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Calories and cycling

Old 07-30-21, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Knowing what works and what doesn't comes through self-experimentation and trail and error, that's the way I do it...
Do you ever read books to leverage collective, expert scientific knowledge before self-experimentation and trial and error?

Iím not saying you personally need to in this particular case, but you would almost certainly find something useful if you were better read.
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Old 07-30-21, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Do you ever read books to leverage collective, expert scientific knowledge before self-experimentation and trial and error?

Iím not saying you personally need to in this particular case, but you would almost certainly find something useful if you were better read.
Nutrition and exercise and how it affects human body has always been one of my great interests, so yes I do read articles on nutrition / exercise studies. Sometimes I will put what I read to the test just to see how it affects me.
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Old 07-30-21, 01:27 PM
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If you eat a surplus of calories each day of any type of food you will gain weight.

If you eat a deficit of calories of any type of food each day you will lose weight.

See how simple this is : )
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Old 07-30-21, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
If you eat a surplus of calories each day of any type of food you will gain weight.

If you eat a deficit of calories of any type of food each day you will lose weight.

See how simple this is : )
If it was as simple as you say then we wouldn't have so many overweight people out there including overweight cyclists and other physically active people who are overweight despite being physically active. It's a little bit more complicated than just CICO.
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Old 07-30-21, 01:44 PM
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If there are not universal truths about metabolism, disease and health, why does big Pharma spend billions and billions on clinical trials? Shouldn't they just design a treatment for each snowflake?

Here is a universal truth. If you want to lose weight, duct tape your mouth shut between meals and after 6 pm.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
If it was as simple as you say then we wouldn't have so many overweight people out there including overweight cyclists and other physically active people who are overweight despite being physically active. It's a little bit more complicated than just CICO.
Actually, it is that simple. If you eat a surplus of calories you will gain. Fat cyclists and fat joggers eat more than they need. If they ate less than was required to power their bodies each day they would lose weight. It could be a surplus of celery but if you only required say 1000 calories a day and ate 10K calories of celery you would gain weight. I'm not a nutritionist or doctor so there may be very rare cases where a deficit of calories will result in weight gain or no weight lost but it would be very rare and caused by a medical condition.

We have obese people in this country because people eat more calories than they need to exist. as a being. If you require 2K calories a day and you ate 2K of Snickers bar you would not gain weight. You would be unhealthy and since that is very simplistic you would probably not live very long on Snickers alone due to nutritional deficiencies.

I only say this to make it easy to understand and there are many posts above that delve into detailed strategies and science etc. but boiled down to its most basic element .... people in this country eat way way more than is required and exercise way way less than they should. That is where the obesity epidemic in this country comes from. There is plenty of wiggle room but when people struggle to lose weight it almost always boils down to diet.

We have 250K plus years of evolution that have programed our bodies to store every surplus calorie for lean times. Those lean times do not exist any longer.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
If there are not universal truths about metabolism, disease and health, why does big Pharma spend billions and billions on clinical trials? Shouldn't they just design a treatment for each snowflake?

Here is a universal truth. If you want to lose weight, duct tape your mouth shut between meals and after 6 pm.
Are you under the impression that would be easier and cheaper? Because if so, I have some bad news for you.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
Actually, it is that simple. If you eat a surplus of calories you will gain. Fat cyclists and fat joggers eat more than they need. If they ate less than was required to power their bodies each day they would lose weight. It could be a surplus of celery but if you only required say 1000 calories a day and ate 10K calories of celery you would gain weight. I'm not a nutritionist or doctor so there may be very rare cases where a deficit of calories will result in weight gain or no weight lost but it would be very rare and caused by a medical condition.

We have obese people in this country because people eat more calories than they need to exist. as a being. If you require 2K calories a day and you ate 2K of Snickers bar you would not gain weight. You would be unhealthy and since that is very simplistic you would probably not live very long on Snickers alone due to nutritional deficiencies.

I only say this to make it easy to understand and there are many posts above that delve into detailed strategies and science etc. but boiled down to its most basic element .... people in this country eat way way more than is required and exercise way way less than they should. That is where the obesity epidemic in this country comes from. There is plenty of wiggle room but when people struggle to lose weight it almost always boils down to diet.

We have 250K plus years of evolution that have programed our bodies to store every surplus calorie for lean times. Those lean times do not exist any longer.
Right. There are all sort of subtleties around how many calories any particular individual burns in a day, and other subtleties about the effects of the particular foods from which they gain their calories, but in the end if Calories In < Calories Out, you'll lose weight.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Right. There are all sort of subtleties around how many calories any particular individual burns in a day, and other subtleties about the effects of the particular foods from which they gain their calories, but in the end if Calories In < Calories Out, you'll lose weight.
Yep ....those subtleties are very important too but really wont make much difference until trying to reach a specific goal. There are large factors and then the small stuff and how much you stuff your face is a huge factor. I lost 25 pounds a few years back and losing the last 5 required drastic measures from a calorie intake standpoint .... wasn't fun.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Are you under the impression that would be easier and cheaper? Because if so, I have some bad news for you.
HaHa

Very funny

I worked 40 years there.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
Actually, it is that simple. If you eat a surplus of calories you will gain. Fat cyclists and fat joggers eat more than they need. If they ate less than was required to power their bodies each day they would lose weight. It could be a surplus of celery but if you only required say 1000 calories a day and ate 10K calories of celery you would gain weight. I'm not a nutritionist or doctor so there may be very rare cases where a deficit of calories will result in weight gain or no weight lost but it would be very rare and caused by a medical condition.

We have obese people in this country because people eat more calories than they need to exist. as a being. If you require 2K calories a day and you ate 2K of Snickers bar you would not gain weight. You would be unhealthy and since that is very simplistic you would probably not live very long on Snickers alone due to nutritional deficiencies.

I only say this to make it easy to understand and there are many posts above that delve into detailed strategies and science etc. but boiled down to its most basic element .... people in this country eat way way more than is required and exercise way way less than they should. That is where the obesity epidemic in this country comes from. There is plenty of wiggle room but when people struggle to lose weight it almost always boils down to diet.

We have 250K plus years of evolution that have programed our bodies to store every surplus calorie for lean times. Those lean times do not exist any longer.
Stating the blatantly obvious is not really very useful. Everyone knows that eating too much easily accessible junk food while living a sedentary lifestyle will probably make them obese. So you don't really need to state it again for anyone who might have been living under a rock.

So it is far more interesting to discuss the nuances of diet and exercise that people might not be necessarily aware of.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
HaHa

Very funny

I worked 40 years there.
Me, too!
You aren't secretly me, are you?
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Old 07-30-21, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
Yep ....those subtleties are very important too but really wont make much difference until trying to reach a specific goal. There are large factors and then the small stuff and how much you stuff your face is a huge factor. I lost 25 pounds a few years back and losing the last 5 required drastic measures from a calorie intake standpoint .... wasn't fun.
I lost 30# last year and am currently stalled at 200#, largely because I'm not motivated to cut back further, because at 30# lighter, everything in cycling is easier, except maybe straight, no-brakes descents.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Stating the blatantly obvious is not really very useful. Everyone knows that eating too much easily accessible junk food while living a sedentary lifestyle will probably make them obese. So you don't really need to state it again for anyone who might have been living under a rock.

So it is far more interesting to discuss the nuances of diet and exercise that people might not be necessarily aware of.
Then feel free to skip my rebuttal to those that came out from under their rock long enough to refute my blatantly obvious and useless post and continue with your nuanced discussion. Some levity is often needed when the nuanced becomes tedious.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I lost 30# last year and am currently stalled at 200#, largely because I'm not motivated to cut back further, because at 30# lighter, everything in cycling is easier, except maybe straight, no-brakes descents.
Having visible abs wasn't all it was cracked up to be for me so I gained 10 pounds back and am much happier lol.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:31 PM
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Then, the discussion should focus on Leptin, Ghrelin, PGC-1α, SIRT1, AMPK and others rather than GIGO. How does exercise timing, extent, and intensity when combined with specific foods result in improved metabolism. Certainly, genetics play a role but taping one's mouth shut isn't a bad start.

Intermittent fasting and long Z2 rides are helpful. Cold thermogenesis is helpful. Keeping carb ingestion down helps, especially avoiding spikes in insulin helps a lot.

More importantly, how do fat people break the cycle of leptin and insulin resistance.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
Actually, it is that simple. If you eat a surplus of calories you will gain. Fat cyclists and fat joggers eat more than they need. If they ate less than was required to power their bodies each day they would lose weight. It could be a surplus of celery but if you only required say 1000 calories a day and ate 10K calories of celery you would gain weight. I'm not a nutritionist or doctor so there may be very rare cases where a deficit of calories will result in weight gain or no weight lost but it would be very rare and caused by a medical condition.

We have obese people in this country because people eat more calories than they need to exist. as a being. If you require 2K calories a day and you ate 2K of Snickers bar you would not gain weight. You would be unhealthy and since that is very simplistic you would probably not live very long on Snickers alone due to nutritional deficiencies.

I only say this to make it easy to understand and there are many posts above that delve into detailed strategies and science etc. but boiled down to its most basic element .... people in this country eat way way more than is required and exercise way way less than they should. That is where the obesity epidemic in this country comes from. There is plenty of wiggle room but when people struggle to lose weight it almost always boils down to diet.

We have 250K plus years of evolution that have programed our bodies to store every surplus calorie for lean times. Those lean times do not exist any longer.
You are right to a certain degree if losing weight is your only concern. Personally. I have no desire to be a skinny corpse. I could have had 160 lbs sucked off my body or had my jaws wired shut, or stomach stapled up smaller, and every way, I would have lost weight. I tried to choose the most healthy way to do it that would work for me. Someone else might have to choose a different path.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
Then feel free to skip my rebuttal to those that came out from under their rock long enough to refute my blatantly obvious and useless post and continue with your nuanced discussion. Some levity is often needed when the nuanced becomes tedious.
Fair enough. I think this thread has long passed itís use-by date, especially in relation to the title.
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Old 07-30-21, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
Yep ....those subtleties are very important too but really wont make much difference until trying to reach a specific goal. There are large factors and then the small stuff and how much you stuff your face is a huge factor. I lost 25 pounds a few years back and losing the last 5 required drastic measures from a calorie intake standpoint .... wasn't fun.

I don't believe reaching the specific goal is the hard part. People lose weight all the time, the major problem is that they cannot maintain the balance of calories in vs. out and put the weight back on. Virtually all diets have a pretty consistent pattern of initial success followed by nearly inevitable failure. The one year results of pretty much all of them are quite terrible.

My sense is that many of us have bodies that were evolved to store fat during times of plenty to burn during times of scarcity, and now we're in an era where food is overabundant all of the time. Convincing your body that the best thing to do is to ignore your instincts is exhausting, and I really had to put a very major effort into retraining myself, now I have to be ever vigilant about creeping gradually back into old habits. That's generally a lot harder than it sounds, it's literally making dozens of small decisions all day every day.

Being fat really sucks. If this was just a simple math problem, there wouldn't be fat people.

I know if I started eating three or four 18 inch pizzas a week like I used to I would put the weight back on real quick. I'm not going to do that overnight. The real problem comes in when I make a series of decisions, none of which in isolation will seem unreasonable, but together will creep up into ramping up the calories and probably decreasing my activity.

Gotta tell you, losing 140 pounds is a lot different than losing 25 btw.
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Old 07-30-21, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Stating the blatantly obvious is not really very useful. Everyone knows that eating too much easily accessible junk food while living a sedentary lifestyle will probably make them obese. So you don't really need to state it again for anyone who might have been living under a rock.

So it is far more interesting to discuss the nuances of diet and exercise that people might not be necessarily aware of.
But we do because a lot of people here keep saying "it's not that simple". It really is for the huge majority of people. Yet here we are 9 pages into a thread discussing it because a lot of people want to make it overly complicated with anecdotal stories, scientific data and rare medical conditions. A lot of it sounds like excuses to me. THAT is why we have an obesity problem. Too many excuses, not enough self control.

Last edited by pgjackson; 07-30-21 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 07-30-21, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
Having visible abs wasn't all it was cracked up to be for me so I gained 10 pounds back and am much happier lol.
I've had abs twice in my life. Once was when I was 35 I did a program called Body for Life. The formula was eat less and exercise a lot. A lot of HIIT training every day. Had to change the way I ate also. It was hard to do, but it worked. But, it wasn't permanent. The other time was when I was 42 and going through a VERY stressful 5-6 months and I simply had no appetite. My body's natural reaction to extreme mental stress is a loss of appetite. I didn't work out at all. Just the reduced calories did the trick. Again the weight came back eventually once the dust settled. I could stand to lose about 10-20lbs right now, but I'm pretty happy where I'm at so I'm not motivated to do anything crazy to get back to my fighting weight.
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Old 07-30-21, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by pgjackson
But we do because a lot of people here keep saying "it's not that easy". It really is for the huge majority of people.
I'd go with the ol' "it's simple, but it's not easy."
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Old 07-30-21, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I'd go with the ol' "it's simple, but it's not easy."
Yeah, that.
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Old 07-30-21, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I'd go with the ol' "it's simple, but it's not easy."
Thanks, you beat me to it.
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Old 08-01-21, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by pgjackson
But we do because a lot of people here keep saying "it's not that simple". It really is for the huge majority of people. Yet here we are 9 pages into a thread discussing it because a lot of people want to make it overly complicated with anecdotal stories, scientific data and rare medical conditions. A lot of it sounds like excuses to me. THAT is why we have an obesity problem. Too many excuses, not enough self control.

What a load of crap! Who the heck are you to define what the problem is for "the vast majority of people"?

If you've eliminated "anecdotal stories, scientific data and rare medical conditions" that aren't actually rare, what are you basing your great insight that lecturing people about self control is of any use whatsoever?

Obviously, at some level, this is about learning to regulate calorie intake and activity, but again, that's like saying the purpose of playing baseball is to score more runs than the other team. That tells you nothing about how to do that. There's nothing simple about reorganizing one's life to change their relationship with food and activity and the proof of that is the extremely high failure rate of diet and exercise programs. The people who "fail" are not dumber or somehow weaker than you, and really gain nothing from having your "tsk, tsk, it's so simple" put in front of stuff so obvious they've already told themselves it a zillion times.

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