-01-22, 02:00 PM
  #562  
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
I read somewhere and will not describe it well, I'm sure, but, concerning pop music:

Pick an age where you started enjoying pop music. For me, this is about the time the British Invasion happened in the US, I was about 9 in 1962.
All pop music before (your baseline year) as "oldies", either not good or quaint. Definitely outdated.
The only pop music that is creative, progressive, interesting, artful and listenable happened between (your year) and (a year about 20 or so years later, for me the early 80s)
All pop music produced after (your later year) or so is ***** and just doesn't have the quality and creativeness of music produced between those two years of your favorite pop music.

The main symptom of this sort of attitude is when you yell at kids for having fun and making noise "get off my lawn", "kids these days".

I'm sort of kidding of course, but every generation thinks the previous generation is outdated and the next generation are slackers and tasteless dweebs. I hear my contemporaries talk about millennials, etc. in these terms and just laugh to myself because that's how my parents' generation talked about us and every millennial I know a great, hardworking person.

I love vintage bikes for nostalgia rand aesthetic reasons. I love modern bikes because they work so darn well and also like the aesthetics of some of them. I do NOT like vintage cars at all, not one bit. OK, maybe late 60s Mopar muscle cars - for aesthetic and nostalgic reasons. Current cars are just so much more comfortable and durable and look great in many cases.
Proving the Jaguar E-Type, Mazda RX-7, Beatles, Madonna (way before Nirvana), Colnago Super, and Colnago Super represent the pinnacle of human endeavor. Was there anything before or after this period that wasn't Beaver Cleaver or Kardashians? I think not.
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Old 07-01-22, 10:03 PM
  #563  
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Originally Posted by mikeoverly View Post
I think not.
Man, if anyone ever left an opening.

Got to agree about the E-type.
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Old 07-02-22, 10:03 AM
  #564  
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
I read somewhere and will not describe it well, I'm sure, but, concerning pop music:

Pick an age where you started enjoying pop music. For me, this is about the time the British Invasion happened in the US, I was about 9 in 1962.
All pop music before (your baseline year) as "oldies", either not good or quaint. Definitely outdated.
The only pop music that is creative, progressive, interesting, artful and listenable happened between (your year) and (a year about 20 or so years later, for me the early 80s)
All pop music produced after (your later year) or so is ***** and just doesn't have the quality and creativeness of music produced between those two years of your favorite pop music.

The main symptom of this sort of attitude is when you yell at kids for having fun and making noise "get off my lawn", "kids these days".
Works with Saturday Night Live casts as well. Ask someone what their favorite cast was, when they were live that person was probably between the ages of 14-20.
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Old 07-02-22, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ubie View Post
Works with Saturday Night Live casts as well. Ask someone what their favorite cast was, when they were live that person was probably between the ages of 14-20.
Hmmm. Iím in my 50s, and I think recent years have been some of SNLís best.
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Old 07-03-22, 12:04 AM
  #566  
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Originally Posted by Ubie View Post
Works with Saturday Night Live casts as well. Ask someone what their favorite cast was, when they were live that person was probably between the ages of 14-20.
Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Hmmm. Iím in my 50s, and I think recent years have been some of SNLís best.
I'm mid-60s and still watch it every week (recorded for later viewing, usually a little earlier on Sunday evening. Some current cast members are brilliant, some meh. Some guest hosts really nail it, some don't. Some musical acts are great to watch, some I skip. But Weekend Update, I think, is as good as ever and has been consistently great for at least the last 20 years, probably forever.

I could say the exact same thing for the entire 2000s. Some of the cast members and overall ensembles were all time greats, some very weak. I didn't watch much in the 80s and 90s so can't really judge. I was in my early 20s when it started. I watch some of that old stuff, 70s 80s, 90s and can say the exact same thing about the casts and skits as I wrote above. Sometimes it's brilliant, but it wasn't uniformly great and never has been.

What's interesting to me is when new cast members start. There's been several I just didn't think were good at first, but really blossomed.
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Old 07-04-22, 12:41 AM
  #567  
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I get the pop music theory and largely agree. I started to listen to pop music in about 1971 (age 6) and I don't like hardly anything after 1992. The first bikes that I rode, however, were steel with down tube non indexed shifters. I can't remember the ride quality but I want indexed brifters. The first bikes that I owned were aluminum and I now don't like them due to their bone shaking rattle. I got my first comfortable carbon bike when Lance Armstrong was still in the TDF.

Now I have Lance Armstrong's bike. A Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007 in Ultegra 5700 plus Dura Ace DR in ten speed, I don't think I want anything "better". No, I would like electronic shifting but can't afford it, and can't see that it makes all that much difference. The Ultegra 6700 last (?) not under the bar tape shifting is so easy and good. I had been using 105 5800 for a while and thought it great, but the front shift on the 6700 is so much easier that I thought the wire in my 5800 had snapped, it was so hard to shift up. The horizontal top tube and 13.5cm head tube of the Lance Armstrong bike puts me in an areo position.

Are there any "aero road bikes" that are aero when taking into account the rider position? If such exist then I want one (my Look, from the LA era is getting there but the carbon is a bit less springy) but if not then they are a step backwards. "Aero" is only aero if it takes into account the whole package (bike plus rider). If the "aero road bikes" are upright then they are on balance, in toto, anti-aero and thus bollox (or for fat people).

Or is it that the pop music theory needs to be modified: people love the bikes that they wanted when they first fell in love with bikes?

Last edited by timtak; 07-04-22 at 01:23 AM. Reason: better in quotes.
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Old 07-05-22, 07:39 AM
  #568  
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Originally Posted by AlgarveCycling View Post
If you insist upon writing rubbish like that you are going to get replies you don't want to see...
Just because something is rubbing to you, does not mean it is rubbish, your view is subjective.

[QUOTE=AlgarveCycling;22560603]You wrote that you finished 40th out of over 400 in a TT 25 years ago. You say you are 60 now so that made you 35, a man in his prime still. Given the bike you say you had then, it wasn't that bad at the time for a TT of that type; amateur average level. But a lighter, more agile bike might have possibly helped you to a top 35, maybe top 30 depending upon the course.[QUOTE]

It was a relatively flat course, and I weigh 200 pounds, A little lighter bike is not going to help a clydesdale rider, and do little for anyone else, like the 361 riders that finished slower than I did for instance who were certainly not all on older equipment than I was. The only thing that would have helped me is if the time-trial was late in the season when I was in better shape and pulling another 1-2mph in similar situations. It is scientifically proven that on flatter courses bicycle weight is not a big factor, and it is also scientifically proven that rider position on the bike and their fitness are by far the most important factors in speed.

[QUOTE=AlgarveCycling;22560603]40th is not a great result if you are trying to impress [QUOTE]

The thread is on technology, having a 12-speed round steel tube motobecane Jubile with friction shifting finish ahead of 361 out of 400 other bikes, many of them much lighter, with trigger or brifter shifting, aero-tubing and wheels and riders wearing racing outfits and helmets is an obvious example of technology not being necessary and is on subject. Ad-Hominem statements like yours are not only off subject, but the earmark of someone losing a debate due to lack of facts and/or logic.

[QUOTE=AlgarveCycling;22560603]Just as you are benefiting from airing your views on this Forum...on the internet...via the keyboard of your computer...that didn't exist when you did that time-trial...[QUOTE]

Huh ??? Ever hear of Windows 95' and AOL ??? How old are you ??? Automobiles have been around since the 1800s, so your point about driving them is also nonsense. Again, it looks like the only way you can win a debate is by making things up, or thinking that because you say something louder, or just say it period, that it means something. You have no facts, logic or common sense in your statements.

[QUOTE=AlgarveCycling;22560603]Cycling can be expensive, yes. If you opt - because it is optional - to chase speed. The very vast majority of cyclists don't. [QUOTE]

Which nicely backs my position up. It takes no new tech to attain a comfortable bicycle, a nice Schwinn cruiser from the early 60s with a three-speed hub and nice wide sprung seat will work just fine. And you reiterate your statement about speed being tied to technology, when it is proven by science research that rider position and fitness are by far more important than the equipment for speed.

[QUOTE=AlgarveCycling;22560603]Just as you want manufacturers to stagnate and stay with old tech, a far greater majority are pushing them to innovate and do exactly what they are doing.

Another illogical false assumption on your part, stating that something is constructive or makes sense because a lot of people back it up is like saying because Britney Spears had a number-one hit she is a better singer or artist than opera singer Renee Fleming, who is known to much less of the population. Just because the majority of the Western population has been brainwashed by establishment media since WWI to go along with wasteful consumerism that destroys the ecosystem while stuffing the wallets of Wall-Street billionaires, does not make them authorities on quality or necessity, in fact it makes them quite the opposite.




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Old 07-05-22, 07:41 AM
  #569  
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Originally Posted by timtak View Post
Or is it that the pop music theory needs to be modified: people love the bikes that they wanted when they first fell in love with bikes?

I fell in love with road bikes in the 1970s. I buy a fair number of used bikes, and I won't even look at a bike with downtube, stem, or bar end shifting

Seriously, if you look at the people touting the latest and greatest on this forum, I think you'll find that as a group, they skew older.
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Old 07-05-22, 07:54 AM
  #570  
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Born in the 50's and started to ride in the 70's, my vintage Masi GC hangs in the garage and I pretty much only ride carbon and electronic shifted bikes with carbon hoops
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Old 07-05-22, 08:14 AM
  #571  
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Originally Posted by timtak View Post
I

Or is it that the pop music theory needs to be modified: people love the bikes that they wanted when they first fell in love with bikes?
Iím in my mid 50s, and IMO the Golden Age of bikes is right now.

It is also the Golden Age of TV, IMO. Were I to make a list of my favorite 10 TV series, Iíd guess at least 7 of them have been since the mid-2000s. Yet I watched a whole lot more TV in my youth.
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Old 07-05-22, 08:32 AM
  #572  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
It is also the Golden Age of TV, IMO. Were I to make a list of my favorite 10 TV series, Iíd guess at least 7 of them have been since the mid-2000s. Yet I watched a whole lot more TV in my youth.
For drama, most definitely. Shows like The Wire opened a lot of eyes - not just with viewers, but more importantly with writers, producers, actors, etc - and showed the kind of prestige possible with the format.

I can't say that I've paid much attention to current comedies...
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Old 07-05-22, 08:41 AM
  #573  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
Beng1 wrote absolute garbage - again.


You actually believe the nonsense you write here, don't you? You're not debating, you're engaging in an exercise of making yourself look stupid.

Give you head a wobble and think: Once you have got your personal fitness and strength peaking, once you have got your position dialled in...what is left to improve performance? The bike. And it can make a very significant difference, and this is, as you like to say, "scientifically proven". But you seem incapable of grasping this fact.

Science (and every cognisant, non-idiotic rider who has ever ridden different types of bikes) has proven in wind tunnels that a 15 lb aero bike vs 20 lb non-aero bike saves x-number of watts at x-speed over 1 hour where x will vary in favour of the lighter, aero bike depending upon the course - including pancake flat.

Therefore, it is logical - since you claim to be logical - that the lighter, aero bike will be a benefit at all times. So if you could do 200W for 1 hour on a 20 lb bike, those same 200W on an aero 15 lb bike that saves you watts against the elements, gets you further down the road. This is an undeniable fact. Proven by countless actual athletes - not fun riders like you that want cycle tech to stagnate for selfish reasons.

Your own performance would improve if you used better tech regardless of your ability. But sure, for the fun, easy pace racing you do, probably not necessary just for the joy of taking part and having a laugh but for anyone who takes their racing seriously then faster bikes will help them towards their racing goals.

Anyway, I do realise I have just wasted time typing this since it is going into a vacuous space and I feel a little like I'm picking upon someone a tad 'disadvantaged' so I'll leave it at that....

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Old 07-05-22, 09:15 AM
  #574  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Born in the 50's and started to ride in the 70's, my vintage Masi GC hangs in the garage and I pretty much only ride carbon and electronic shifted bikes with carbon hoops
That's a shame..., for me,anyway. Certainly the 'new' stuff gets the most miles - just so deeply engrained in my cycling DNA... but getting out on my old gaspipe becomes approval to let memories flood back into the mind's eye. I have the same problem with motorcycles and ice skates... and surf boards... and... LOL!
The equipment is such an extension, that it becomes part of me... I know, crazy... LOL!
But it adds to the overall enjoyment.
If I was 35 again, now - I'd prolly obsess about 'new tech'. Thinking back, I did obsess when I was 58... LOL!
It's really OK to love the old gaspipe, Ok to 'need' the electronic/latest/lightest anything. I guess I'm avoiding the 'latest/lightest/fastest' tech, because I KNOW that this stuff won;t let me hold the wheel of really 'fast' groups around. A reality of my '73' which can't be undone...

You should get the MASI on the road more often, there's a different type of 'joy' to riding when the objective is different from being your 'fastest' self.
Ride On
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Old 07-05-22, 09:29 AM
  #575  
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Originally Posted by timtak;22563022
... Now I have Lance Armstrong's bike. A Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007 in Ultegra 5700 plus Dura Ace DR in ten speed, I don't think I want anything "better". No, I would like electronic shifting but can't afford it, and can't see that it makes all that much difference. The Ultegra 6700 last (?) not under the bar tape shifting is so easy and good. I had been using 105 5800 for a while and thought it great, but the front shift on the 6700 is so much easier that I thought the wire in my 5800 had snapped, it was so hard to shift up. The horizontal top tube and 13.5cm head tube of the Lance Armstrong bike puts me in an areo position.
...
...
people love the bikes that they wanted when they first fell in love with bikes?
a totally valid and admirable approach to doing your own ride.
... and also - 'people' love the equipment they might have had in their halcyon days of yore... no matter how un-halcyon those days actually may have been... LOL!
'admiring the 'niceness' of some of the latest stuff, doesn't diminish the value of the stuff you choose to have.
I like our moon, I don;t need to have 11 more...
Ride On
Yuri
EDIT: the BOLD is totally unintentional, for some reason, it just wants to be bold... Tried redoing the post in 'edit', but same,same... weird.

Last edited by cyclezen; 07-05-22 at 02:17 PM.
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