Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Calories and cycling

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Calories and cycling

Old 07-20-21, 12:11 PM
  #51  
livedarklions
Racerboyz' b'crat
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5087 Post(s)
Liked 4,389 Times in 2,472 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I lost a little over 60 pounds in just under 4 months once. It can be done.
That's just a shade over 3 pounds a week, which I understand from some reading is probably about the maximum healthy steady weight loss. Any faster, and it starts to wreak havoc with your gall bladder,
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 12:12 PM
  #52  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 6,840

Bikes: Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3473 Post(s)
Liked 3,696 Times in 1,866 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I'm good with eating for pleasure, I have no desire to make eating into a chore, but I also don't need some chef going on and on about needing to make every meal special in some way. Lots of meals are just going to be a matter of fuel.

I'm seriously not into any kind of fitness "program". Probably a forum like that would just be bad for my morale. What I like about bicycling is it's both play and exercise.
Exactly. I get so much more out of riding than simply fitness. It keeps me sane. Or at least I think I'm sane......
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
genejockey is online now  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 07-20-21, 12:18 PM
  #53  
livedarklions
Racerboyz' b'crat
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5087 Post(s)
Liked 4,389 Times in 2,472 Posts
Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
That's just how bodybuilders with extremely low body fat get through another meal of chicken breasts and egg whites. It's like a mental game where you convince yourself that it really doesn't matter what it is or what it tastes like because it's just fuel. That's how some people avoid cravings and binge eating. It's like a business. You want to compete you have to adjust your mentality. You want the chocolate sauce or extra fries, it's going to hurt your business. It's just another way of thinking about food and it's purpose.

As they say, there's a fine line between bodybuilding (or professional cycling) and an eating disorder. I'm just a 60 year old guy trying to feel fit and not look every minute of my age. I would be sick of body building in a matter of a few weeks. It also has virtually no CV benefits, which I definitely want out of any fitness thing I do. Please note--I'm just saying it's not for me, I appreciate that's hard work and people obviously get benefits from it, so no need to defend it. My assumption is that people always know more about what works for them than I do. .
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 12:24 PM
  #54  
livedarklions
Racerboyz' b'crat
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5087 Post(s)
Liked 4,389 Times in 2,472 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Drunks are told stay away from bars. Nothing good is going to happen at a buffet......just sayin

I've had some times when I'm riding more than 250 miles a week for an extended period where I absolutely felt like the binge actually was helpful, and I didn't get any weight gain as a result. Those times were fun.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 12:39 PM
  #55  
MoAlpha
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 8,704

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6968 Post(s)
Liked 3,461 Times in 1,876 Posts
Originally Posted by Awesomeguy View Post
I saw some threads regarding this, but it really didn't answer my thought about calories.

I biked about 30 minutes yesterday, with higher intensity, and averaged about 15 miles per hour. Keep in mind this is in a residential\neighborhood area, and there was quite a few stops and such. The longest stretch was 1 mile long, most other streets were like quarter to half a mile, before slowing and having to make a turn
My apple watch said i burned about 430 calories, online calculators all say roughly about the same thing. My heart rate was 135avg, and 150 max

Then on the other hand when I read power meter related calorie burn from people whom have a power meter, it seems like it is much less than that.
However it seems like power meter doesn't take into account, the heart rate or your age , gender, and weight.

So, how much calories do you think i really burned?
Also, is factors like gender, heart rate, and age not taken into account?
The power meter gives you a very good estimate of the number of calories (energy) required to do the work of a ride. What it doesn't tell you is your efficiency at producing that energy from "calories" consumed, which determines how much less fat that ride made you or how much you'll need to eat for dinner to keep from wasting away (my problem). That parameter varies across individuals and states, most importantly the proportion of aerobic and anaerobic metabolism employed. Anaerobic metabolism is much less efficient, so harder efforts use more energy. I'm sure there are other effort-related factors that I'm not aware of.

I guess I should add that heart rate is a reasonable surrogate for effort and the algorithms in our gizmos use it to estimate efficiency based on some model of its relationship to the mix of aerobic and anaerobic metabolism for an activity.

Last edited by MoAlpha; 07-20-21 at 12:53 PM.
MoAlpha is offline  
Likes For MoAlpha:
Old 07-20-21, 12:57 PM
  #56  
livedarklions
Racerboyz' b'crat
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5087 Post(s)
Liked 4,389 Times in 2,472 Posts
Originally Posted by ofajen View Post
As a reminder, dietary calories are measured in units of energy. The dietary calorie is actually a kilocalorie for use in comparison with SI units of work, such as joules or kilojoules. one calorie = 4.184 Joules so one dietary calorie = one kilocalorie = 4.184 kJ.

As you will see in examples below, riders tend to be about 25% efficient at turning dietary calories consumed into useful pedaling work which would be measured again in units of energy. Most of the rest is ultimately dissipated as heat though there is also internal work done just moving the mass of legs, pedals and cranks at a particular cadence.

Power meters measure the instantaneous rate at which external work is being done on the pedals and is measured in Watts= Joules/sec.

For those interested, that internal power load and resulting internal work is strongly dependent on cadence, so at a given speed on the road (and external power load) the total load your body must power will be a higher level that is an increasing function of cadence.



So I presume thats looking at pedaling at 200W for one hour. Total external work would be 200 J/ sec times 3600 sec = 720,000 J or 720 kJ. At 25% efficiency, that requires 4 x 720 kJ = 2,880 kJ of dietary energy consumed which is 2.880 kJ/ 4.184 kJ/kcal = 688 kcal = 688 dietary calories. The 25% figure is rough and varies a bit with individuals so dont read more than two figures at most. Figure 700 dietary calories roughly.



Power is actually the rate at which work is being done, measured in watts or kW. Coincidentally, the factor of 4 from the 25% metabolic efficiency roughly cancels the 4.184 conversion factor of dietary calories or kcal to kJ. So, yes, one kJ of cycling work is roughly one dietary calorie consumed.

Probably more than folks wanted to see but there it is for folks who might wonder.

Otto

I've always wondered, how solid is that 25% efficiency figure? It just doesn't seem logical to me to assume that doesn't vary a lot, so is there real evidence that it doesn't?

.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 12:58 PM
  #57  
livedarklions
Racerboyz' b'crat
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5087 Post(s)
Liked 4,389 Times in 2,472 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
The power meter gives you a very good estimate of the number of calories (energy) required to do the work of a ride. What it doesn't tell you is your efficiency at producing that energy from "calories" consumed, which determines how much less fat that ride made you or how much you'll need to eat for dinner to keep from wasting away (my problem). That parameter varies across individuals and states, most importantly the proportion of aerobic and anaerobic metabolism employed. Anaerobic metabolism is much less efficient, so harder efforts use more energy. I'm sure there are other effort-related factors that I'm not aware of.

I guess I should add that heart rate is a reasonable surrogate for effort and the algorithms in our gizmos use it to estimate efficiency based on some model of its relationship to the mix of aerobic and anaerobic metabolism for an activity.
Oh,heck, you answered my question!
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 03:53 PM
  #58  
ofajen
Cheerfully low end
 
ofajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 965
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 272 Post(s)
Liked 408 Times in 268 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I've always wondered, how solid is that 25% efficiency figure? It just doesn't seem logical to me to assume that doesn't vary a lot, so is there real evidence that it doesn't?

.
Not really. It varies by individual and for an individual it varies based on level of effort, conditioning and nutrition.

Otto
ofajen is offline  
Likes For ofajen:
Old 07-20-21, 04:09 PM
  #59  
pgjackson
Senior Member
 
pgjackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 4,131

Bikes: Rossetti Vertigo

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked 111 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
As they say, there's a fine line between bodybuilding (or professional cycling) and an eating disorder. I'm just a 60 year old guy trying to feel fit and not look every minute of my age. I would be sick of body building in a matter of a few weeks. It also has virtually no CV benefits, which I definitely want out of any fitness thing I do. Please note--I'm just saying it's not for me, I appreciate that's hard work and people obviously get benefits from it, so no need to defend it. My assumption is that people always know more about what works for them than I do. .
I don't recommend anyone eat a bodybuilder's diet. I was just saying that it is sometimes helpful to think of food as fuel and not entertainment or luxury. Eat clean. When trying to lose weight, two plain scrambled eggs is better than two eggs with cheese and grits. A grilled chicken breast with some spices is better than fried chicken. A glass of water is better than a Coke. Some people feel obligated to eat fancy, especially when eating out. I struggle with that also. It's even harder after a good workout. You feel you earned that big meal, but in reality you are probably just setting yourself back to where you were before.
pgjackson is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 04:14 PM
  #60  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 867
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times in 251 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That's just a shade over 3 pounds a week, which I understand from some reading is probably about the maximum healthy steady weight loss. Any faster, and it starts to wreak havoc with your gall bladder,
I have no idea.

I also lost almost 20 pounds in 4 weeks on a tour down under. When I went back into the office, colleague's jaws dropped. I wasn't trying to lose that much weight, it was the miles and spotty food availability. I got hungry a lot. That was 30 years ago. I hope my Gaul Bladder is ok
GhostRider62 is offline  
Likes For GhostRider62:
Old 07-20-21, 04:23 PM
  #61  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 6,840

Bikes: Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3473 Post(s)
Liked 3,696 Times in 1,866 Posts
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
You have to burn upwards of 3500 Calories to lose 1 lb of fat. Of course that's only if fat is supplying all your Calories expended on the ride which typically it isn't.

Any weight loss you see after even a two or three hour ride is going to be mostly water loss from sweat.

So my advice if cycling is for weight loss it to ride long and ride low effort rides. When I ride hard, I tend to want to eat more.

Weight is still Calories in vs Calories out. Don't get too wrapped up in what your device says you burned. If the scale is going the wrong way then consume less Calories or burn more Calories. But don't worry about the device accuracy for Calories burned. Worry about the trends.

If you track your food, do you really think those Calorie figures are accurate for every item every time? Calorie content widely varies among those food items and the charts and stuff are just averages. If we had a Calorie meter we could stick in them, then we'd have a whole new set of threads wondering why they got this reading from this apple and another reading from another apple and someone else will be answering about plums.
I'll let you in on a secret - it's not about how accurate the calorie counters are. It's about thinking about how many calories are actually in what you eat, and putting that in the context of how much you can eat and still expect to lose weight.

If you're trying to only consume a net of 2000 calories a day, that Coke you're thinking about is about 8% of that. That "Small" Whopper meal at Burger King? 2/3 of your calories for the day. Go for a walk around the block? Maybe you get back 100 calories, so it won't "make room for" the pie you want to eat. Sure, you can look at the nutritional info on anything you buy to eat. But mostly, people don't. When you have to enter everything you ate, and you see the total going up with every snack, you begin to understand how you gained weight and how much you can actually eat and still lose weight.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
genejockey is online now  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 07-20-21, 04:35 PM
  #62  
pgjackson
Senior Member
 
pgjackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 4,131

Bikes: Rossetti Vertigo

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked 111 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
I'll let you in on a secret - it's not about how accurate the calorie counters are. It's about thinking about how many calories are actually in what you eat, and putting that in the context of how much you can eat and still expect to lose weight.

If you're trying to only consume a net of 2000 calories a day, that Coke you're thinking about is about 8% of that. That "Small" Whopper meal at Burger King? 2/3 of your calories for the day. Go for a walk around the block? Maybe you get back 100 calories, so it won't "make room for" the pie you want to eat. Sure, you can look at the nutritional info on anything you buy to eat. But mostly, people don't. When you have to enter everything you ate, and you see the total going up with every snack, you begin to understand how you gained weight and how much you can actually eat and still lose weight.
Man, it is so easy to lose track and get out of control. Like you said, it's not about a calorie counter. You just have to be cognizant of what you are eating. I used to work in an office where every birthday was celebrated with cake, people were randomly bringing in cookies, candy, and donuts almost every day. If you wanted a snack, all you had to so was walk around....all in good fun, but those little things add up over time. It's easy to forget about the 3 donuts and 5 cookies you had this week on top of your regular meals.
pgjackson is offline  
Likes For pgjackson:
Old 07-20-21, 05:01 PM
  #63  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 6,840

Bikes: Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3473 Post(s)
Liked 3,696 Times in 1,866 Posts
Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
Man, it is so easy to lose track and get out of control. Like you said, it's not about a calorie counter. You just have to be cognizant of what you are eating. I used to work in an office where every birthday was celebrated with cake, people were randomly bringing in cookies, candy, and donuts almost every day. If you wanted a snack, all you had to so was walk around....all in good fun, but those little things add up over time. It's easy to forget about the 3 donuts and 5 cookies you had this week on top of your regular meals.
It's really easy in a situation like that to eat an entire days calories in nothing but cookies and donuts. For me, the most dangerous time is when I'm working on something that requires pausing and thinking. Often I get up and walk around when I do that, and the next thing you know, you're in the Break Room, grabbing another donut....
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
genejockey is online now  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 07-20-21, 05:07 PM
  #64  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 867
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times in 251 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I've always wondered, how solid is that 25% efficiency figure? It just doesn't seem logical to me to assume that doesn't vary a lot, so is there real evidence that it doesn't?

.

25% is tops.

19% is bottom.

Approximately
GhostRider62 is offline  
Likes For GhostRider62:
Old 07-20-21, 05:26 PM
  #65  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 1,664
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 793 Post(s)
Liked 784 Times in 519 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
It's really easy in a situation like that to eat an entire days calories in nothing but cookies and donuts. For me, the most dangerous time is when I'm working on something that requires pausing and thinking. Often I get up and walk around when I do that, and the next thing you know, you're in the Break Room, grabbing another donut....
The best strategy is to make sure the snacks are not easily accessible ie simply dont buy them so they are not there when you feel like eating them. When you realise they are not there I find its actually very rare that I can be bothered going out to the shop to get them. I only have healthy snacks at hand and they often make you feel better anyway. Thats my top tip anyway - no junk snacks in the house.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 07-20-21, 06:21 PM
  #66  
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 3,634

Bikes: Trek 1100 road bike, Roadmaster gravel/commuter/beater mountain bike

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2087 Post(s)
Liked 1,365 Times in 749 Posts
Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
Yep, diet is more important than exercise. Many cyclists who pick up the sport to lose weight fail because they listen to all the "experts" who say you have to carbo load before a ride, then eat some sugary "energy" gel crap, a banana, and a PBJ sandwich every 30 minutes during a ride, then pig-out after a ride to recover.
This, and unless you're really hammering it you don't need all that carb loading. I do my morning ride before breakfast, often pushing myself fairly hard, and I never bonk. Even when I'm doing long rides of 20-50 miles or more, I don't "carb up" before heading out, I just eat my normal diet. I may take a carbed-up or sugary snack such as a Clif bar along with me, but honestly I could probably do just fine without it. The truth is that I enjoy having a snack while out on a long ride, and I figure it's as good a time as any while I'm out burning sugar while spinning my legs around on my bike. But nobody needs to carb up or eat sugary foods if they're just putting a couple of miles around town no faster than 10 MPH.

I really think the OP is making a mistake by focusing on increased exercise for weight loss rather than on diet. It's much better to focus on your diet in order to lose weight and ride the bike to maintain your health.
Milton Keynes is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 07:04 PM
  #67  
livedarklions
Racerboyz' b'crat
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5087 Post(s)
Liked 4,389 Times in 2,472 Posts
Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
I don't recommend anyone eat a bodybuilder's diet. I was just saying that it is sometimes helpful to think of food as fuel and not entertainment or luxury. Eat clean. When trying to lose weight, two plain scrambled eggs is better than two eggs with cheese and grits. A grilled chicken breast with some spices is better than fried chicken. A glass of water is better than a Coke. Some people feel obligated to eat fancy, especially when eating out. I struggle with that also. It's even harder after a good workout. You feel you earned that big meal, but in reality you are probably just setting yourself back to where you were before.

Careful, you're getting close to "you're doing it wrong" territory with the "you" stuff at the end. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just saying I don't find eating "for entertainment" occasionally at all destructive with the really high level of activity I maintain. And I actually haven't set myself back with big meals after my giant workouts, if anything I just put on a bit more muscle.
I'm a pretty extreme case in respect to how much time per week I'm working out, so a lot of the stuff you're saying just really doesn't apply to me very much. I don't think much of what I say works for me would apply to many people, so I just describe it and people have the choice of trying it or not trying it.

I do think where these conversations go off the rails is when people start assuming they're the normal one. Everything I've read and seen about this is there really is no uniformity in how people make these things work successfully for them. That's why virtually all published diets and regimens are such failures, they're cookie cutter solutions for a very unruly species. Actually, this thread has been remarkably free of the condescending "it's simple" assertions, which is really refreshing.

I don't that you and I are really disagreeing here, just finding that we do very different things. Crossfit is something I wouldn't touch with a 20 foot pole, but I wouldn't have any reason to try to talk you out of it. I'm happy if it works for you.

Last edited by livedarklions; 07-20-21 at 07:11 PM.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 07:14 PM
  #68  
wolfchild
Senior Member
 
wolfchild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 6,867

Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2302 Post(s)
Liked 1,112 Times in 562 Posts
Stop obsessing about calories....Calories counting is completely unnecessary.
wolfchild is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 07:16 PM
  #69  
livedarklions
Racerboyz' b'crat
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5087 Post(s)
Liked 4,389 Times in 2,472 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I have no idea.

I also lost almost 20 pounds in 4 weeks on a tour down under. When I went back into the office, colleague's jaws dropped. I wasn't trying to lose that much weight, it was the miles and spotty food availability. I got hungry a lot. That was 30 years ago. I hope my Gaul Bladder is ok

4 weeks isn't really what I'm talking about. It's going from morbidly obese to normal range. If you try to do that really fast, you can make yourself very sick. 20 pounds isn't trivial, but it's not massive weight loss.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 07:22 PM
  #70  
livedarklions
Racerboyz' b'crat
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5087 Post(s)
Liked 4,389 Times in 2,472 Posts
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Stop obsessing about calories....Calories counting is completely unnecessary.
For you, maybe. I absolutely needed to do it to start my weight loss.

This is the part of the thread where people who have never been obese lecture people who used to be obese on how they lost weight wrong, and that they never should have gotten fat in the first place.

You won a genetic lottery, and think it means you have it all figured out.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 07-20-21, 07:33 PM
  #71  
jayp410
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 14 Posts
I've found that when I start feeling hungry, like right before dinner, is a great time to exercise. The act of exercising makes me non-hungry for a while - like maybe 30 minutes after exercise ends.

Both cycling and day hikes keep me away from home, and away from the fridge. If I start at say 10 AM until 3 PM, basically I'm missing lunch, so I'll take an energy bar or something, but that bar is less calories than a normal lunch and/or snacks. On day hikes, I might be out even longer, like from 10 - 6, and never stop for fast food.

Cycling also helps with motivation. When I commit to cycling, and really get into it, then I really want hills to be easier... which motivates me to watch diet and eat less. As a 6' 4" guy when I went from 225 to 190, hills became so much easier to get over at the lighter weight. It was the difference between feeling nauseous after steep hills vs. feeling pretty competent on the bike. It's so much more enjoyable to ride at a lower weight.
jayp410 is offline  
Likes For jayp410:
Old 07-20-21, 07:46 PM
  #72  
pgjackson
Senior Member
 
pgjackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL
Posts: 4,131

Bikes: Rossetti Vertigo

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked 111 Times in 69 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Careful, you're getting close to "you're doing it wrong" territory with the "you" stuff at the end. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just saying I don't find eating "for entertainment" occasionally at all destructive with the really high level of activity I maintain. And I actually haven't set myself back with big meals after my giant workouts, if anything I just put on a bit more muscle.
I'm a pretty extreme case in respect to how much time per week I'm working out, so a lot of the stuff you're saying just really doesn't apply to me very much. I don't think much of what I say works for me would apply to many people, so I just describe it and people have the choice of trying it or not trying it.

I do think where these conversations go off the rails is when people start assuming they're the normal one. Everything I've read and seen about this is there really is no uniformity in how people make these things work successfully for them. That's why virtually all published diets and regimens are such failures, they're cookie cutter solutions for a very unruly species. Actually, this thread has been remarkably free of the condescending "it's simple" assertions, which is really refreshing.

I don't that you and I are really disagreeing here, just finding that we do very different things. Crossfit is something I wouldn't touch with a 20 foot pole, but I wouldn't have any reason to try to talk you out of it. I'm happy if it works for you.
You remind me of my old workout partner in the Marines. One of those guys who was naturally lean and muscular no matter what they ate. This guy could eat Popeyes fried chicken three times a day and still look like Apollo Creed. He and I lifted the same weight, had about the same cardio, but he was just always ripped. There are freaks like that out there that blow up the whole bell curve. You are correct, there are no cookie cutter solutions. Just lots of trial and error to see what works.
pgjackson is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 07:52 PM
  #73  
livedarklions
Racerboyz' b'crat
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5087 Post(s)
Liked 4,389 Times in 2,472 Posts
Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
You remind me of my old workout partner in the Marines. One of those guys who was naturally lean and muscular no matter what they ate. This guy could eat Popeyes fried chicken three times a day and still look like Apollo Creed. He and I lifted the same weight, had about the same cardio, but he was just always ripped. There are freaks like that out there that blow up the whole bell curve. You are correct, there are no cookie cutter solutions. Just lots of trial and error to see what works.
Nothing "natural" about it in my case. I do absurd amounts of cardio to be able to do this. Even so, if I ate Popeyes three times a day, I'm sure I'd get fat. But there's definitely guys like that, it really seems weird when you see it.

Last edited by livedarklions; 07-20-21 at 07:55 PM.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-20-21, 10:22 PM
  #74  
guachi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 468
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked 291 Times in 159 Posts
Originally Posted by pgjackson View Post
Bodybuilders who have to get bodyfat down to absurd levels think of food as simply fuel, not entertainment. I was kind of into that stuff in my younger days (but never got anywhere close to the results I expected)....a common theme from the pro guys is that mentality. You eat to fuel your body. Food is fuel. T-Nation is a pretty good forum if you are seriously into total fitness. Most of it is weightlifting and bodybuilding, but there are forums for pretty much everyone there.
Thinking of food simply as fuel is the only way I am able to cut back on eating. Luckily, I've otherwise been able to out exercise my bad diet.

But "food as fuel" is the only way I can be good when I eat. The alternative is always eating as little too much and having a 7,000 Calorie biking week and only losing one pound.

​​​​​​"Food as fuel" doesn't mean I don't care how my food tastes, it just means I try to ensure what I eat has some purpose other than "it's tasty and I'm hungry"

Last edited by guachi; 07-20-21 at 10:35 PM.
guachi is online now  
Likes For guachi:
Old 07-21-21, 05:02 AM
  #75  
livedarklions
Racerboyz' b'crat
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 9,838

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc

Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5087 Post(s)
Liked 4,389 Times in 2,472 Posts
Originally Posted by guachi View Post
Thinking of food simply as fuel is the only way I am able to cut back on eating. Luckily, I've otherwise been able to out exercise my bad diet.

But "food as fuel" is the only way I can be good when I eat. The alternative is always eating as little too much and having a 7,000 Calorie biking week and only losing one pound.

​​​​​​"Food as fuel" doesn't mean I don't care how my food tastes, it just means I try to ensure what I eat has some purpose other than "it's tasty and I'm hungry"

That's a good point, I'm basically where I want to be weight-wise, and not losing any weight on a 7000 calorie biking week would be normal for me. Looking back on it, I've never actually used cycling to lose significant amounts of weight, I lost 50 pounds working out intensely in the gym (watching TV during cardio, btw), then I took up distance biking. While I was doing the gym routine, I was definitely eating in the manner you describe, but I would let myself have a massive "cheat day" about once a month. For me, that turned out to be a pretty good strategy for losing fat and putting on muscle, AND lowering my weight. That cheat day, btw, usually consisted of going to a buffet and eating massive amounts of meat. This is definitely a "don't try this at home" kind of strategy , I suspect there's not a lot of people this would work for, and I definitely don't think my doctor would have approved.

On the not-cheat days, I was watching calories like a hawk while I was losing weight.

TL/DR-- I need to keep in mind that my perspective on this has changed as I went from weight loss to maintenance.
livedarklions is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.