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Bike sizing advice

Old 09-10-21, 07:51 AM
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Bike sizing advice

Last weekend I broke the frame on my 2017 Roubaix 58cm. Damaged a seat stay (repairable) but also put a crack that ran from the exit of the derailleur cable over to the top of the hanger. The repair shop was not sure they could repair that without affecting the hanger position, and while they could try they would also not warranty that repair at all. So it looks like I need a new frame and we all know what the supply chain is like right now.

I am 6'2.5" and a bit longer in the leg. The Spz sizing charts suggest a 58 up to 6'2" and a 61 for 6'2--6'5"

So my 58cm had all the spacers (3 IIRC) and the stem flipped upwards (7 deg) and a lot of seat post. Basically the front end was as high as it could go, but that happened to match the fit. I was surprised when the bike fitter 5 years ago suggested a 58 instead of a 61.

My LBS has a 61 Roubaix sport in stock and I know that because I want to get back on the road enough I could make a snap decision I might regret. So I am trying to do my research first. The comparative geometries look like this;
https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=s...;*z.58cm|w.700

So compared to my old bike
61cm 58cm
Stack: 665 vs 644
Reach: 398 386
Top tube: 595 576
Standover 844 813

Because I had so many spacers I don't think the extra stack will be a problem (I am 53 and less flexible every year). And I am pretty sure the standover is not a problem (and would be pretty immediately obvious). However the extra 2cm of reach and top tube would require me to drop the stem from 110 to 90 presumably. I imagine that might make handling a bit more squirrely. Or maybe a 90mm is not a big deal.

So what is the consensus of the internet about this? Should I avoid the 61 and wait 3 months (arbitrary guess) for a 58 to come available?
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Old 09-10-21, 08:13 AM
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Reach is 13mm longer- so offset that with a shorter stem. Yes, the virtual top tube length is 19mm longer, but reach is more important.
Something to also consider, the 99 spokes shows your '17 bike came with bars that have a 15mm rise. If thats correct, then take that into account along with the stem rise etc. Both bars have matching reach and drop measurements so there shouldnt be a difference in fit to consider with the bars. One last thing to consider is lever length. Not sure how your old ones compare to the new 105s on the '21 bike, but lever hood length can definitely affect fit when it comes to total reach to the levers.

Moving to a 90mm stem wont make the bike twitchy and uncontrollable.
Also, 90mm stems are what comes stock on that bike's 52mm size, and even shorter stems are on the smaller sizes.

If you wait for a 58 size to be available, you will have the opposite issue because that bike's stack height is 14mm lower than your current 58, and a 6mm longer reach. If you needed a 15mm rise in bars plus a 7deg positive rise stem before, then you will need a stem with even more rise to offset the 30mm difference(lower stack height plus no bar rise). You could ride a new 58 with a slammed 35degree 130mm stem to get the bars at the same point as they are on your current 58. That sounds kinda goofy.
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Old 09-10-21, 08:27 AM
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The new ones also have the hoverbar (™) that gives the extra 15mm at the expense of looking a bit goofy. Are you sure the new 58 stem would slammed? Since the new one is longer reach and less stack I would have thought the opposite? But it sounds like you are saying a 61 with a shorter stem is probably a better fit, or am I misinterpreting?
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Old 09-10-21, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tedder987 View Post
The new ones also have the hoverbar (ô) that gives the extra 15mm at the expense of looking a bit goofy. Are you sure the new 58 stem would slammed? Since the new one is longer reach and less stack I would have thought the opposite? But it sounds like you are saying a 61 with a shorter stem is probably a better fit, or am I misinterpreting?
The best thing to do is to go to the shop, and try the bike. You seem to have some misgivings about the bike you had before which seems to indicate that it didnít fit you quite properly. Taking the frame geometry specs from a frame that didnít fit quite right isnít the way to go. Ride the bike. Ride another bike in a smaller size (if possible). Quite trying to paper titrate, as we say in chemistry.
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Old 09-10-21, 08:43 AM
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Get the 61cm bike
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Old 09-10-21, 08:44 AM
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BTW, there's a sub-forum here that's dedicated to bike fit: https://www.bikeforums.net/fitting-your-bike/
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Old 09-10-21, 08:47 AM
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I use to ride oversize bikes for my size. And I did it quite comfortably. However I'm finding the smaller frame sizes recommended for my height and body measurements more fun to ride and actually more comfortable for longer rides.

I also find I like a more aero position more on them. My larger framed bikes I tended to set them up for a less aero position.

But of course my experience with them might not be your experience. So if the LBS is pushing that on you, then make them let you test ride it for 10 miles or so on your normal routes.

Larger frames also have longer cranks and wider bars. That may or may not be an issue too.

Last edited by Iride01; 09-10-21 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 09-10-21, 09:13 AM
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I'm feeling quite fortunate that I generally have proportional body dimensions. I have a 32.5" inseam and my original height (I'm older and shorter now) was 5'10 1/2". For my entire 40 yrs of cycling a "square" 55 (55 ST and 55 TT) has been perfect. I can ride anything from 54 to 58 pretty well but 55 is the sweet spot. Find your sweet spot. I found mine using the LeMond-Guimard sizing formula. I've also had a professional fit which confirmed my findings.
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Old 09-10-21, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tedder987 View Post
The new ones also have the hoverbar (ô) that gives the extra 15mm at the expense of looking a bit goofy. Are you sure the new 58 stem would slammed? Since the new one is longer reach and less stack I would have thought the opposite? But it sounds like you are saying a 61 with a shorter stem is probably a better fit, or am I misinterpreting?
Ok, both having the same bar(reach, drop, and rise) evens things out a bit. Below is a picture of your current stem(red) and the new 58(blue). You can see that would need a 17deg positive rise stem in 110mm length to pretty much match your current setup. This is because the new 58 has 14mm less stack height. Technically you could use the 17deg positive rise 110mm stem and remove a 5mm spacer to get it to within 1mm of your current bike's handlebar position.

Point being- a new 58 would require a more heavily angled stem to get you close to/at where your position is now.
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Old 09-10-21, 10:08 AM
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If you bought that bike new, it should be warranted.
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Old 09-10-21, 11:27 AM
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cycocommute, I did not explain myself properly. I put just under 5k miles a year on my old bike and I think the fit was perfect, but it was also definitely right at the edge of the fit envelope for that frame. I would get a new 58 in a minute if I could, but at the moment that means waiting for an unspecified amount of time, while the 61 is sitting in my LBS. So that brings me back to the original question which I will restate as

"Since I was at the upper end of the fit envelope for the old 58, is it likely that I can fall near the bottom end of the envelope for a 61. And if I do by reducing stem length from 110->90 will that have a significant effect on the handling of the 61?"
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Old 09-10-21, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Ok, both having the same bar(reach, drop, and rise) evens things out a bit. Below is a picture of your current stem(red) and the new 58(blue). You can see that would need a 17deg positive rise stem in 110mm length to pretty much match your current setup. This is because the new 58 has 14mm less stack height. Technically you could use the 17deg positive rise 110mm stem and remove a 5mm spacer to get it to within 1mm of your current bike's handlebar position.

Point being- a new 58 would require a more heavily angled stem to get you close to/at where your position is now.
Wow that is very helpful. Is this from a website and if so can you post the link? I think the consensus that I am getting from y'all is that in the new bike the 61 is probably a better fit than the 58 would be. Since its also available the only hurdle left is getting spousal approval.

And to the other who mentioned warranty - the bike is 4.5 years old so its out of warranty, but even then this is crash damage not a defect so probably would not matter if it was new. What it should qualify for (hopefully hear today or Monday) is the crash-replacement program which would give me a 20% discount on a new Specialized frame or bike.
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Old 09-10-21, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by tedder987 View Post
Wow that is very helpful. Is this from a website and if so can you post the link? I think the consensus that I am getting from y'all is that in the new bike the 61 is probably a better fit than the 58 would be.
Ha, I intended to link it!
Stem Comparison Tool | yojimg.net
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Old 09-11-21, 01:07 PM
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On a bike which I ride only occasionally, I went from a 120 stem down to 80. The 120 was too long and the 80 is too short, for proper fit. 100s are hard to get, right now, but I had the 80 on hand. I can, for now, better deal with the shorter stem.

The 80 stem makes the bike feel decidedly more twitchy than the 120, initially. But, that is forgotten after one or two hundred yards of riding.
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Old 09-11-21, 03:36 PM
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^ 100mm stems are $10 on Amazon and deliver in 1 to 2 days.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B094J...sin_title&th=1
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Old 09-12-21, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
^ 100mm stems are $10 on Amazon and deliver in 1 to 2 days.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B094J...sin_title&th=1
Thanks! But I have my heart set on this one:
https://www.modernbike.com/nitto-you...d-x-100-silver
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Old 09-12-21, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Frank S View Post
Thanks! But I have my heart set on this one:
https://www.modernbike.com/nitto-you...d-x-100-silver
Oh, 25.4 quill stem?...yeah that's different for sure.
Do you have a bike co-op near you? There are endless quill stems at ours.
I have a few in my garage that are 90mm-110mm in 25.4 bar size that are all from the 80s.

Or maybe buy one that isn't the Nitto, and wait for it to be in stock? I would think riding an ill-fitting bike with temporary stem is less appealing than riding a properly fitting bike with a temporary stem.

https://www.benscycle.com/zoom-he-1-...hoChmYQAvD_BwE

https://www.modernbike.com/product-2...xoCJL8QAvD_BwE
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Old 09-12-21, 10:21 AM
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I may have missed this suggestion, but if not, see if the LBS will swap the 110 stem for a 90 to do a test ride. It should only take a few minutes and shortening the stem won’t impact cable length. 61cm bikes are probably still not flying out of the shops even with the pandemic, so they might be willing to do the swap.

At that point you should be able to have a good idea if the bigger frame is good for you. At least you will know if the added bar height is better than the shorter stem.

John
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Old 09-14-21, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Ok, both having the same bar(reach, drop, and rise) evens things out a bit. Below is a picture of your current stem(red) and the new 58(blue). You can see that would need a 17deg positive rise stem in 110mm length to pretty much match your current setup. This is because the new 58 has 14mm less stack height. Technically you could use the 17deg positive rise 110mm stem and remove a 5mm spacer to get it to within 1mm of your current bike's handlebar position.

Point being- a new 58 would require a more heavily angled stem to get you close to/at where your position is now.
Where did you get your stack numbers from? I just put this together https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/s...-comp-2021-61/ and from this it looks like the new 58 is 1mm higher stack and 2mm longer reach (not the -14mm stack you stated).

p.s. Have not yet gone in because I am waiting to hear from specialized that I can use their crash replacement program for 20% off.
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Old 09-14-21, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tedder987 View Post
Where did you get your stack numbers from? I just put this together https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/s...-comp-2021-61/ and from this it looks like the new 58 is 1mm higher stack and 2mm longer reach (not the -14mm stack you stated).

p.s. Have not yet gone in because I am waiting to hear from specialized that I can use their crash replacement program for 20% off.
I referenced the drop down geometry on the site you linked initially. Looks like the 99spokes geometry you referenced conflicts with whats on geometrygeeks.


Geometry Geeks info
Current bike stack and reach- 629mm and 390mm
New 58 stack and reach- 630 and 392
New 61 stack and reach- 665 and 398

99spokes info from the link you provided in the first post- https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=s...;*z.58cm|w.700
Current bike stack and reach- 644mm and 386mm
New 58 stack and reach- 630mm and 392
New 61 stack and reach- 665mm and 398
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Old 09-14-21, 03:53 PM
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It looks like 99 spokes and Geometry geeks are right for the new 2021 58 cm (630/392 verified on specialized.com) but 99spokes is wrong about the 2017 58 which looks like it should be (629/390) which geometry geeks got right, but 99spokes got wrong. So basically the new 58 is 1mm taller and 2mm longer. A new 61 is 8mm longer and 31mm higher.

https://www.roadbikereview.com/threa...359076&slide=0

Just can't trust everything you read on the internet I guess.
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Old 09-14-21, 06:39 PM
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If it were me, which it isn't, and if I couldn't ride both and play with setup, which it seems that you can't, I'd go 61 at your height. But, then, I'm 5'11", and I've been riding 58 cm frames since I was a teenager. With two exceptions... I had a 60 cm Cannondale, which fit great because Cannondale measured their frames to the top of the extended seat tube, and my current '85 Fuji, which is a 24" CTT, but has a 22.5" top tube... plus, I bought it thinking it was a 58. Given that I'm pretty much dialed with a 105 mm stem, I'd say that it fits. The standover is a bit tight, and there's a bit less than a fistful of seatpost showing, but on the road we get along great.

But then, I've never been a fan of the "get the smallest bike that can be made to fit" school of bike fitting. To me, it makes for a less comfortable bike and weird handling. Others love that feel, and they're not wrong.

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Old 09-15-21, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Oh, 25.4 quill stem?...yeah that's different for sure.
Do you have a bike co-op near you? There are endless quill stems at ours.
I have a few in my garage that are 90mm-110mm in 25.4 bar size that are all from the 80s.

Or maybe buy one that isn't the Nitto, and wait for it to be in stock? I would think riding an ill-fitting bike with temporary stem is less appealing than riding a properly fitting bike with a temporary stem.

https://www.benscycle.com/zoom-he-1-...hoChmYQAvD_BwE

https://www.modernbike.com/product-2...xoCJL8QAvD_BwE
You're right! I put one on order. Thanks for the push.
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Old 09-15-21, 10:43 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by tedder987 View Post
Last weekend I broke the frame on my 2017 Roubaix 58cm. Damaged a seat stay (repairable) but also put a crack that ran from the exit of the derailleur cable over to the top of the hanger. The repair shop was not sure they could repair that without affecting the hanger position, and while they could try they would also not warranty that repair at all. So it looks like I need a new frame and we all know what the supply chain is like right now.

I am 6'2.5" and a bit longer in the leg. The Spz sizing charts suggest a 58 up to 6'2" and a 61 for 6'2--6'5"
...
So what is the consensus of the internet about this? Should I avoid the 61 and wait 3 months (arbitrary guess) for a 58 to come available?
So many considerations...
if you haven't decided yet... some of my thoughts...
Body proportions... I'm quite long legs/short torso... was 5'11"+ at 30yrs, now 5' 9" (at 72...) back in the day, I rode 59 or 60cm steel. - couldn't get a seatpost back then, long enough to ride 58...
I always found the larger frames a bit 'truckish', and 'slow' handling ...
I could go into all the 'numbers' thing on how I do setup - that would be too much, save it to say my 12 roadies are all set to give the same 'position', except my shopping/errands roubaix.
now, I ride 56cm Spec Tarmac or Roubaix, 57cm on steel...
The smaller frame is always more 'lively', more responsive, more fun for me... I actually rode a 58cm Spec Tarmac for a few days, back when I bought my first CF bike, courtesy of LBS.
then rode the 56 cm - NIGHT & DAY - HUGE difference !!! The smaller 56 felt so much better, more me handling it than it handling me, way more fun!
You're 53... I started really noticing my change in body Dims in the mid-50s. We ALL get shorter as we age. The major change is in torso length, the legs pretty much stay the same if you don't have major knee or hip issues... My inseam has hardly changed in all this time, my torso has shortened just over 2 inches... But I may be extra special in that sense... LOL!
But I've never heard of anyone getting taller, except those who have visited with the undertaker... LOL!
Go Ride a 60-61 frame, if you can, see how it feels...
IF, you can make the 58 cm fit/work for you now - if it was me, I'd stay with that size...
You WILL grow into it... LOL!
Thx
Yuri
EDIT: Stem... I never liked going to a shorter stem because it put my 'weight' back further... made handling much squirrlier, especially on fast downhills !
really disliked having to go to a 90 on some frames... had no choice when I was given a frame/bike to ride...
I try to stay 10 or better 11 or 12 (depending whats needed to achieve my reach).... much easier to get some stability in the front end, especially on downhills.
I have a ton of back issues, but don;t have a problem getting forward... if the seat is properly positioned - which is usually quite a bit 'back' - nose from BB 78mm...
hope this helps in some fashion...

Last edited by cyclezen; 09-15-21 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 09-16-21, 11:08 AM
  #25  
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Well, I bit the bullet and ordered a 58 yesterday (using my crash replacement program discount). The shop cannot say how long its going to be before I actually get a bike. Best case maybe November. Probably by February but it might be longer.
@cyclezen's comment about the truck-like handling pushed me over the edge. I remember test riding 61cms back in 2014 and using the exact same phrasing, trucklike. My 58, while also a generation newer was vastly more agile.

Also, seems that for 2022, Spz is not selling any mech ultegra Roubaix's and the comp-level Di2 is gone as well. It jumps from mech 105 to SRAM Rival AXS etap (and I ordered the 105).
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