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At what point do you give up on drop bars?

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At what point do you give up on drop bars?

Old 08-27-21, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by denaffen
.
4. Even if I don't get along with drops, it may be worthwhile to have them there, sort of in reserve, should I ever want them. It's not like they're really in the way.
If you ride comfortably on bar tops, ramps and hoods, it would make little sense to change things just because you don’t use the drops. After all, that might require a lot of changes in bars, stems, cables and shifters, and largely without benefit. And you may develop gradual increases in flexibility and strength from riding that mean the drops will eventually get used.

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Old 08-27-21, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ofajen
If you ride comfortably on bar tops, ramps and hoods, it would make little sense to change things just because you don’t use the drops. After all, that might require a lot of changes in bars, stems, cables and shifters, and largely without benefit. And you may develop gradual increases in flexibility and strength from riding that mean the drops will eventually get used.

Otto
This is a great point. I used to cut way down on riding during winter and the first month or so of starting up again in Spring, the drops felt far, far away, and even the hoods didn't feel right. But that goes away over time, so that by late summer I'm riding hoods and drops comfortably. Last winter I was able to keep going (largely riding indoors on Zwift) so I really didn't have a layoff, and I've found that I can now tolerate even more drop.
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Old 08-27-21, 02:44 PM
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Some bikes just look "right" with drop bars and some bikes look "right" without drop bars. If you can find one, or maybe even two, comfy hand positions I wouldn't be bummed about not using the drops. No one says you have to use every usable handlebar position. Drops aren't for everyone, including myself.

I bought a Raleigh One Way off CL years ago now. The bike came with drops. I found riding on the hoods was comfy and rode it that way for a couple years even though I didn't like any other hand positions, especially the drops. Ultimately I determined I was searching for a more upright position and wider bars. That bike now has riser bars with Serfas Stabilizer bar ends and I ride with hands on the bar ends the majority of the time.

I main bike is a Raleigh Tripper. Came with narrow flat bars. Swapped those out for some wider riser bars and I got the Cane Creek Ergo Control bar ends. The CC bar ends are the most comfy ever. 90% of the time on that bike my hands are on the bar ends (bike has a coaster brake so no brake levers to grab).
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Old 08-27-21, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rumstove
I main bike is a Raleigh Tripper. Came with narrow flat bars. Swapped those out for some wider riser bars and I got the Cane Creek Ergo Control bar ends. The CC bar ends are the most comfy ever. 90% of the time on that bike my hands are on the bar ends (bike has a coaster brake so no brake levers to grab).
Also a good point. With bar ends or hornbar/trekking bars like the AT-3 or AT-4, you end up riding a lot on the outer parts and need to train yourself to cover the brakes whenever necessary if you use rim brakes.

Drop bar hoods, OTOH, afford a similar forward position that works for both seated and standing while also letting you cover the brakes, and shift, if you’re into that sort of thing. 😊

Otto

Last edited by ofajen; 08-27-21 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 08-27-21, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyah
Never a need to "give up" on drop-bars, they are the best. I tried flat-bars - once, about two years ago (after 23 years on drop-bars exclusively) - when I borrowed a bicycle with them for a quick ride up the road and back. It was such an alien, haphazard feeling (especially when riding down hills) that I never wanted a bicycle with them. They offer zero benefit and a whole bunch of detriment. I too rode BMX bicycles when I was young lad but, even those bars had some back-sweep to them. My first rear-derailleur bicycle was a junky MontgomeryWards 10-speed left over from the 'late-'70s before I bought my first new bicycle appropriately sized for me, a Trek 520 (the one in my profile). I think it's just a willingness to get accustomed to the handlebars. Maybe your riding environment too, though. I was riding mostly rural roads when getting accustomed to the drop-bars.
So a quick ride up the road and back was all you needed in order to know that flat bars suck, but the OP needs to be willing to get accustomed to drop bars to understand them.

Got it.

Last edited by Kapusta; 08-27-21 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 08-27-21, 08:50 PM
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get a unicycle and end handle bar worries forever!
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Old 08-28-21, 12:56 AM
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Question: AT WHAT POINT DO YOU GIVE UP ON DROP BARS?

Whenever you want to !

This is not the same as it would be as if you resigned as President of The United States, --OR-- as when you are Grandpa and your kids have to take Grandpa's keys to the BMW away !!
In both of those situations, there is NO going back!
THIS IS A BICYCLE, AND ASSUMING THAT YOU WANT TO TRY GOING BACK TO DROP BARS, YOU CERTAINLY CAN DO THAT, OR JUST ACQUIRE ANOTHER BICYCLE WITH DROP BARS TO RIDE, IF YOU'VE ALREADY SOLD THE OLD BIKE THAT HAD DROPS.
It is not the end of the world.
There is a lot to be said for comfort, rather than just trying to conform to certain perceived expectations.
You're not gonna be riding in the tour de france. At some point, if you are lucky, you will probably reach an age at which you'll prefer something slightly different than typical "drops". If you feel this way, then you should try something else. You might hate all other alternatives and want to return to drop bars, but you might find that you do get what you need with some alternative. Life is too short to be miserable when you are riding your bike. You'll probably choose to ride less. That is the wrong Rx. Have Fun! If that means that one day you'll need to install & adapt something that is more suitable for "that version" of you, then you should do it. Doing so is not a bad thing at all if you still can enjoy riding bicycles. Hey, if you someday find that a three wheeler makes more practical sense to allow you to continue pedalling and having fun, then just Do it !!!
Yes, transporting a trike is somewhat diificult but you will probably be missing out on a lot of potential fun riding experiences if you just pack it in and call it a day with the attitude that if I cannot remain near pro caliber or at least in professional costume dress & equipment, I'll quit riding before I look like Grandpa Munster riding a Kmart Huffy. That is the wrong attitude.
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Old 08-28-21, 01:25 AM
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You need the drops when you get passed by some jackwagon who think's he's hot excrement.
You know, the one's that sneak up behind you and when there three feet behind scream "on your left!" like you were pond scum or something.They got their off shore team kit and the bike made out of balsa wood.
That is when you get on the drops and hunt them down like a dog, and drop them like a dog. Sometimes it takes 20 miles before they say uncle. But if you are on the drops and they are on the hoods, you are saving 10 watts on them. This adds up and they get dropped.

Seriously, everybody is talking about the bike fit as a solution. what about you? How old are you? When you get old, your muscles change. Your joints get out of alignment. Trying to b 16 when you are 40, 50, 60, 70, is a recipe for a visit to the chiro.
Some people are born to ride the drops, like Jock Anquetil. His back was weird.
There are stretching exercises you can do before you ride that might help. Do you bend your back or rotate your hips when on the drops? Sagan uses his hips, Indurain bent his back. Indurain ended up with back pain.

If you do not race professionally or at the amateur level, what would be the reason for being on the drops in the first place other than to chase down mutants who think they are hot?

i like the women who purposely ride on the drops in the summertime. But i know what they are doing.

and remember, to prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman.

Last edited by cjenrick; 08-28-21 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 08-28-21, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cjenrick
You need the drops when you get passed by some jackwagon who think's he's hot excrement.
You know, the one's that sneak up behind you and when there three feet behind scream "on your left!" like you were pond scum or something.They got their off shore team kit and the bike made out of balsa wood.
That is when you get on the drops and hunt them down like a dog, and drop them like a dog. Sometimes it takes 20 miles before they say uncle. But if you are on the drops and they are on the hoods, you are saving 10 watts on them. This adds up and they get dropped.

Seriously, everybody is talking about the bike fit as a solution. what about you? How old are you? When you get old, your muscles change. Your joints get out of alignment. Trying to b 16 when you are 40, 50, 60, 70, is a recipe for a visit to the chiro.
Some people are born to ride the drops, like Jock Anquetil. His back was weird.
There are stretching exercises you can do before you ride that might help. Do you bend your back or rotate your hips when on the drops? Sagan uses his hips, Indurain bent his back. Indurain ended up with back pain.

If you do not race professionally or at the amateur level, what would be the reason for being on the drops in the first place other than to chase down mutants who think they are hot?

i like the women who purposely ride on the drops in the summertime. But i know what they are doing.

and remember, to prepare for a race there is nothing better than a good pheasant, some champagne and a woman.

​​​​​​Bartender! Think it's time to cut him off.
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Old 08-28-21, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I love the drop bars, but I don't agree that they are inherently superior for everyone. If someone really has found they don't like them, I don't see much point in feeling obligated to learn to put up with them.

OTOH, I also think there's lots of good reasons why riding the hoods on a drop bar is a better hand position than I can get comfortably on any flat bar and there's nothing as convenient as brifters on any other kind of handlebars. So for me, use of the drops is a fairly minor consideration--I doubt I spend as much as 10% of my riding time on the drops. I am pretty aero on the hoods, however.
I’ve never ridden a road bike. Just trying to learn before I get one...- Plus the craziness of the last year and a half...

1. I rarely see anyone in the drops. I realize this could be because I observe roadies in the wrong environment for being in the drops. That said I wonder how many people after riding on the hoods just go to bullhorns? Maybe bullhorns are completely different by putting the hands farther forward?

2. I see a lot of drop bars with the bar ends parallel with the ground. I read somewhere to point those bar ends at the rear tire contact patch. What gives?
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Old 08-28-21, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SkinGriz
I’ve never ridden a road bike. Just trying to learn before I get one...- Plus the craziness of the last year and a half...

1. I rarely see anyone in the drops. I realize this could be because I observe roadies in the wrong environment for being in the drops. That said I wonder how many people after riding on the hoods just go to bullhorns? Maybe bullhorns are completely different by putting the hands farther forward?

2. I see a lot of drop bars with the bar ends parallel with the ground. I read somewhere to point those bar ends at the rear tire contact patch. What gives?
Yep. Plenty of people ride bikes with drop bars and never use the drops. Which does beg the question of why to use them. The design of the brake and shift levers make little sense if you never use the drops.

Rules telling you where to point the ends are just rules of thumb and starting points. Just run the bar however it is most comfy. I go by what feels best on the hoods and ramps, and let the ends point wherever they may.
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Old 08-28-21, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SkinGriz
2. I see a lot of drop bars with the bar ends parallel with the ground. I read somewhere to point those bar ends at the rear tire contact patch. What gives?
Having the drops parallel was common in the classic era. If you ride the drops in the saddle it’s not a big deal what the angle is.

If you ride out of the saddle in the drops, you should be bearing a lot of body weight (at least at certain points in the pedal cycle) through the hands, so you will want to angle the drops in the way that feels best. I find that angling drops up ten degrees is optimal, but YMMV.

Otto
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Old 08-28-21, 02:28 PM
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why drops? for me, 2 reasons-

1- I can ride 1 gear higher for the same effort, due to less drag.
2- 30mph or faster downhill feels more stable.

I'm 61yo guy, I use a "women's specific design" shallow drop bar.
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Old 08-28-21, 04:53 PM
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When going with flat bars, a wise man once said - Shifters for flat bars - Velo Postino.
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Old 08-28-21, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by SkinGriz
I’ve never ridden a road bike. Just trying to learn before I get one...- Plus the craziness of the last year and a half...

1. I rarely see anyone in the drops. I realize this could be because I observe roadies in the wrong environment for being in the drops. That said I wonder how many people after riding on the hoods just go to bullhorns? Maybe bullhorns are completely different by putting the hands farther forward?
I use the drops maybe 10% of the time, depending on my route. Descending, or riding into a headwind, for example. I similarly use the bar tops maybe 10% of the time. I wouldn't want to do without either. The thing about bullhorn bars is they curve the wrong way for brifters.

2. I see a lot of drop bars with the bar ends parallel with the ground. I read somewhere to point those bar ends at the rear tire contact patch. What gives?
Where did you read THAT? Traditionally, the bar end - the flat part of the drops - is somewhere between parallel to the ground, or aimed at the rear brake (assuming it's rim brakes) or in extreme cases, the rear axle. Aimed toward the rear contact patch essentially means your bar/stem is all wrong for you and you had to swing the whole thing up to reach it, and you can't use the drops because there's no way in hell to reach the brakes.

Here's an example of reasonable set-up:


EDIT: The tips of the brake levers are set level with the bottom of the drops. I actually rotated this bar so the drops are closer to parallel to the ground than you see here.
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Old 08-28-21, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I use the drops maybe 10% of the time, depending on my route. Descending, or riding into a headwind, for example. I similarly use the bar tops maybe 10% of the time. I wouldn't want to do without either. The thing about bullhorn bars is they curve the wrong way for brifters.


Where did you read THAT? Traditionally, the bar end - the flat part of the drops - is somewhere between parallel to the ground, or aimed at the rear brake (assuming it's rim brakes) or in extreme cases, the rear axle. Aimed toward the rear contact patch essentially means your bar/stem is all wrong for you and you had to swing the whole thing up to reach it, and you can't use the drops because there's no way in hell to reach the brakes.

Here's an example of reasonable set-up:


EDIT: The tips of the brake levers are set level with the bottom of the drops. I actually rotated this bar so the drops are closer to parallel to the ground than you see here.
Ahh.., yes makes sense. If it’s rotated to far you would be coming at the brifters from below. That would be extremely awkward.

Bullhorns = no brifters. Duh... should have thought of that.
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Old 08-28-21, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by denaffen
OK, so I grew up with BMX bikes and later rode mountain bikes. It really wasn't until last year that I spent any time with drop bars, and I find myself just NOT getting along with them. I wonder if I'm just too old, too fat and too set in my ways to get along with them.

On my vintage Bianchi I finally swapped out the old-style drops for some Soma Highway Ones, and that did make a huge difference there. At least now I find I'm riding on my palms instead of the heel of my hand, so it's *way* more comfortable. But I'm still pretty much never on the drops.

And now I have this old Trek 520, and I find myself again not getting along with the vintage-style bars. And again, I'm riding on the heels of my hand, which is just a recipe for pain. I could adjust them a bit, or I could get another set of Highway Ones, but I still don't know if I'd ever actually get into the drops.

Do I need to just power through and force myself onto the drops until I see the advantages? At what point do I just decide that drops just ain't for me? I mean, there are plenty of other handlebars out there that will give you multiple hand positions, and if you're not using the drops, why bother with them? I could just throw some bullhorns on or something.
I don’t give up on drop bars. I’ve worked hard to know how to set mine up for comfort and long distance capability.
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Old 08-28-21, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta
Yep. Plenty of people ride bikes with drop bars and never use the drops. Which does beg the question of why to use them. The design of the brake and shift levers make little sense if you never use the drops.
I think the brifters are perfectly positioned for riding the hoods unless they have that stupid Sora little trigger.
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Old 08-28-21, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I think the brifters are perfectly positioned for riding the hoods unless they have that stupid Sora little trigger.
It is not a big deal for shifting, I’ll grant that.

As far as the brakes..... you know best what you like, but nobody would design a brake lever like that if it did not need to be used in the drops as well. The lever design is a huge compromise made to accommodate two very different hand positions. Perhaps compromise is not the right word, because it works great for the drops (which makes sense since it is what they were actually designed for).

How many other applications do you see a lever (that you need to pull hard) on a bar set practically perpendicular to the bar your hand is holding onto? If not for the drops, the levers would be rotated much farther down and back to be more parallel to the tops of the hoods where you are holding them. Actually, you would not even need "hoods" you'd just use a bullhorn bar, and look how bullhorn bar end brakes are set up. The levers are close to parallel with (and much closer to) the part of the bar you are gripping. Because that makes a lever much easier to squeeze while keeping a grip on the bar.

Sure, it works OK, and we can get used to just about anything (and hood ergonomics have come a long way), but it is not at all the best design for braking from that position. Its just a compromise that needs to be made in order to work from drops as well.

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Old 08-29-21, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Kapusta
It is not a big deal for shifting, I’ll grant that.

As far as the brakes..... you know best what you like, but nobody would design a brake lever like that if it did not need to be used in the drops as well. The lever design is a huge compromise made to accommodate two very different hand positions. Perhaps compromise is not the right word, because it works great for the drops (which makes sense since it is what they were actually designed for).

How many other applications do you see a lever (that you need to pull hard) on a bar set practically perpendicular to the bar your hand is holding onto? If not for the drops, the levers would be rotated much farther down and back to be more parallel to the tops of the hoods where you are holding them. Actually, you would not even need "hoods" you'd just use a bullhorn bar, and look how bullhorn bar end brakes are set up. The levers are close to parallel with (and much closer to) the part of the bar you are gripping. Because that makes a lever much easier to squeeze while keeping a grip on the bar.

Sure, it works OK, and we can get used to just about anything (and hood ergonomics have come a long way), but it is not at all the best design for braking from that position. Its just a compromise that needs to be made in order to work from drops as well.
It's a brilliant piece of engineering that allows two different functions be performed easily from two completely different hand positions. The angle of the brake levers is largely irrelevant, properly set-up, the squeezing motion is the same from the hoods as it would be on any other brake lever setup. The only difference I notice is I use different fingers. Took me about two seconds to "get used to" that.

Maybe this is a personal shape of the hand thing, but I've never found braking from the hoods awkward and I've never heard that complaint from anyone else either. But ignoring the fact that it's the same levers as the shifters is to ignore the great advantage of the set-up over pretty much anything else.
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Old 08-29-21, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Maybe this is a personal shape of the hand thing, but I've never found braking from the hoods awkward and I've never heard that complaint from anyone else either. But ignoring the fact that it's the same levers as the shifters is to ignore the great advantage of the set-up over pretty much anything else.
In general, a hand can’t apply quite as much maximum grip force from the hood position as from drop position. That probably only matters in emergency stops if at all.

It’s a non-issue for me at the moment, but if I put a few gears on a rear hub and wanted a shifter, I’d need bar end shifters in the winter. With mittens and cold hands, that’s the most doable shifting motion for me.

I’ll grant you, the brifter is generally a really clever bit of work and very useful. The hood riding position is very useful because it can be fairly aero, has good stability being far forward of the steering axis, is useful even in climbing and works well for both seated and standing work.

The flip side of that is that if drops aren’t needed, bullhorns can work similarly in most ways. Shifting would need to be bar end which is still fairly convenient but not the same as a brifter.

Otto
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Old 08-29-21, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ofajen

The flip side of that is that if drops aren’t needed, bullhorns can work similarly in most ways. Shifting would need to be bar end which is still fairly convenient but not the same as a brifter.

Otto
I am a fan of bullhorn bars but keep in mind that bullhorn bars do not work well with brakes with aero (hidden) cable routing. Because you have to bend the cable back 90 degrees in a short span and introduce a lot of friction. You can use TT style reverse brake that goes on the bar end but now you took away the spot for the bar end shifters.
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Old 08-29-21, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
It's a brilliant piece of engineering that allows two different functions be performed easily from two completely different hand positions. The angle of the brake levers is largely irrelevant, properly set-up, the squeezing motion is the same from the hoods as it would be on any other brake lever setup. The only difference I notice is I use different fingers. Took me about two seconds to "get used to" that.

Maybe this is a personal shape of the hand thing, but I've never found braking from the hoods awkward and I've never heard that complaint from anyone else either. But ignoring the fact that it's the same levers as the shifters is to ignore the great advantage of the set-up over pretty much anything else.
The only bikes where I feel like braking is awkward or compromised from the hoods vs the drops are my bikes with non-aero levers. While it's possible to brake with non-aero levers from the hoods, the shape of the levers and the location of the pivot and the cable fixing just don't give me enough leverage, at least compared to the aero levers and brifters. And the most recent iteration of brifters - the R7000s on my Canyon - are the best yet for braking from the hoods.
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Old 08-29-21, 09:07 PM
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Geez, it’s so obvious that the hoods are neither ideal for braking nor grip that I’d have thought it didn’t even merit mentioning.

I don’t have the longest fingers, but they’re not short, and I find it awfully sketchy to be bombing down a rough, bumpy road, trying to control the front end while two fingers are on the brake levers trying to generate braking force. I think that’s true for most folks, that when the going is rough and fast, the drops are the place to be because you can wrap the bars securely with two or three fingers and thumb, and have a finger on the end of the lever for maximum leverage and braking force.
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Old 08-30-21, 01:44 AM
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When I got my first road bike I spent most of my time on the hoods, and if I ever got down in the drops it would be literally for 30 seconds before getting back on the hoods. When I upgraded my bike I started playing around with stem length and different bars, I now spend probably 75% of the time in the drops.
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