Bike positioning
 

Hello. I have a problem with my road bike. The top tube seems to be too long for me. When I do a long ride, my saddle is not confortable, I think it's because it's too far from the handlebar. My saddle is adjusted at max so I can't make it closer to the handlebar.

I have an idea, I would like to change the stem for a smaller. Is it a good idea ? Is there many sizes or is it universal ?

Do you have another idea or I should just change my bike ?

Thanks.

This is the right approach, and it could make your bike much more comfortable, assuming it's not way too long currently.

They come in a wide range of lengths, from about 60mm to at least 130mm. (MTB stems come even shorter, but the ones for road bikes start around 60, maybe a little shorter). You need to make sure to get the right size for your steering tube clamp (usually 1-1/8" for most quality road bikes made in the past decade or so) and your handlebar (again, for most modern bikes it's 31.8mm, but don't assume--measure it, or see if it's marked). They also come in various angles, and you can choose to angle them up or down according to the riding position you want.

All this assumes you don't have an older bike with a quill stem. Those are a whole different deal.

One more thing: If you can't quite get the reach short enough by just replacing the stem, there are different handlebar shapes and dimensions as well. Road bars are specified for width, reach, and drop. Replacing yours with one that has shorter reach could help, although this is usually more expensive and more difficult than replacing the stem.

Take the bike to a local bike shop and have them evaluate your fit and position while sitting and spinning the pedals. If you've no experience at determining what good fit is, a pro should be consulted. Money well spent. And yes, they can adjust the reach by swapping out stems. They come in assorted lengths as Broctoon stated as well as angles. Note though that you can only adjust so far, sometimes you find out the bike is too big or small.

Yes. Assuming your saddle is where it needs to be, the stem is the ideal part to change in order to reduce the reach. As Broctoon said, a handlebar with a shorter reach will do the same (except it won't affect your reach on the "tops" position). Considering your comment that the saddle is as far forward as it can go, however, you just might be on a bike that's way too big for you (especially if it's a zero setback seatpost). Steve's suggestion to have an expert fit you is a good idea in this case.

Saddle position is independent of reach; first adjust the seat for pedaling, then choose the right stem for reach. Also consider bar reach. Moving the saddle to compensate for reach is the wrong approach.

GO SEE A FITTER! Seriously people before you go out buying different stems and changing position drastically have a professional who has studied fit and some sports medicine and all the useful stuff take a look at you on the fit bike and adjust it till you get the most optimal position then let them transfer that to your bike and potentially go with any recommendations they might have. They would be able to recommend a stem and maybe seatpost and adjust everything so you are as optimally comfortable and in the best riding position for your unique body.

Oh, if only we had an entire subforum dedicated to Fitting Your Bike.... :twitchy:

Would you say that this is true for most types of riding? Whether racing, touring, commuting, etc., is the position to pedal always first in order, with other fittings following that lead?

yes! Get the saddle height/setback/angle wrt the BB first. Your legs are doing the work, so optimize their position first. After that, address the height and reach to the bars by adjusting stem reach, spacer stack, bar design (ie, leave the saddle position alone!). If you can’t get a good position without extremes in stem length or stack height, reconsider your frame size.

When you break it down into such simple terms it becomes obvious as hell. I think bike fit is one of those things that gets overanalyzed to a point where it becomes confusing. Good job in simplifying it, thanks.

What if it's a 1975 Schwinn, and all he needs to do is change his 120mm stem to an 80 by going down to the co-op and spending $10?

Not everyone needs a pro to tell them how to spend $300.

Bike fit is a very personal, body specific process. Other than that, this is all opinion. Personally, I would not pay a bike fitter. One just has to be willing to try changes in the set up, small increments works better. I wonder, has anyone ever gone to a bike fitter and had the fitter tell them their position is really good and no change is necessary? Has anyone gone to one fitter, then gotten a second opinion from a different fitter? What were the difference from one fitter to the other? Do you discuss that with the fitters?

IMO, getting the saddle correct first is step one. It sounds to me like your seat post could be lowered a bit. A shorter stem would definitely help. I normally ride 53/54 cm bikes. I have a late 80's Ochsner road that is a 57 cm, I have owned since I bought it new in '92. I have the saddle forward to the max line, the seat post is at the correct height for me, and I have an 80 mm stem on it to shorten the reach. I am very comfortable on the bike. My issue with it now is that I have lost some height and inseam length, when I straddle the top tube , it is a bit too close to my crotch. In fairness, I do not ride this bike that much anymore, I have a couple other bikes that get most of the miles, and they are all a very good fit for me.

Another suggestion is to keep track of what you are doing to the set up and what does and does not work., and only do one change at a time. If the bike is a really poor fit, it may never be right enough to be comfortable.

Amen! sorta like going to the dr.

Certain things are universal with respect to the human form, regardless of proportion.

There is a ton of info on all this. it is worth figuring out what works for each individual, IMO. None of it is complicated, and all of it is dictated by each person's body. Obviously fitting the bike to the body is important, and more so as you put more of your body into the ride.

The reason people say to set the saddle first is because the greatest load by far is through your legs, and if you compromise your saddle position, you compromise your legs. Forget about losing efficiency---most of us aren't racing. The issues are knee and to a lesser degree hip strain, and odd strains on the rest of your body--e.g. too much weight on your hands (wrist/elbow strain) and reaching too far forward and down (neck/shoulder strain) all of which doesn't always show up in the first 20 miles but which can really hurt over time---or even cause injury.

On my old Cannondale, I have the seat a little far forward, less than half an inch, further than on all the rest of my bikes .... or I did until I found that even after 15 miles I'd get a slight but painful twinge in my right knee. With the saddle forward I was coming down too straight on the knee, i guess, and since my right leg is stronger, it was showing signs of injury first.

You young guys can adapt a lot more---but that doesn't make it better.

Absolutely there is an optimal orientation for Each Rider---depending on upper and lower leg length, foot length, cleat position of foot-on-pedal position, lean angle .... where the seat offers optimal support, the legs get extended enough to really engage all the muscles without hyperextending, and where the rider will, over time, find the greatest comfort.

Saddle height is really important, but so is fore-aft positioning--more so depending on whether you are really fit and riding time trials, riding distance, just a normal person riding around the neighborhood at seven mph, or an amateur enthusiast or whatever ..... If you are a a 7-mph stroller, you can have the saddle way too low and not feel it because you never generate enough force to cause strain. If you like to attack hills and occasionally push, knee extension determines whether you will eventually need knee replacement.

Unquestionably, if you ever ride with a lot of effort, since you are basically putting all the force you can generate through your legs into the pedals, get the saddle set up right so the legs are working properly.

As for this person (the OP) it could be that he has the saddle angled up and is leaning down. He might need spacers, and/or a shorter stem. But his saddle is all the way forward --- possibly the frame is too long and he will Never be comfortable.

Based on the info we have None of us know what he needs.

[MENTION=526099]Rolla[/MENTION] really hits it---visit https://www.bikeforums.net/fitting-your-bike/ and figure out for yourself where you need to be on the bike, OP. Everyone has different proportions, different amounts of flexibility, different comfort zones, different riding styles .....

Maybe also check out https://ilovebicycling.com/fore-aft-saddle-position/

I use KOPS (knee over spindle) as a loose guideline , a starting place to make further adjustments. I generally prop up my bike against the washer-dryer and put a tool box or something on the other side, so I can sit upright with one foot on the pedals and the other providing security, and make minor adjustments. However, I have been riding so long I can usually feel what will work for me. The OP might have to develop that sense through trial and error.

I do Not recommend paying $300 for a "Pro" fitting unless you are already pretty well dialed in and are seeking that last few percent of efficiency. The basic stuff can be learned online, and can be figured out through trial and error. It's not like nobody could properly size a bike until lasers and video were developed.

Particularly for people who might need to be buying a new bike in the right size, dropping a few hundred to be told what you could learn in a couple hours of reading the Internet and fiddling in the driveway ........

And yes, different fitters might have completely different set-ups----if they are hacks.

Hack fitters might try to force everyone into a particular fit---long and low racing posture, for instance---while a good fitter will ask the rider how s/he rides and set him/her up in a more realistic manner. But in any case, simple physics and physiology determine where the saddle goes relative to the BB. On all my bikes, even my mountain bike, the saddle/BB relationship is almost identical, because my body doesn't change from bike to bike. If two fitters cannot find a very similar correct seat position for a given rider, at least one of them is a fake or a fool.

IMO

This is (IMO) a great analysis of the subject. Thank you.

Sure whatever, you do you!

I know people here have a tendency against fitters for whatever reason but it can really help.

Massages are great. Though a fitting I would do once every few years if that depending on how my body has changed at this point probably every 10 years and for a the comfort it has brought me and the knowledge it was well worth it.

If you don't want to go to a shop, at least post some pics of your bike and state your height.

We are just shooting in the dark until you post a pic of the bike, or at least say exactly what it is, with drops or not.
Either a shorter stem or bars with sweep if you have a straight MTB bar.

Lol! I never really noticed that subforum. I wonder if it is any different than what we see here; lower, higher, longer, shorter…

John

I think most cyclists would benefit from read “Bike Fit” by Phil Burt, It’s not expensive and it’s available as a Kindle book.