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Fairing/Pannier System

Old 07-12-21, 12:46 PM
  #26  
mstateglfr 
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Originally Posted by hotbike View Post

University of Toronto provided this cgi image
A triple? A triple?!? What is this, a touring bike or a performance machine?
University of Toronto should feel embarrassed!***
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Old 07-12-21, 12:48 PM
  #27  
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hotbike As always, your well thought out and advanced designs are not appreciated as they should be.
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Old 07-12-21, 01:20 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
One recent technology in this arena (in case you are not already familiar with it), is the pair of wheel fairings by https://nullwinds.com/pages/aerodefender. Your daughter's picture shows upper wheel fairings which are similar, at least in concept.

Two really good points, at least in my opinion:

> They have a design and have published some of their technical work to develop and test the designs - I can learn something from that!
> When I worked to develop similarly new ideas in an automotive corporate environment, I was to show a competitive analysis including at least a personal patent search if not a downtown job done by a consultant. Food for thought.

Fairings cover the upper part of the wheel. The upper part of the wheel is moving twice the velocity of the bike, so it is twice as important. (You realize, no matter how fast you are moving, the contact-patch of your tire, in contact with the ground, at any given moment, is Not moving?).
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Old 07-12-21, 04:15 PM
  #29  
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University of Toronto provided this cgi image
This wouldn't even be that hard to make. Apparently the nullwinds link posted earlier has the front wheel fairing, an integrated teardrop shaped seat bag would not be that hard to make/source and that just leaves the front handlebar fairing, of which I know I've seen several plexiglass models.Add tri spoke and disc wheels and there you go.

I also think bike choice would help. Perhaps a soft ride design would eliminate turbulence from the seat post/stays and make a rear wheel fairing similar to the nullwind possible.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 07-13-21 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 07-12-21, 04:30 PM
  #30  
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Focusing on the THEORETICAL LIMITS in the lower left of the chart. It really drives home the concept that aerodynamic drag is the only reason bicyclists donít get speeding tickets...


Iím starting with a new upright design, I realize the corners need to be rounded, but that has to wait for a molded version, and the molded version has to wait for a mass produced frame, or else the fairing wonít fit the frame. Experiments with flat, angled plates show the front fairing needs to be angled no more than 54į to the horizontal, and the rear Tailbox should have an 11į taper.

The chart the IHPVA published in 1983 © Douglas Malewicki

The BUY-CYCLE . Part of the economy.
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Old 07-18-21, 02:35 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
This wouldn't even be that hard to make. Apparently the nullwinds link posted earlier has the front wheel fairing, an integrated teardrop shaped seat bag would not be that hard to make/source and that just leaves the front handlebar fairing, of which I know I've seen several plexiglass models.Add tri spoke and disc wheels and there you go.

I also think bike choice would help. Perhaps a soft ride design would eliminate turbulence from the seat post/stays and make a rear wheel fairing similar to the nullwind possible.
My own experiments, (23rd prototype at this point in time) all point to the conclusion that effective aerodynamic Fairings could be constructed within the envelope and parameters of typical bicycle baskets and/or fairings. Two ways of doing it would be either a touring bike, as weíve been discussing in this thread, or as a cargo bike, which would open up more possibilities.
The touring bike would need a large 3rd chainring, but I believe such a touring bike could out-sprint a time-trial bike. It would limit the available pannier space, but I believe it could be done.
The main hinderance to production of a fairing/pannier System setup would be incompatibility issues with different frames, and sizes of frames. Would make a custom bike cost an astronomical fee (but isnít that the point of a custom bike?)
I see similarities between fairings and the cargo carriers on bike share systems, and it also points to the conclusion that injection molded plastic fairings would be economical if all the bikes were identical.
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Old 07-23-21, 07:58 AM
  #32  
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Newest directional signals test

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Old 07-24-21, 05:44 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by hotbike View Post
My own experiments, (23rd prototype at this point in time) all point to the conclusion that effective aerodynamic Fairings could be constructed within the envelope and parameters of typical bicycle baskets and/or fairings.
Have you measured the aerodynamic drag of any of your designs? How much do they help?
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Old 07-24-21, 06:30 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by RChung View Post
Have you measured the aerodynamic drag of any of your designs? How much do they help?
The Type 4, which had only a front fairing mounted, but no tail fairing, was timed rolling downhill, compared to an unfaired bike , and by _extrapolation_ the drag coefficient was determined to be .38 .
I donít have a wind tunnel.
Im much older now, Iíve had a couple of injuries and a couple of medical conditions.
I can say that the fairings help with headwinds, definitely. But I havenít been able to obtain an 84t chainring, which would allow the aerodynamic advantage to be demonstrated on flat ground.
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Old 07-24-21, 06:53 AM
  #35  
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This bike, which was the seventeenth prototype, but is now reworked into the twenty-fourth prototype, is very bulky, to maximize the carrying capacity, and the weather protection for the rider.
I enjoy riding my creations, I have more creature-comforts than most bikers. I see a big difference with the number of lights leading more drivers to pass with more distance.
I could make a faster bicycle, but it would be near fully enclosed, requiring a pit crew to seal the hatch, and it would be only useful for 200 meter sprints.
I rushed this bike out the door as soon as the last signal light was soldered in, and there was a concert in progress when I got to Glen Cove.
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Old 07-24-21, 07:04 AM
  #36  
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I don't want to dissuade anyone from experimenting, but I'm guessing that the OP's design will probably cause more drag than riding without it. And frankly, I want the wind while riding on hot days as it keeps me cooled off. If there's no wind on me evaporating my sweat then I'm going to overheat really quickly.
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Old 07-24-21, 03:37 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
I don't want to dissuade anyone from experimenting, but I'm guessing that the OP's design will probably cause more drag than riding without it. And frankly, I want the wind while riding on hot days as it keeps me cooled off. If there's no wind on me evaporating my sweat then I'm going to overheat really quickly.
Maybe, depending on whether the fairing and panniers are optimized for cargo capacity, or for speed... a low profile would help you go faster, but you canít carry any significant amount of cargo, maybe a loaf of bread (the word ďpannierĒ is derived from a French word meaning bread-carrier) .
But you will learn to appreciate the fairing on cold days, I recommend studded tires account of black ice.
These latest designs btw, are based on my touring bike design of 1987. My daughter designed the ladies version/cargo bike in 1991, but it requires an expensive monocoque to be built. Itís going to be expensive to do it over again. I want to have a cheaper alternative available for people who canít afford the cargo bike, hence the touring bike.
Keep in mind, Iím using Coroplast ©, and itís going to yield a boxier result than fiberglass or carbon. I canít settle on a final design account of the variations in bike designs available on the market, this is no one-size-fits-all device.
I may have to have the frames welded in China or Viet Nam. I see a similarity in the design of the CitiBike, which has something on the handlebars, a protective shield and cargo carrier, very similar to a fairing (and the aerodynamics are not of prime importance considering the speed limit in New York is 25MPH).
It is important to have the frame and fairing matching at the design stage, and the templates must fit exactly to ensure successful manufacture.
I want to provide a resource guide and database to other experimenters.
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Old 07-24-21, 05:38 PM
  #38  
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These are cool looking and someone has already done the heavy thinking.

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Old 07-24-21, 07:39 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
These are cool looking and someone has already done the heavy thinking.

Everyone whoís tried those says theyíre great, but Iím hoping we can have something Bicycle-specific manufactured.
Not sure how you might make a fairing or front basket with those buckets.
Iíd like to compare dimensions.



My panniers are one piece, left and right together, and the sides are higher than the rack. The rear pannier/tailbox is easier to mount on the bike account of the rear rack, which is pretty much standard, while the fairing for the handlebars requires custom made hardware...

Mounting hardware for handlebars
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Old 07-26-21, 05:07 PM
  #40  
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I do admit to being amused at how these homemade bike attachments have model numbers.
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Old 07-26-21, 05:52 PM
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I can see that it might be hard to tell one white plastic box from another. I expect the model numbers will be needed when they go into production.
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Old 07-26-21, 05:58 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
A triple? A triple?!? What is this, a touring bike or a performance machine?
University of Toronto should feel embarrassed!***
And barefoot.
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Old 07-27-21, 05:18 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
I can see that it might be hard to tell one white plastic box from another. I expect the model numbers will be needed when they go into production.
I need to know which one the (potential) customer is referring to. The one with the biggest cargo space holds about six times more volume than the most aerodynamic model.
Iím trying to lay the groundwork for a possible business, and I donít want a monopoly. I expect and encourage others to make their own version. I do in fact have a competitor- CitiBike.
CitiBike has most of the features, the plastic shield on the handlebars perhaps the most noticeable...
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Old 07-27-21, 07:56 AM
  #44  
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320 puts all the weight too far up IMHO, the idea is the get the weight as close to the axle's as possible
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Old 07-27-21, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
320 puts all the weight too far up IMHO, the idea is the get the weight as close to the axle's as possible

M320 Pannier/Tailbox

The M320 is 21Ē deep overall, 14Ē above the rack shelf, 7Ē below. Heavy items should be placed in the pannier wells.
If the panniers are any deeper, there then needs to be a cutout to prevent heel-strike.

The M320 is tapered, narrower at the rear, and is overall more aerodynamic because itís in the riders wake.
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Old 07-27-21, 10:21 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by hotbike View Post

M320 Pannier/Tailbox

The M320 is 21Ē deep overall, 14Ē above the rack shelf, 7Ē below. Heavy items should be placed in the pannier wells.
If the panniers are any deeper, there then needs to be a cutout to prevent heel-strike.

The M320 is tapered, narrower at the rear, and is overall more aerodynamic because itís in the riders wake.
Which brings us bag around to bags
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Old 07-27-21, 10:34 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
Which brings us bag around to bags


Chart shows ďTouring-arms straightĒ , but doesnít show bags. Bags Iím sure would add resistance aerodynamic. Tapered Tailbox has been shown to reduce wind resistance.
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Old 07-27-21, 12:24 PM
  #48  
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You could write a letter to CitiBike, tell them the carrier on the handlebars should be a bag...
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Old 07-27-21, 01:27 PM
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So we're going to ignore weight distribution of a rider on a bike, even more so on and upright bike?

I have no real problem with what you're doing but please make honest arguments.
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Old 07-28-21, 11:29 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
So we're going to ignore weight distribution of a rider on a bike, even more so on and upright bike?

I have no real problem with what you're doing but please make honest arguments.

Deeper Panniers require a cut-out to prevent heel-strike
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