Dany6

Hey guys, i need your help with something.
I've sent my (road) bike on a big service,and i asked them if the chain needs to be replaced as well,they replied to me that the chain has to be replaced when it's stretched 75%,and that mine is 100% worn out so they'll try a new chain on and if it skips at cassette cogs,the cassette needs to be replaced as well.But they didn't told me if they actually tried just a new chain on,and they've just sent me pics of chain and cassette that they'll replace.
Don't know how much you can tell if cassette cogs are worn out and need replacement,but the cassette looks fine to me to be driven much more still.
And how compatible is a Shimano chain and cassette with Campagnolo derailleur (you can see new chain and new cassette that they recommended on the bottom on the link).
As you can see on the pics both derailleurs and shifters as well are Campagnolo,so would there any problem with that?
And i'm not sure if they wanna rip me off with changing the cassette,bcz it looks fine to me?What you guys think.
CLICKFORPICS
Thank you .

Iride01 

Don't go by looks. Go by what it does after the new chain is put on. If the chain skips on the rear or front when you put some effort into pedaling you definitely need a new cassette or chain rings. Though on a bike that old, I'd expect it's time.

Litho dbh

Is cassette and chain same mileage? Replace.

I tend to replace chain and sprockets as a set, on both motor and pedal bikes.

I've only been sorry when I didn't adhere to this protocol.

cxwrench

First 75% and 100% are NOT the way chain wear is described. If your shop mechanic is using these terms you should find a new one. The correct way to say this is '.075mm - .1mm' over the length (usually 4") of the tool. The Shimano chain will work w/ a Campy cassette just fine. Do you have a Campy wheel? It looks like your cassette is Shimano and they normally don't play well with Campy shifters/derailleurs. Most of the cogs on your existing cassette look worn to me. No way to know whether they'd work w/ a new chain other than to try it. If it skips put the new cassette on.
And this post should obviously be in 'bicycle mechanics', not GD.

CliffordK

Oh, what a pain. Your Imagur wants to SLOWLY download each huge photo over and over again. Then it jumped to other random pages twice...

It is so much better to just pick out the couple most important photos and upload here.

As far as the cassette photos, I don't see any significant wear. Like you said above, the proof will be whether it skips when riding. And, even if it lightly skips, you may be able to baby it until the next chain wears out.

The chainrings look very good.

Whew, I finally got the picture to download showing Campy shifters. Xenon?

The cassette will be determined by the rear hub/freehub.


https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycl...ing_Dimensions

Campagnolo 9-speed was a bit of a mess.

A "New" Campagnolo 9-speed Shifter (Xenon) paired with an "Old" Campagnolo 8 or 9-speed rear derailleur works very well with the Shimano 9-speed rear cassette.

I kind of think that is your configuration. So, the Shimano cassette may well be the correct cassette.

If you pull the wheel and look at the lock ring, that will confirm my suspicion that you are using a Shimano cassette/freehub.

unterhausen

I have never been able to tell by looks, but if I could, that cassette looks very worn and I'm pretty sure it's going to skip with a new chain. I always replace them together. Maybe if I used more expensive cassettes, I wouldn't do that.

It's unlikely they are trying to rip you off. They might be trying to avoid you coming back unhappy

CliffordK

Oh, and the Shimano chains are fine. The Campagnolo Record 9-s chains are also very good, and not too expensive.

Nachoman

I tend to replace the cassette less frequently.
I replace about two or three chains per cassette.

Dany6

Yeah then i'll probably just have it replaced.

Yes they're the same mileage,i'll have it replaced then,thanks .

I'm not sure if he meant it the same way you said but for some reason he just said it 75%-100%....No,it's not a Campy wheel tho.
You mean the cassette that's on the bike from pics is Shimano?i honestly don't know since i didn't pay attention to it.
But...on a ride i was always having problems when shifting to largest cog in the back (13-26) with the chain start to immensely rub against the front derailleur's cage,that happens only when i'm on the first largest cog while climbing (so i never really used that cog),while with 2nd largest and others it doesn't rub....And btw don't know if it's a normal thing,but when i'm on the smallest front cog and for an example 2nd or 3rd cog in the back,the chain looks kinda cross chained...So i guess it's normal right?i don't cross chain by shifting to biggest up front and biggest in the back tho.
I didn't knew i should've posted it to "bicycle mechanics" so sry about that.

indyfabz

Sane here, at least on the touring/commuter bike.
1:3 cassette to chain ratio. Maybe 1:2 once after a higher than normal loaded mileage year.

Trevtassie

That cassette is clearly toasted. Especially on the higher gears, so bad it's actually mushroomed the driving faces of the teeth, worn right through the case hardening and that's now peelingaway... There is zero chance a new chain will work on it.

The mechanic dude saying 75% or 100% worn is fair enough, just a way of saying to somebody who knows not much about bikes how bad the situation is. I'd probably guess though, looking at those teeth, the chain is 120% worn... not many chain checkers go to 120%!

Rolla

There's a tool that measures cog wear, so you don't have to solely rely on trial-and-error. And some shops will refer to your chain wear in percentages, because that's how they interpret the chain wear indicators that have .075 and .05 markings on them. cxwrench is correct about the terminology, but IMO it's nothing to fire your mechanic over.

Cog wear indicator:




Chain wear indicator (note markings on right):

cyccommute 

While you are correct on that wear isn’t measured in “75%”…it’s 0.5% to 0.75% to, possibly, 1.0% on very old tools…you are very incorrect about the measurement being “0.075mm to 0.1mm”. Using inches, a chain that shows 0.5% wear is 0.06” (or 1/16”) over 12”. One that shows 0.75% is 0.09”. For the rest of the world that would be 1.5mm and 2.3mm, respectively. Even over a tool that is 4” long, the wear at 0.5% would be 0.5mm (0.02”) while a 0.75% measurement would be 0.76mm (0.3”). A chain that shows 0.075 to 1.0mm wear over 4” (about 100mm) is basically still a new chain.

The reason that people interpret the wear indicators in percentages is because that’s what Park Tool tells them to do. From Park Tool

As to the cassette checker, the Rohloff has been around for ages but not very many people use it. It’s a bit expensive for what it is which may be part of the problem. It’s a bit limited…21 teeth…but the smaller cogs are generally the ones that wear the fastest.

Russ Roth

Actually I preferred to use a similar line, tell people who have no clue what wear is such a small number and you get some funny looks over how little wear there is. Personally this is why I always liked to check the chain in front of the customer when it was brought in. No numbers to deal with at all; if the dial is blue you're good to go, blue and red showing you should replace, red you need to replace and I can spin the dial all the way around you need a new drivetrain. Really wish Park still made the old checkers, I know the new are a bit more accurate but that old dial showed people better.

PDKL45

With 9 speed chains you should get 3-4 chains per cassette and 3-4 cassettes per set of chainrings. When the chain gets to 2,500 kms, put a chain checking tool on it, because chances are it's getting close. Don't go by kms ridden, go by the tool. There will always be posters who scoff at 2,500 kms for a single chain and will claim to have a chain with 5,000 kms on it, which is just fine for them. Ignore any of that, though, and look at what the chain checking tool's telling you.

But hasn't your chain been noisy? When my chains get to about the 2,000 kms mark, they start getting really noisy. Chain lube helps to an extent, but there is a stage they reach where all the oil in the world won't stop the worn out chain noise. I know it's time to start thinking about a change when I hear that noise and soak the chain in lube to make it quiet for another week or so.

GhostRider62

The chain is presumably at 1% and is very worn out, which very likely wore out the cassette. It is like rotors and pads on cars. Mechanics want to replace them at the same time to avoid complaints. The solution is doing your own maintenance. It is very likely both are shot. It is just the way it goes, they like to replace them both at the same time.

I keep a pretty tight maintenance schedule on chains and have SRAM XG1190 cassettes that are at least 6 years old with tens of thousands of miles on them. I never replace a cassette unless it skips or shifts poorly with a new chain. Of course, this takes labor.

veganbikes

Please stop assuming people are trying to rip you off all the time. Look we are frequently seeing bikes that see a bare minimum of service and many people who only come in when the bike becomes nearly unrideable, we are trying to make the bike work as safely and optimally as possible. If your chain is worn it will usually also wear in your cassette and maybe just maybe you might be able to get a chain or two extra on that cassette but only with more frequent replacement and proper care and maintenance as well as good shifting practices.

Generally most mechanics have plenty of work to do and are not getting paid by the install or work they do (some are I am sure but not many) so adding extra work to a bike when it isn't needed is just silly, we would much rather crank more bikes out and get the schedule moving along so we have fewer customers complaining that it takes time to work on a bike and their bike should be magically pushed ahead of all the other bikes because they have something or another that is so much more important than everyone else who came before them. I don't mean it to sound like a jerk but it is the way things are. I understand we all want our bikes bike quickly but we also want them to work right and we don't want to have to keep coming back in for issues in short periods of time.

If you want to talk scams look at the various large corporations that skirt by without paying taxes and get all sorts of breaks and deals to take over cities create more traffic pay employees less or treat them worse...not to get all P&R section but you know if we are talking scams, shams and flim-flams I can bet you if the CEOs and their corporations paid their fair share of taxes we could all pay less taxes and have more money to spend on cassettes ; )

CliffordK

Where are you?

Croatia?

So, is that 89 Croatian Kuna = $14 USD?

There is a point where the cost/value of labor is more than the cost of consumable parts. Of course economies are different everywhere.

I still would have put the new chain on and did a test ride with the old cassette before replacing. If one can't force it to skip with a new chain, then it will be good for at least another chain.

Prowler 

These are the two devices I use at our LBS. No, we do not just "run up the bill" with claims of worn parts. I don't say "stretch" or "%wear". We consider 1.0 end of life and best to change at 0.5. I say "half worn out" or "half way to end of life" or "it's the most worn chain I've ever seen". Eh, I've only actually said that once.

And I do not just put a new chain on then try to get it to skip on an old cassette or FW. Thats a huge waist of time at $75/hr. That's how to run up the bill. I check things then talk to the customer. I like that chain checker but you need to use it a lot and get a feel for it. And i am also puzzled at the price. I made one for my home shop - bit of scrap cherry wood, length of surplus new chain, a zip tie and good to go. I'm now looking for a length of 11spd chain to make another one. The Rohloff checker will not work on 10spd or 11spd cogs (nor 12, 13, 14 spd when we get there)

Dany6

No it's BAM (Bosnian Mark),BAM is written with "KM" and Croatian Kuna "KN",i wish it was that cheap hehe,it's 53-54 USD.

CliffordK

Ahhh... I first thought that was Euros and the prices had gone bonkers. $50-ish is what I'm seeing online.

I was looking at my order history, and bought some HG400, 9 speed 11-25 cassettes from Ribble in 2017 for $13.98 each minus about 10% with free shipping.

urbanknight

I have one of these and the chain starts skipping BEFORE it even indicates 0.5. I'm sure each item varies, but it seems they don't keep close tolerances on this tool's production.

Rolla

(a) A chain can skip for reasons other than chain wear.
(b) Other tools are available. I only posted that one because of the "percentage" discussion.

urbanknight

A) Yeah, but every chain I had on 5 different bikes for 10 years made me suspect the tool. Checking with a metal ruler verified that.
B) I figured, but wanted to warn the OP and anyone else reading this that there are probably better tools for the job. I have no idea how any of the other tools measure up (pun intended), or even other units of the same one I had, because the metal ruler worked well enough to not need one.

edit: Actually, looking at your picture of various options, I think I had the third one down and not the second. I assume the longer they are, the more likely they are to be accurate (or at least closer).

Rolla

Agreed, but any tool is better than none. Based on shop experience (and dozens of BF threads), it's clear that chain and cog wear often goes unchecked until there's a problem, at which point it's usually necessary to replace both. "Ounce of prevention," and all that...