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Do You Use the Large Front Chainring/Large Rear Cog Combination?

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View Poll Results: Do You Use the Large Front Chainring/Large Rear Cog Combination?
Yes
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46.79%
No
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Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

Do You Use the Large Front Chainring/Large Rear Cog Combination?

Old 09-11-21, 04:44 AM
  #26  
Ghazmh
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If I do inadvertently shift into that combination the chain makes unpleasant noises reminding me and then I quickly correct it.
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Old 09-11-21, 05:02 AM
  #27  
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I have a 1x 46 front 32 rear, so yeah. Even before I converted my bike to a 1x I still used the big-big combination. Never had any issues.
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Old 09-11-21, 05:43 AM
  #28  
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[X] Not intentionally.
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Old 09-11-21, 06:01 AM
  #29  
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I remember seeing an article years ago when 10 speed chains came out. It stated that the manufacturing tolerances for 10 speed chains had to be so precise that cross-chaining was no longer a problem. Something about the chains being stronger and more flexible.

Now, I have no idea if that is true, and I cannot find the article but, hell, that's good enough for me! I cross-chain all the time!
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Old 09-11-21, 06:08 AM
  #30  
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Only time I ever do that (large/large) intentionally is when I'm function-checking shifting. On occasion I've overshifted one bike into that combo for startup from a dead stop, though.

On one of my bikes, I habitually use large/2nd largest at a stop. It's 2x7 with 11-28 rear, and the 50/24 combo works well for me from a dead stop. Only stay there about 25-30m or so before upshifting.

On the other bike, no need to go that low even from a dead stop. It's 2x10 with an 11-32 rear. 3rd or 4th largest is good there for starting from a dead stop.

It's pretty flat where I live, so I generally don't ever use the small chainring except for function testing.
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Old 09-11-21, 07:46 AM
  #31  
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I’ve posted this before and have yet to get a definitive answer.

What is the maximum angle the chain should not exceed, because that is really the argument?

About 6 months ago I did some quick and dirty calculations on cross chaining. It was pretty simple based on chainline (adjusting for chainring offset), cassette width, and chainstay length (ctc). The results were low 2 degrees to upper 2 degrees. I think, but can’t remember exactly, that running a 1x11, big or small, was at a greater angle than a 2x7 big-big.

I do think modern chain flexibility plays a part, but not sure if the modern flexibility changes as chain width changes.

John

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Old 09-11-21, 07:59 AM
  #32  
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As @ThermionicScott mentioned, with flexible 10- and 11-speed chains, it is not really a problem, and the derailleur can be set to cover the full range of cogs without making any noise. Why not? Back in the day when chains were a lot laterally stiffer it abused the cogs and the chain, but a lot of things were different back in the day. The point of buying and owning new tech is to use it, I figure.

If I am planning on being down low for a while, I shift up front. For short, punchy climbs, or stopping at traffic lights, or for sudden braking maneuvers when I want to drop a lot of gears so I can re-accelerate .... sure, and as far as I can tell it doesn't hurt a thing. I have 20 or 22 gears (or more ) on my bikes, not for show, but for go.
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Old 09-11-21, 08:41 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
As @ThermionicScott mentioned, with flexible 10- and 11-speed chains, it is not really a problem, and the derailleur can be set to cover the full range of cogs without making any noise. Why not? Back in the day when chains were a lot laterally stiffer it abused the cogs and the chain, but a lot of things were different back in the day. The point of buying and owning new tech is to use it, I figure.

If I am planning on being down low for a while, I shift up front. For short, punchy climbs, or stopping at traffic lights, or for sudden braking maneuvers when I want to drop a lot of gears so I can re-accelerate .... sure, and as far as I can tell it doesn't hurt a thing. I have 20 or 22 gears (or more ) on my bikes, not for show, but for go.
I've wondered from time to time, that as the bike component makers want to have product tiers and offer eg. lower cost 8 or 9 speed options, why they don't release these with the same gauge chains and cassettes that eg. 11 speed uses. You'd by default have narrower cassettes, less cross chaining, and from a tooling perspective, you wouldn't have to make as much of lots of different chains and cogs.
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Old 09-11-21, 09:41 AM
  #34  
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Yes, but only very occasionally and on one specific climb when on my heavy commuting bike with fenders.

To even out wear on my chainrings I ride in to work (quite slowly) on the inner ring and ride home (a fair bit faster) on the outer ring. On the toughest climb I very occasionally, perhaps once a month, go big-big if there is a headwind or if I'm tired. The climb really isn't very long at all - about 0.5km.
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Old 09-11-21, 10:01 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I've wondered from time to time, that as the bike component makers want to have product tiers and offer eg. lower cost 8 or 9 speed options, why they don't release these with the same gauge chains and cassettes that eg. 11 speed uses. You'd by default have narrower cassettes, less cross chaining, and from a tooling perspective, you wouldn't have to make as much of lots of different chains and cogs.
There has been an 8 of 9 or 9 of 10 on 7 speed freehub bodies.

I would guess it is not profitable to produce close tolerance narrow spacing drivetrains at lower cost points. Taking a Tourney level quality and mfg it to 11 speed specs might be a lower level entry bike nightmare.

John
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Old 09-11-21, 10:03 AM
  #36  
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My gearing is 7 speed half-step + granny, so I set the bike up to allow big-big and small-small. Around here in Flatland, I'm almost always in the middle.of the freewheel, so I almost never go into either of those gears.

Watching the TdF, I thought I saw someone (Roglic or Pogachar, IIRC) in the big-big combo, but the image was pretty fleeting, so I'm not sure.
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Old 09-11-21, 12:48 PM
  #37  
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I do sometimes for short climbs, as I usually ride on the bigger ring on the front. I have the 30-46 front and the 8 speed 11-34 on the back. A little cross chain does not seem to put that much pressure on the components, though maybe I am just not seeing it.

For anything longer than a short climb, I need to be in the granny gear on the front anyway.

Its funny, though. Sometimes I read that with seven or eight speed rear, there is not as much angle to worry about. Sometimes I read that the higher number of gears use more flexible chains so they have less to worry about than the seven or eight speeds. Opinions on this seem to be all over the map, IMO.

I don't remember this ever being an issue with my old 1970s ten speed (which I still ride sometimes) but that has only five on the back.
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Old 09-11-21, 12:54 PM
  #38  
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I didn't vote in the poll because the poll did not have an option for my answer:

Almost never, but occasionally it'll happen so I set my bike up so that nothing breaks if it does.

And that's on a bike that's set up such that the big/big is actually a legitimate gear. (On most drivetrains, it's a duplicate.) I'm running a 45/42/30 x 14-26 6-speed half-step + granny, so the 45x26 sits halfway between the 42x26 and the 42x23. So, in theory, there might be a circumstance where the 45x26 would be the ideal gear. In practice, however, that's not really true. If I'm in the 42x23, I'm already going uphill. If things get steeper, I'll likely be needing the granny ring soon enough, so making the double shift to the 45x26 isn't worth the effort. I'm gonna grab the 42x26, and then, if I need to, make the double/double shift from there to the 30x20, and ride out the rest of the hill on the granny ring.

On crossover or wide-double drivetrains, the big/big is almost always a duplicate of another gear on the inner ring, so there's no reason to ever ride in it, even though modern drivetrains can be set up so that it doesn't totally suck. (One should still set up one's drivetrain so that, if one should accidentally shift into that gear, one will not rip the rear derailleur off, bend the dropout, bend or break the chainstay, and brutally crash one's bicycle. Which is what happens when the whole drivetrain locks solid at speed.)

--Shannon
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Old 09-11-21, 01:07 PM
  #39  
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This is like asking if you ride with low pressure in your tires.
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Old 09-11-21, 01:30 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
This is like asking if you ride with low pressure in your tires.
I wanted to understand why my local bike mechanic insists that I can't put wider ranged gearing on my bike. If not for this poll, I would have never guessed that the practice was so common.
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Old 09-11-21, 01:35 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Frank S View Post
I wanted to understand why my local bike mechanic insists that I can't put wider ranged gearing on my bike. If not for this poll, I would have never guessed that the practice was so common.
????
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Old 09-11-21, 01:45 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
????
I dunno what the question is.

His objection is to the capacity of the rear derailleur. I've worked out the gearing, and its capacity falls within the range of gears that I will actually use.

I'm going from the stock 12-21 to 13-28. I'm old, out of shape, and have 10% grades where I live.
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Old 09-11-21, 01:49 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Frank S View Post
I wanted to understand why my local bike mechanic insists that I can't put wider ranged gearing on my bike. If not for this poll, I would have never guessed that the practice was so common.
That has very little to do with the big/big combination. It has more to do with your mechanicís lack of imagination. There are limits to how range you can have but itís a lot wider than most people think. I have had 48/36/20 cranks with an 11-36 cassette for a range of 119 gear inches to 14 gear inches. Recently I dropped down a 44 tooth outer ring because 119 gear inch top gear is too tall. I still have a 110Ē gear which is good enough. Shimano says that you canít do that. Most mechanics would say the same. They are wrong.
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Old 09-11-21, 03:01 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Frank S View Post
I dunno what the question is.

His objection is to the capacity of the rear derailleur. I've worked out the gearing, and its capacity falls within the range of gears that I will actually use.

I'm going from the stock 12-21 to 13-28. I'm old, out of shape, and have 10% grades where I live.
He has a good point. It is generally much better to be able to select any gear combination without any risk of damage, even if it may not be advisable to use the biggest gears together.
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Old 09-11-21, 03:18 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Frank S View Post
I dunno what the question is.

His objection is to the capacity of the rear derailleur. I've worked out the gearing, and its capacity falls within the range of gears that I will actually use.

I'm going from the stock 12-21 to 13-28. I'm old, out of shape, and have 10% grades where I live.
Just change the RD and use whatever cassette/freewheel you want.

John
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Old 09-11-21, 05:44 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
This is like asking if you ride with low pressure in your tires.
Not really. The difference in drivetrain losses (for 11 speed) between running big-big and the closest matching gears on the small chainring is about 0.75 of a watt at 250W rider output. That's pretty insignificant.

Itís not something you do on purpose, but sometimes you don't want to switch to the small ring but momentarily need an easier gear. Following the wheel in front and not wanting to lose momentum by switching to the small ring, and when the apex of the climb is visible and I want to power over it are two situations where it sometimes happens.

Itís really not a big deal if your gears are setup correctly.
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Old 09-11-21, 06:39 PM
  #47  
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If Di2 allows it, it must be ok (once in a while).
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Old 09-11-21, 07:29 PM
  #48  
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Yes, and flat pedals and kick stands!
gm
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Old 09-11-21, 07:31 PM
  #49  
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Only in reverse.
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Old 09-11-21, 09:39 PM
  #50  
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If I occasionally cross-chain, itís small-small. By the time I get to 50/23 uphill, Iím looking to dump into the 34x21 or 19 unless I know the top is very close.

Tadej Pogacar was clearly riding big-big on stage 8 of the Tour, so it canít be too bad. Though he does get all his gear paid for.
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