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Calories and cycling

Old 07-21-21, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Stop obsessing about calories....Calories counting is completely unnecessary.
I find it's such a fine balance that counting calories is sometimes necessary to hit a specific target weight. I certainly don't calorie count all the time, but if I want to get from my "normal" 80 kg to 75 kg for a specific event then calorie counting is absolutely necessary for me. Using an App like MFP makes it pretty painless too. The alternative of just guessing doesn't really cut it for me. If I eat too little my performance starts to suffer and if I eat too much I don't hit my target weight. I have tried to get down to my fighting weight without calorie counting and failed every time. I might lose a couple of kg at best that way. If I wasn't trying to beat personal performance targets none of this would really matter.
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Old 07-21-21, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
4 weeks isn't really what I'm talking about. It's going from morbidly obese to normal range. If you try to do that really fast, you can make yourself very sick. 20 pounds isn't trivial, but it's not massive weight loss.
Agree. I mentioned in earlier post that I lost over 60 pounds. I have no experience with losing hundreds of pounds and did not know that was what was being discussed.

Cold Thermogenesis and low carb diet was how I lost the 60+ and only long steady distance rides. I know my body cannot handle intensity in those conditions. I burned it right off. 6 inches off the waste in just under 4 months.
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Old 07-21-21, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
I find it's such a fine balance that counting calories is sometimes necessary to hit a specific target weight. I certainly don't calorie count all the time, but if I want to get from my "normal" 80 kg to 75 kg for a specific event then calorie counting is absolutely necessary for me. Using an App like MFP makes it pretty painless too. The alternative of just guessing doesn't really cut it for me. If I eat too little my performance starts to suffer and if I eat too much I don't hit my target weight. I have tried to get down to my fighting weight without calorie counting and failed every time. I might lose a couple of kg at best that way. If I wasn't trying to beat personal performance targets none of this would really matter.
Ignore him - he's made these same dumb assertions recently and thinks that, because he's never counted calories, everyone should be the same; egocentrism at its finest.
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Old 07-21-21, 07:10 AM
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Well, I had the best weight loss when I was counting calories and making sure I didn't overdo it when eating. I think most people tend to "forget" or not realize how many calories they're eating in a day and then overestimate the number of calories they're burning, and then wonder why they can't lose weight.
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Old 07-21-21, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Stop obsessing about calories....Calories counting is completely unnecessary.
Yeah, we already covered this already. Stop assuming your experience is universal, especially since a bunch of us already debunked it.
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Old 07-21-21, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Yeah, we already covered this already. Stop assuming your experience is universal, especially since a bunch of us already debunked it.

He does this on every weight thread. Every...single....one.....

I complain about these threads a lot, so I have to say this--this is the best one I've ever seen on BF. The "thinsplaining" has really been kept to a minimum, and people are really sharing different approaches without trying to force them on others.
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Old 07-21-21, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
Well, I had the best weight loss when I was counting calories and making sure I didn't overdo it when eating. I think most people tend to "forget" or not realize how many calories they're eating in a day and then overestimate the number of calories they're burning, and then wonder why they can't lose weight.
Exactly. Once you start counting calories, you start discovering just how far off your estimates have been.

The other thing is, if you THINK you're still eating the same amount, but just adding exercise, but not counting, you'll THINK you're eating the same amount, but actually you're not.
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Old 07-24-21, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
It's entirely possible, but maybe not without paying attention to both sides of the Calorie equation. I say this because I lost 30 lbs last year. I was only able to do so by counting Calories rigorously and riding 3000 miles. It doesn't require a huge sacrifice in what you eat, just fewer snacks, smaller snacks, not going back for seconds quite as often, having a glass of water instead of yet another Coke or a beer. Those little things add up, and combined with Calorie-burning exercise, will take weight off.

BTW, I've also tried just riding a lot and NOT paying attention to what I eat. I got fitter, but never got below 220. Now I'm right around 200, +/-2 lbs, and have been for 7 months. I've also had years where I hardly lost weight at all, because I more than compensated at the dinner table for what I burned on the bike.
do you continue to eat the same as you did when losing weight through calorie counting, or do you naturally eat less after weight loss? Like lower appetite?
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Old 07-24-21, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Awesomeguy
do you continue to eat the same as you did when losing weight through calorie counting, or do you naturally eat less after weight loss? Like lower appetite?
Hmmmm. I eat a bit more than I did while losing the weight, but not as much as I did before. I'm more mindful of what I'm eating. And some days, I fall off the wagon. But a lot of it is paying attention when I'm shopping for food not to buy the things I'm likely to binge on. After calorie counting for most of a year, you remember things like a Coke is 1/8 of a day's calories, or little 1/4 cup of nuts could be 1/5 of a days calories.
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Old 07-24-21, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
or little 1/4 cup of nuts could be 1/5 of a days calories.
So true! My mother-in-law has been trying to lose weight forever. She got the idea to eat nuts as a more healthy snack (which they are) but she didnít take into account their calorie density. So she munched her way through large packets of nuts and wondered why she was still putting on weight. Whenever I eat nuts I literally weigh out a sensible portion size into a dish and put the bag out of reach!
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Old 07-24-21, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
So true! My mother-in-law has been trying to lose weight forever. She got the idea to eat nuts as a more healthy snack (which they are) but she didnít take into account their calorie density. So she munched her way through large packets of nuts and wondered why she was still putting on weight. Whenever I eat nuts I literally weigh out a sensible portion size into a dish and put the bag out of reach!
I remember in high school we did an experiment where we lit bits of Brazil Nut on fire and used the flame to heat a measured quantity of water in a crude calorimeter. The fact that nuts contain so much oil that they will burn tells you a lot about caloric content!
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Old 07-24-21, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Hmmmm. I eat a bit more than I did while losing the weight, but not as much as I did before. I'm more mindful of what I'm eating. And some days, I fall off the wagon. But a lot of it is paying attention when I'm shopping for food not to buy the things I'm likely to binge on. After calorie counting for most of a year, you remember things like a Coke is 1/8 of a day's calories, or little 1/4 cup of nuts could be 1/5 of a days calories.
when you were cutting calories did you feel hungry and weak? I’ll give you an example if I cut 200 calories by switching to egg whites for breakfast I get so tired and weak, mind you I eat 3 meals a day and my breakfast is 750 calories , my largest meal (100g oatmeal, 4 whole eggs and banana ), and I have 1 snack between bf and lunch and lunch and dinner

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Old 07-24-21, 12:10 PM
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A really good firestarter when backpacking are Fritos. I would not use my nuts, too valuable.
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Old 07-24-21, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Awesomeguy
when you were cutting calories did you feel hungry and weak? Iíll give you an example if I cut 200 calories by switching to egg whites for breakfast I get so tired and weak, mind you I eat 3 meals a day and my breakfast is 750 calories , my largest meal (100g oatmeal, 4 whole eggs and banana ), and I have 1 snack between bf and lunch and lunch and dinner
That's not how I looked at it. Instead, I went with a website (MyFitnessPal) that took my weight and age, my target weight, and when I wanted to get there, and it gave me 2160 calories a day as a goal.

My usual breakfast is about 280 calories, which gets me through till 1 PM not feeling either weak or hungry. Then lunch is about 500 calories, and that gets me through till 6 PM. Dinner is about 900-1000 calories, and that leaves another 300 calories for snacking. If I ride, that's between 500 and 900 calories extra I can eat, depending on how long and how hard I ride. If you're not eating out and you're cooking your own food, a 900 calorie dinner can be quite a lot of food. Just don't eat fried crap.

The biggest problem for me is that I'm often really hungry by 6PM and if dinner isn't ready I can vacuum up the snacks.
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Old 07-24-21, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
That's not how I looked at it. Instead, I went with a website (MyFitnessPal) that took my weight and age, my target weight, and when I wanted to get there, and it gave me 2160 calories a day as a goal.

My usual breakfast is about 280 calories, which gets me through till 1 PM not feeling either weak or hungry. Then lunch is about 500 calories, and that gets me through till 6 PM. Dinner is about 900-1000 calories, and that leaves another 300 calories for snacking. If I ride, that's between 500 and 900 calories extra I can eat, depending on how long and how hard I ride. If you're not eating out and you're cooking your own food, a 900 calorie dinner can be quite a lot of food. Just don't eat fried crap.

The biggest problem for me is that I'm often really hungry by 6PM and if dinner isn't ready I can vacuum up the snacks.
Thatís exactly what I did, although I tended to eat a larger breakfast and often skipped lunch. No weakness with a moderate target weight loss, but had to remain focused on the calorie count.
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Old 07-24-21, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
That's not how I looked at it. Instead, I went with a website (MyFitnessPal) that took my weight and age, my target weight, and when I wanted to get there, and it gave me 2160 calories a day as a goal.

My usual breakfast is about 280 calories, which gets me through till 1 PM not feeling either weak or hungry. Then lunch is about 500 calories, and that gets me through till 6 PM. Dinner is about 900-1000 calories, and that leaves another 300 calories for snacking. If I ride, that's between 500 and 900 calories extra I can eat, depending on how long and how hard I ride. If you're not eating out and you're cooking your own food, a 900 calorie dinner can be quite a lot of food. Just don't eat fried crap.

The biggest problem for me is that I'm often really hungry by 6PM and if dinner isn't ready I can vacuum up the snacks.
how tall are you? And your total weight loss was 30lb sticking to 2160 calories?
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Old 07-24-21, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Exactly. Once you start counting calories, you start discovering just how far off your estimates have been.
It's similar to "why do I always have no savings?" Once you start closely tracking where your money is going you'll find all the little dollars add up. Same with when you look at your food intake. All the little calories add up. I'm in the Navy and frequently do financial counselings with junior Sailors. They are required to total up their income (which is easy) and their expenses.

I always ask if they have as much surplus money at the end of the month as they claim. They never do. They've always underestimated their expenses. I'm sure nutritionists have the same thing happen all the time when talking about food intake to people. Everyone is undereating and mysteriously still gaining weight.
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Old 07-24-21, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Awesomeguy
how tall are you? And your total weight loss was 30lb sticking to 2160 calories?
6'. Started at 230. Now 200+/- 2 lb depending on the day. Plus I'm riding 125-140 miles/week.
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Old 07-26-21, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Branko D
When calculating calories based on power meter data, no - conventional wisdom has it that cyclists don't actually differ all that much (the range last I looked at studies - admittedly with trained cyclists - was about is +- 10%) when it comes to turning calories into watts. Of course your basal metabolic rate differs based on age, sex, weight, height and so on but taking that into account is a bit iffy - you'd have expended (a good part of) that anyway just being alive.

Generally, 200W (which on a road bike on flat terrain with no wind is good for about 31-35 km/hr depending on how aerodynamic you are and how efficient the bike is) requires about 720 kcal plus whatever your basic metabolic rate is (which depends on weight, sex, etc) comes out to let's say about 800 to get a nice round number, so 430 kcal for going hard for half a hour is entirely feasible (or more, or less).

As long as you're watchful what and how much of it you put in your mouth, cycling is going to help.
This is interesting, so you think things like age, gender, and weight, make no difference when considering calories burned?

Also, if 200w on a road bike is equivalent to 31-35km/hr, what would the velocity to watts be, if i'm 15 mph on a fitness hybrid bike?
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Old 07-26-21, 10:17 AM
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The only way age, gender, or weight would affect how many Calories are burned for a 200W effort is if those things influenced the rider's efficiency. And I've not seen any evidence they actually do.

So no, age, gender, and weight won't have any effect on Calories burned.
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Old 07-26-21, 10:25 AM
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if age, gender & lbs were not factors for the amount of calories burned, then explain why it's part of the one type of formula used.
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Old 07-26-21, 10:49 AM
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Age, sex, and weight impact the probability of someone being able to exert 200 watts for an extended period.

But, 200 watts for an hour burns about the same calories for all of us, ignoring efficiency which varies a little from person to person.

200 watts x 3600 seconds/hr is roughly 720 kilo joules and is roughly how many calories one would burn at 200 watts for an hour, irrespective of weight, sex, and age.
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Old 07-26-21, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Troul
if age, gender & lbs were not factors for the amount of calories burned, then explain why it's part of the one type of formula used.
Most of those formulas are for idiots.

Which formula is your favorite?
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Old 07-26-21, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Most of those formulas are for idiots.

Which formula is your favorite?

The best calculator is individual's mouth.
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Old 07-26-21, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Awesomeguy
This is interesting, so you think things like age, gender, and weight, make no difference when considering calories burned?

Also, if 200w on a road bike is equivalent to 31-35km/hr, what would the velocity to watts be, if i'm 15 mph on a fitness hybrid bike?
Bike Calculator can tell you. Just give it your weight, choose your hand position, bike weight, etc. I used 200 lbs, 24# bike, 15 mph, 30 minutes, bar tops, and got 200 calories.
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