Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Clincher rim with disc brake hub to improve World Touring resilience?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Clincher rim with disc brake hub to improve World Touring resilience?

Old 08-29-21, 12:25 AM
  #1  
liamM93
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Clincher rim with disc brake hub to improve World Touring resilience?

I am plan on touring back to the UK from New Zealand so expect to bust some of the gear I take along the way.

I am going to build my own touring wheels and am trying to decide what Rims & Hubs to purchase. In this thinking, I feel like I've come up with something that could get me out of trouble on my big cycle back, but I don't remember seeing it anywhere else before.
The idea:
Build wheels using Clincher rims with disc brake hubs.


If my disc brakes fail, I feel like it would be more likely to find a mechanic that could fit V brakes instead of replacing/repairing disc brakes... Is this a ridiculous idea?

Thanks,

Liam
liamM93 is offline  
Old 08-29-21, 02:41 AM
  #2  
delbiker1 
Mother Nature's Son
 
delbiker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 2,610

Bikes: Early 90's Ochsner road, 2006 Schwinn SS DBX, 2014 Orbea Avant MD30, 2004 Airborne Zeppelin TI, 2003 Lemond Poprad, 1989? Fuji Ace, 2001 Lemond Tourmalet, 2014? Soma Smoothie

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 693 Post(s)
Liked 1,011 Times in 593 Posts
Your question does not make much sense. Clincher rims with disc brakes just means you have wheels that use tubed tires that are seated on the rim with the bead of the tire and the bead channel on the rim. That does not necessarily mean they have a brake track on the rim. What you are looking for is a wheel set that has both the disc brakes and a brake track on the rim. That is nothing new. I have a disc brake bike that I purchased in 2006 and it came stock with with wheels laced with disc brake hubs and rims with the brake track. They also are QR mount hubs and not thru axle. The fork also came with the mounts for cantilever brakes already installed. A lot of disc brake forks come with the crown of the fork pre- drilled for mounting fenders and that is the same mount for rim brake calipers. If they have the brake tracks they are almost assuredly pre-drilled . You have to know the reach distance of the calipers to match up with the rims.

Are your disc brakes mechanical or hydraulic? If mechanical, they are less complicated to work on or replace. In my experience they are no more likely to fail than rim brake calipers. I have no experience with hydraulics, but I know they are more complicated and take more skill and tools l to work on. Not that they are more likely to fail, but they do have more parts, especially the hydraulic fluid hoses and the fluid well. When traveling with the bike, if it is not protected in a case or bag, there is a distinct possibility of the hoses being damaged and/or air getting into the hoses and needing bleeding. Disc brakes, both hydraulic and mechanical, are very prevalent now and most real bike mechanics have the skill to work on them. However, caliper brakes MIGHT be more readily available in the moment, but certainly no guarantee with this parts shortage situation in the world. Also, if your disc brakes are hydraulic, your brake levers are not going to match up with rim brake calipers and work properly, so that would be a costly replacement.

So, a ridiculous idea? If hydraulic, probably. If mechanical, not at all. If I was that concerned about it, I would just go with rim brakes to start with, which for you, just might mean a different bike.
delbiker1 is offline  
Likes For delbiker1:
Old 08-29-21, 02:51 AM
  #3  
Lazyass
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minas Ithil
Posts: 9,335
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2430 Post(s)
Liked 628 Times in 388 Posts
I assume you mean non-disc rims with disc hubs. Obviously you need a bike with both disc and canti mounts. I wouldn't even bother with disc brakes but I'm biased against them. Disc brakes suck.
Lazyass is offline  
Old 08-31-21, 04:32 AM
  #4  
MattTheHat 
Senior Member
 
MattTheHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 2,339

Bikes: 2021 S-Works Turbo Creo SL, 2020 Specialized Roubaix Expert

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 711 Post(s)
Liked 3,341 Times in 1,167 Posts
Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Disc brakes suck.
Sure.
MattTheHat is offline  
Old 08-31-21, 07:40 AM
  #5  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 10,140
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3012 Post(s)
Liked 3,923 Times in 1,999 Posts
What frame do you have? Would be an odd duck. You want thru axles for disc brakes and mounting studs for V brakes. Curious to see what frame you have with both.
shelbyfv is offline  
Old 08-31-21, 08:42 AM
  #6  
Iride01 
Plz hurry Dec 22!
 
Iride01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,866

Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4850 Post(s)
Liked 3,371 Times in 2,337 Posts
If you believe that you are more likely to find someone to install some type of rim brake on your bike while on your epic journey, then why not just start out that way?

I'd think it more likely that they'll be able to fix whatever is on your bike disc or rim brake. However inventory for certain things like chains and disc pads for 11 speed bikes is still spotty. Even some 10 speed stuff is getting hard to find. And I've not even glanced at 12 speed parts scarcity.

Do we really need brakes at all? <grin>
Iride01 is offline  
Likes For Iride01:
Old 08-31-21, 09:40 AM
  #7  
Rick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 972
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 412 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 263 Times in 172 Posts
If you want a rim with braking surfaces, they are still available. Ryde makes the Andra models that are most likely the strongest rims available.
Rick is offline  
Old 08-31-21, 09:52 AM
  #8  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 13,939

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6794 Post(s)
Liked 2,058 Times in 1,120 Posts
First, I am fairly certain you cannot find a frame built from the factory with mounting posts for V-brakes mid-fork and mid-seatstay, and also disc caliper mounts at the dropouts. That thing does not exist.

Possibly you could find some kind of bolt-on disc mount, but that would add weight and also add forces in a place and direction the frame builders never anticipated.

I have never seen 'bolt-on" V-brake caliper posts.

Possibly you could finagle up some sort of brake bridge and mount normal rim brakes/ Again you would be adding weight and also adding stress where the frame was not built for it.

Also, as @delbiker1 notes, hydro disc levers won't work with cable-actuated brakes of any sort. There is no place to mount the cable and the lever throw is not calibrated for pulling cable to actuate brakes. You would need two different brake levers on each side of the bars.

Hydro brakes. again as delbiker explains, are more vulnerable to issues and almost impossible to repair roadside--unless you carried a bleed kit, a bunch of hose, all the fittings, and a bunch of brake fluid (and it had better be mineral oil, as DOT fluid will eat everything.)

However, please note that mountain bikers seem to do some fairly epic rides which stress (stress as in "bash and batter") their bikes severely and generally seem to be fine with hydro discs.

If you used cable-operated disc brakes, then .... why would you need rim brakes?

Brake pads don't just evaporate. You have an equal chance of having a brake pad pop off for no reason mid-ride with any kind of brake---the chances being approximately zero. Cable discs are no more or less reliable or fragile than any rim brakes.

You could hurt you brakes in a crash, no matter what sort of brakes you used--- and most bike shops aren't going to stock a wide range of complete brake kits. That's more something they'd order if you brought a bike in to have work done. That means they would be using the Internet to find parts, and paying for whatever shipping service, so immediate availability would be null, but convenient availability ("Should take about a week") could be expected.

I had a wheel fail on a tour, and had to replace it with a wheel with a steel rim because that was what there was, and if I planned to keep touring I was going to buy that steel rim. It was a rear wheel so the lowered braking potential wasn't a huge issue, but that's how it goes. If you are in a town somewhere, they might not stock the parts you need, no matter what parts they are. Be ready.

Serious questions would be---where do you plan to tour?

If you are touring third-world countries, or are going to be out in the hinterland of any country, you might be days' walk from a bike shop. I am sure many regions of many nations have Zero bike shops--I imagine if I wanted to ride from California south to Tierra del Fuego I would be days away from any sort of bike shop most of the time, unless I went from city to city on main roads, and even then, there would be a lot of wilderness.

Just crossing the Mojave Desert is going to leave you a long way from bike shops---though you might have cell-phone access all the way, depending on the route you took. (I have done a West-East cross-country tour and can tell you, don't count on Uber. Bring tubes and a pump, not CO2 )

If you wanted to do a long summer tour through Alaska, you had best have vehicle support, or be ready to fix Anything.

Some folks have bought supplies of parts and set up a mail service with friends---"Say, would you send me parts XYZ to this address in East Backward? Here's the address." and yes, parts might cost a fortune to ship and take a couple weeks to arrive but it depends how rural you want to tour.

On the other hand, this is the 21st century. If you are anywhere near a major city in a lot of the world, there is internet and express shipping---and brands like Shimano are global. If you are in a place without internet, who knows what bike parts they might have available, if any? Otherwise, the issue is waiting for shipping. A bike shop is more likely to have parts from modern bikes as that is likely what it will sell. In a smaller, less developed area, who knows? Who knows what brands are popular, if any? Who knows which era of parts they might carry ... and even more so in a tiny, rural shop, they won't have much inventory except of perishables, like tires and tubes.

So, to me, the cost of having a custom bike built from scratch with two or possibly three brake systems, and two or three sets of levers, on the off chance that you might have a non-repairable failure in one system, is way too complicated. Further, it is unlikely---you would be far better prepared with a couple spare tires and tubes and patch kits. Breaking a chain is probably more likely than ripping a brake system apart during normal riding. A crash is more likely to do terminal damage to a wheel than a brake system. Is your double-brake bike going to have a couple spare wheels on board?

Crash damage could break Anything. The idea that you could have enough parts to fix anything is ridiculous. Most serious tourers that I have ever talked with (real or virtual) put more stock in having the bike be really well-maintained and all the perishables (tires, brake shoes, cables, whatever) be new at the start of the trip.

Part of why I bought my Fuji was that it had really good mechanical discs. I wanted to have discs because this was to be my working bike, which means hauling loads, light touring, rain riding, groceries, commuting .... I wanted cable discs because I wanted to be able to fix a brake roadside. I can rig a cable, replace a cable, buy a cable at almost any Walmart .... whereas fixing a hydro system takes a load of specific parts and tools.

However .... I know from experience, there is not always a Walmart on a tour, and if you are not willing to ride on with one brake (or no headlight--had that happen) or whatever until you can reach a place that has parts .... stay home.

So ... unless you are on a supported tour where the sag-wagon has multiple chains, wheels, a welder, and enough parts to supply a small bike shop (in which case, why not bring a spare bike) then you are better off just having a sturdy bike.

Last edited by Maelochs; 08-31-21 at 10:00 AM.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 08-31-21, 10:27 AM
  #9  
GamblerGORD53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Elevation 666m Edmonton Canada
Posts: 2,058

Bikes: 2013 Custom SA5w / Rohloff Tourster

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 960 Post(s)
Liked 186 Times in 149 Posts
The best rim for 35 mm tires, is Velocity Dyad with machined brake tracks. This is all I have on 3 bikes, all with IGH gears, Rohloff14 on the tour heavyweight. NOTHING is more reliable. Broken spokes are a very slim possibility. Not so with lopsided dish derailleur wheels. For the disc brake on my Rohloff, I have cable TRP Spyre, which has both side pads moving. This stops the wheel INSTANTLY, with resin pads. I haven't broken a cable during a ride, for 30 years. It was an awful stiff caliper. Carry several spare disc pads for sure.

For the front wheel you need a dyno hub and lights. Mine is the SA XL-FDD, which has a DRUM brake. Again, NOTHING is more safe, reliable and lasts near 30,000 miles. Still good as new, rim and all. The sealed bearings are fairly easily replaced, but last almost as long. A strong fork is needed, like a disc fork. I did 8,100 tour miles with the bike at 120 lbs. ZERO worries with my components. Crashing and baggage handlers can't break my custom steel bike. LOL.

For spokes, I would not trust straight 2.0 ones. Put Alpine III on, or at least ones that have 2.3 heads. My Rohloff doesn't allow these, but not really necessary anyway.

Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 09-02-21 at 02:56 PM.
GamblerGORD53 is offline  
Likes For GamblerGORD53:
Old 08-31-21, 11:18 AM
  #10  
Rick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 972
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 412 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 263 Times in 172 Posts
Surly Troll and Surly Big Dummy have both disk and cantilever mounts and I believe you can still find others still available.
Rick is offline  
Likes For Rick:
Old 08-31-21, 12:00 PM
  #11  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 10,140
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3012 Post(s)
Liked 3,923 Times in 1,999 Posts
The Troll might be just right for OP! Looks as if they've stopped production but probably still some around. Set it up with mechanical discs, mount some canti or V brakes (whichever matches the levers) maybe a couple of cables, good to go!

shelbyfv is offline  
Old 08-31-21, 12:03 PM
  #12  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,076

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3643 Post(s)
Liked 2,089 Times in 1,325 Posts
Should the OP ever come back...

Originally Posted by liamM93 View Post
Is this a ridiculous idea?
Yes.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Likes For ThermionicScott:
Old 08-31-21, 02:16 PM
  #13  
delbiker1 
Mother Nature's Son
 
delbiker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 2,610

Bikes: Early 90's Ochsner road, 2006 Schwinn SS DBX, 2014 Orbea Avant MD30, 2004 Airborne Zeppelin TI, 2003 Lemond Poprad, 1989? Fuji Ace, 2001 Lemond Tourmalet, 2014? Soma Smoothie

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 693 Post(s)
Liked 1,011 Times in 593 Posts
I do not have a picture of my SS DBX, but I copied this from the web. It looks like the wheels on this bike do not have the brake track, but you can see the both the cantilever and the disc brake mounts. Mine has the same brand name wheels, but has the brake tracks in addition. I have, at times, had both front and rear racks mounted on the bike. Also, I have a set of unbranded Shimano, disc only wheels, center lock, on the bike now. They are both considerably lighter and substantially stiffer. Both sets are QR, but the Jalco front wheel flexes badly with hard braking. The brakes are Avid BB7 mechanical. It has been a good, versatile, low cost bike to own.
delbiker1 is offline  
Old 08-31-21, 02:28 PM
  #14  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,134
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1012 Post(s)
Liked 1,006 Times in 580 Posts
I feel like in the unlikely event that the OP has one of these rare bikes that has both disc and rim brake mounting points, AND is looking for the most belt-and-suspenders option possible, then yes... a custom wheelset with disc hubs and rims with brake tracks would make sense, so that they have the option to run either in the event of a catastrophic brake failure that otherwise can't be fixed.

At this point, it's also worth noting that 26" wheels are still more common in some areas of the world than 700c. In the event that you've damaged a 700c wheel or tire but can only find 26" replacement options, you could theoretically remove the disc hub from your 700c wheel and have it re-laced onto a 26" rim, and have a ridable setup with working brakes.

These scenarios are interesting to game out, but in reality are incredibly unlikely in today's world where you can get overnight shipping almost anywhere.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 08-31-21, 03:01 PM
  #15  
Rick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 972
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 412 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 263 Times in 172 Posts
When I ordered my custom touring bicycle I told the shop I wanted Velocity Cliff Hanger Rims and they built up the wheels with the Velocity Aero Heat Rims. I found some new old stock velocity Psycho Rims and rebuilt the wheels. Even though I have disk brakes the machined brake track on these rims made it easier to build the wheel with closer tolerances. The Psycho rims are stronger than the Dyad or the Cliff Hanger rims.
Rick is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.