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Carbon with the feel of steel??

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Carbon with the feel of steel??

Old 09-02-21, 08:50 AM
  #26  
prj71
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I have a 2021 Domane. It's an awesome bike.

1: Bikes can't be slow. A bike is an inanimate object. How fast a bike can go is all in the rider and nothing to do with the bike. That you feel the bike is slow is all in your head.

2. My Domane weighs a little over 20 lbs. Not sure what what you are looking for in bike weight.

3. The stock Bontrager Hardcase Lite tires that come on the bike are junk and feel like crap when riding. A tire upgrade (I got Conti GP5000s) does wonders for that bike.

4. The bike has 32 mm tires. Because of the wider tires you can run less pressure than your 23/25 tires and it smooths out the bumps.

5.) The Domane has the front and rear isospeed that also smooths out the bumps.

Items 4 and 5 are maybe why the bike feels dead to you. You are are used to a steel bike with narrow tires that are run at higher pressure and you feel every single road bump through your arms and legs. Maybe you like that? I know I don't. I prefer the smoother ride.
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Old 09-02-21, 09:19 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by gregario View Post
Good idea, but the Seven sizing is rather unusual. For example, the head tube is 25.5cm, top tube 58.1cm. Finding a stock sized bike close to that is tough, and those are usually "endurance" fit. I guess what I'll do it go with another custom steel, thinking Co-Motion.
There is a lot more to 'feel' than just material.
Wheelbase, fork trail, chainstay length, bottom bracket drop, tire size and quality- all of these for sure play a large role in how a bike feels. You can take two otherwise identical bikes but one with less trail and higher quality tires will feel 'snappier' vs 'planted' and 'faster' rather than 'sluggish'.
Sure, frame material plays a role in feel. But I am convinced that a wide tire(40mm for example) almost totally negates frame material feel. At that point, the frame either simply feels firm or soft, quick or slow and thats all geometry.

The Domane you tried could feel sluggish due to heavy wheels, slow tires, and relaxed geometry(wheelbase and chainstays in particular) compared to your Seven.
A Domane SL6 is a $4200 bike so yeah if you arent fully happy with it then it totally makes sense to get something different.

The 62cm Domane has a stack height of 656mm and reach of 386mm. Its pretty upright and short reach. I am 6'5 and my road bikes have slightly lower stack reach and a good bit more reach.
It may be tough to find something thats mass produced that will feel snappy or fast and has stack/reach numbers similar to the Domane.
What are all the geometry details of your Seven?
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Old 09-02-21, 09:33 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
There is a lot more to 'feel' than just material.
Wheelbase, fork trail, chainstay length, bottom bracket drop, tire size and quality- all of these for sure play a large role in how a bike feels. You can take two otherwise identical bikes but one with less trail and higher quality tires will feel 'snappier' vs 'planted' and 'faster' rather than 'sluggish'.
Sure, frame material plays a role in feel. But I am convinced that a wide tire(40mm for example) almost totally negates frame material feel. At that point, the frame either simply feels firm or soft, quick or slow and thats all geometry.

The Domane you tried could feel sluggish due to heavy wheels, slow tires, and relaxed geometry(wheelbase and chainstays in particular) compared to your Seven.
A Domane SL6 is a $4200 bike so yeah if you arent fully happy with it then it totally makes sense to get something different.

The 62cm Domane has a stack height of 656mm and reach of 386mm. Its pretty upright and short reach. I am 6'5 and my road bikes have slightly lower stack reach and a good bit more reach.
It may be tough to find something thats mass produced that will feel snappy or fast and has stack/reach numbers similar to the Domane.
What are all the geometry details of your Seven?
Good advice, but I think you're wasting your time. The OP isn't really interested in a carbon bike. ​​He started an identical thread on another forum, and quickly posted the following:

"Frankly, I'm wondering why carbon bikes are so popular if the ride quality cannot hold a candle to steel."
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Old 09-02-21, 09:46 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Good advice, but I think you're wasting your time. The OP isn't really interested in a carbon bike. ​​He started an identical thread on another forum, and quickly posted the following:

"Frankly, I'm wondering why carbon bikes are so popular if the ride quality cannot hold a candle to steel."
Yeah, I figured since the OP mentions leaning towards a Comotion bike, they are set on steel. As one who only owns steel frames, I certainly wont disagree with the decision, but how the OP got to the decision is odd.
The tough thing is that if the OP gets a steel frame and the geometry isnt what they want, itll feel slow/dead too.
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Old 09-02-21, 09:48 AM
  #30  
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Have it your way - stock or custom.

www.calfeedesign.com
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Old 09-02-21, 11:05 AM
  #31  
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How does steel feel?

I sort of thought that stuff depended on frame design .......
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Old 09-02-21, 12:17 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Wildwood View Post
Have it your way - stock or custom.

www.calfeedesign.com
Also stock or custom:

https://parleecycles.com/custom/
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Old 09-02-21, 12:48 PM
  #33  
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You like Seven, stick with Seven. Tell Rob what you want. Let him choose steel again, or Ti, or Ti plus carbon. I don’t even like Sevens but you do, why argue with success? Rob Vandermarks strongest suit is that he is really good at talking with the customers. If he made you happy before he can do it again.
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Old 09-02-21, 12:54 PM
  #34  
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Just get a new groupset with compact crank for your current frame. Maybe buy a new set of wheels with the savings over a new bike.
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Addiction is all about class.
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Old 09-02-21, 04:21 PM
  #35  
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OK, I see that I've phrased my dilemma all wrong. Yes, I posted the same question on another forum and got some pretty rude replies. (I love the internet!) Yes, I know that wheels, tires, etc effect ride "quality", and that ride quality can mean different things to different people. I'm certainly not a Noob. I don't wan to buy a bike only to spend another $1000 changing wheels/tires etc to make it a better ride. What I should have said is.....

My experience with carbon bikes is that they have a "dead" feel to them. My experience with steel bikes is that they have a lively feel. My experience with Aluminum bikes is that they have a very harsh feel (old Cannondale 3.0 frame and Cannondale Tandem - my wife HATED the ride of the tandem) . I understand that tube diameters and construction design, etc., etc. can have a effect on ride quality so that the differences to some may not be apparent. But they certainly are to me.

I guess when it comes down to it my question is, as a general rule, do carbon frames have a dead feeling ride quality? I suppose if you've never had experience riding anything other than carbon you wouldn't be familiar with what I mean. I would like to try another carbon bike other than the Domane I had, but simply test riding a variety of bikes is impossible, especially in today's supply crunch and because frankly shops don't normally stock my size. I don't want to go to a shop and say please order me a Roubaix or a BMC Road Machine and then be disappointed with what I end up with.

As far as I'm concerned, I appreciate the thoughtful replies, but this discussion can end. It's up to me just to decide on way or the other. As some have pointed out, I said I prefer the ride of steel, so I will either do that or go for a titanium frame, but I just wanted to know if my impression of carbon frames and being dead and uninspiring is more typical.

Thank you.

I also really don't like the fact that I can only post a certain number to replies on this forum over a 24 hour period. Seems like an odd rule.
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Old 09-02-21, 04:24 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Why not try Ti?
Beat me to it!

Ti is fly.
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Old 09-02-21, 04:29 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by gregario View Post

I also really don't like the fact that I can only post a certain number to replies on this forum over a 24 hour period. Seems like an odd rule.
The rule is to prevent spamming and trolls. Makes total sense if you’ve been around for a while.
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Old 09-02-21, 04:44 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by gregario View Post
As far as I'm concerned, I appreciate the thoughtful replies, but this discussion can end.
The mods will be happy to close this for you. Use the red button on the left.
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Old 09-02-21, 07:03 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Also stock or custom:

https://parleecycles.com/custom/
Have only heard great things about Parlee
but
I only highly recommend the Calfee based on 20 years of ownership experience. Frame now sports compact rings and longer rd cage -- which suit my aging frame.


edit: Carbon frame with a dead feel? That was true many years ago and steered me away from early Trek, Aegis, other monocoque designs. And yes, early aluminum road frames tig welded with oversized tubing from Cannondale, Klein and others were tremendously stiff, especially if your tires were 20 or 23mm pumped hard.
Not sure it is a valid question today with fat tires and decoupled frames (seatpost suspension) and headset suspension models being offered on road bikes.
Really - with low psi, 32mm tires or wider - who cares about frame material?

Last edited by Wildwood; 09-02-21 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 09-02-21, 08:48 PM
  #40  
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The only issue you have is owning a bike no one has ridden, or will ride. Plus steel is 30+ years past its prime, so you’ll be hard pressed to get a lot of comparable input. Even though BF has a large steel contingent.

I would imagine a number of C&V people have ridden carbon but you need to be able to point to an 80’s bike that is similar enough to your Seven to have any chance of a valid suggestion.

If you want to move on, hang the Seven up, try out bikes, and adjust. A good frame, wheels, and components go a long way regardless what it’s made of.

John
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Old 09-03-21, 03:06 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by gregario View Post
OK, I see that I've phrased my dilemma all wrong. Yes, I posted the same question on another forum and got some pretty rude replies. (I love the internet!) Yes, I know that wheels, tires, etc effect ride "quality", and that ride quality can mean different things to different people. I'm certainly not a Noob. I don't wan to buy a bike only to spend another $1000 changing wheels/tires etc to make it a better ride. What I should have said is.....

My experience with carbon bikes is that they have a "dead" feel to them. My experience with steel bikes is that they have a lively feel. My experience with Aluminum bikes is that they have a very harsh feel (old Cannondale 3.0 frame and Cannondale Tandem - my wife HATED the ride of the tandem) . I understand that tube diameters and construction design, etc., etc. can have a effect on ride quality so that the differences to some may not be apparent. But they certainly are to me.

I guess when it comes down to it my question is, as a general rule, do carbon frames have a dead feeling ride quality? I suppose if you've never had experience riding anything other than carbon you wouldn't be familiar with what I mean. I would like to try another carbon bike other than the Domane I had, but simply test riding a variety of bikes is impossible, especially in today's supply crunch and because frankly shops don't normally stock my size. I don't want to go to a shop and say please order me a Roubaix or a BMC Road Machine and then be disappointed with what I end up with.

As far as I'm concerned, I appreciate the thoughtful replies, but this discussion can end. It's up to me just to decide on way or the other. As some have pointed out, I said I prefer the ride of steel, so I will either do that or go for a titanium frame, but I just wanted to know if my impression of carbon frames and being dead and uninspiring is more typical.

Thank you.

I also really don't like the fact that I can only post a certain number to replies on this forum over a 24 hour period. Seems like an odd rule.
I don't think it is typical for carbon frames to feel dead and uninspiring. It's probably just unfortunate that you picked the Domane as your first carbon bike as it's a bit of an outlier with it's unique IsoSpeed frame damping - which is likely what made it feel "dead" for you. Maybe you should try something like a Specialised Aethos, with a super-light and responsive frame? It would be night and day different to the Domane. A Cannondale Synapse might be worth a ride too. Again quite different from a Domane. I certainly wouldn't give up on carbon at this stage if you want the best modern tech available to ride faster.
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Old 09-06-21, 12:26 PM
  #42  
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Well, I have a 1953 Armstrong frame, a 1952 Rotrax and a 1964 Gillott. All well used, two repainted, one in original but well worn paint.

I wonder how many 'Carbon' and aluminium frames will last that long, certainly I won't be round to know if my 2021 Émonda 5 does. I'm 66.
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Old 09-06-21, 12:43 PM
  #43  
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nice bike!
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Old 09-06-21, 09:55 PM
  #44  
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It sounds like titanium is worth exploring or really high end steel like Reynolds 953. Since you're willing to buy custom get exactly what you want, as long as you can clearly convey that to your frame builder. I can't speak from direct experience since the only carbon frames I have ever ridden were 6" travel mountain bikes.
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Old 09-07-21, 08:06 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by gregario View Post
Thanks for the response. However, the geometry that works for me is the reason I go custom. A comparable stock bike would be a 61-62cm "endurance" frame, and I'm not necessarily looking for the endurance fit. Even when there aren't supply issues virtually no bike shop stocks frames that large. The only reason the shop had a Domane in a 62cm was because they got it in for someone else and THAT person ended up returning it for the same reason I did. Slow, heavy, and dead.
I rented a Canondale Synapse a couple of years ago on vacation, and felt the same dead feeling. All carbon bikes do not feel that way. My 2007 Trek Madone felt quite snappy, even though it was built during the "dark ages" of carbon. My Ridley cross bike is quite responsive. My current Parlee is almost as snappy, but much more plush, but then again, it is a gravel bike so was designed to be compliant, and I'm running 32mm wide tires on it, so that is some of the reason too. I rode steel bikes exclusively for 25 years, and feel that the good carbon bikes, are just as responsive, or more so, than any steel bike I have ridden.

So, my advice is not to judge all carbon by the example of one bike.
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Old 09-07-21, 08:18 AM
  #46  
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I have had a few steel bikes that rode with all the compliance and liveliness of an oak log. It shouldn't be too hard to make a carbon bike feel the same.
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Old 09-07-21, 08:52 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by gregario View Post
I guess when it comes down to it my question is, as a general rule, do carbon frames have a dead feeling ride quality?
No.

Originally Posted by gregario View Post
...but I just wanted to know if my impression of carbon frames and being dead and uninspiring is more typical.
No. It's just you.
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Old 09-07-21, 10:16 AM
  #48  
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I own a bike shop specializing in used, refurbished bikes. We always recommend that the potential customer keep & update a bike that they are familiar with and comfortable on rather than buying a new one - even a cheap used one from us! The things you long for compact gearing and wider tires would involve trivial changes to a bike you are basically happy with. Swap the crankset and derailleurs for the compact versions & get a fork with a few more millimeters of clearance so you can use a 25 mm or better yet, a 28 mm front tire, and you have your cake and eat it too. The change in geometry and therefore handling induced by the slightly longer fork blades be unnoticable, but a mullet set-up (larger tire in front) will improve comfort. I have altered front forks much more than this recommendation, and although I could feel a difference in handling with the most extreme changes, in no case was the bike unmanageable with the longer fork. If you want even more witdth than 28 mm, and are willing to sacrifice some, you could always switch to 650B wheels. As for the n + 1 theory, I prefer the marriage theory: "Why a man would marry a woman is a mystery; why a man would marry two women is bigamystery.
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Old 09-08-21, 11:37 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
I have a 2021 Domane. It's an awesome bike.

1: Bikes can't be slow. A bike is an inanimate object. How fast a bike can go is all in the rider and nothing to do with the bike. That you feel the bike is slow is all in your head.

.
Which is why all the pros ride 25 lb steel bikes?
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Old 09-08-21, 11:40 AM
  #50  
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Just pick out your favorite Carbon frame and fill all the tubes with concrete!!!
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