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Anyone else out there not using padded shorts?

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Anyone else out there not using padded shorts?

Old 10-02-21, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Acknowledged. I entered the discussion, against my better judgement, because I thought that he might be asking questions in good faith. I no longer believe that.



Eh? Are you saying that there isn't a whole lot of insinuations (and sometimes direct statements) to the affect of, "there's no practical reason to wear cycling-specific clothing" being slung about? Some aren't saying that, but a lot are. And I'm not thrashing anyone for asking - I'm thrashing those for not listening and accepting.
I'm pretty sure no one on this thread has made any such insinuation, but I sure see a lot of people on bf using this as an excuse for condescending and insulting posts directed against people who don't use cycling specific kit.

Honestly, I can't for the life of me figure out what the Hawaiian shirt guy did to piss you off so much. He frankly admitted that he didn't understand what other people were doing and explained what he does, which you somehow construed as condescension. Meantime, you tell me you can't see how calling people stubborn or ignorant is an insult. Come on, you're applying a ridiculously transparent double standard here.

BTW. If you check my posting history, I've called out plenty of people for insulting the use of kit and leg shaving, and the like even though I don't do much of any of that. I'm objecting to this whole "my side your side" tone to these discussions. It's friggin tedious.
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Old 10-02-21, 12:17 PM
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I recall many different threads where posters are wearing padded shorts with an addition of butt cream plus hundreds of dollars wasted on pro bike fitting and still coming here whining and complaining about not being comfortable.
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Old 10-02-21, 12:48 PM
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That poster gets no benefit of the doubt from me.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I agree that he's, uh, not very likeable. But I'm just looking at the statements at face value; I can accept the former and I can accept and identify with the latter.

Originally Posted by livedarklions
Sorry, but I've been on the other end of the "you only think you're comfortable because you don't know any better" condescension on bf too many times for me to just let that slide.
Got it, but there's not a bunch of gorilla dung being flung the other way? Look at the winner in the post above, fer chrissake.
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Old 10-02-21, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Honestly, I can't for the life of me figure out what the Hawaiian shirt guy did to piss you off so much. He frankly admitted that he didn't understand what other people were doing and explained what he does, which you somehow construed as condescension.
Let's take a look at the Hawaiian shirt exchange, for example (which I believe was with you, iirc). I'm going to paraphrase, but you tell me if I'm not being fair in my representation -

You(?): not everybody can get all sweaty in their work clothes, and some people sweat more than others.
HS: I'm one of the sweatiest humans on earth and, as long as I keep above an exceptionally low speed threshold, I'm dry as a whistle in my Hawaiian shirt.

So, is that acknowledging and accepting another POV or is that rebutting it? I can't help but see the latter.
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Old 10-02-21, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mdarnton
It's notable how many touring bikers ride with normal shirts (or Hawaiian as mentioned) rather than poly sport-specific.
Iíve done a good amount of touring (just finished a two-week trip of 650 miles last Saturday) and have rarely seen fellow tourist in normal shirts.

Personally, I take two bibs and two jerseys. One is always a full-zip. Itís usually easy to wash them in camp, one way or another. And the pockets are uber handy for your phone, hanky and snacks like Cliff Bars.
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Old 10-02-21, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso
Every jersey I own has a full zipper. And they don't stink if you wash them after you wear them. Maybe that's not possible on tour, I don't know.
See my post above. I did three loads of laundry during my recent tour. One was done at a private campground. The other two were done in towns near where I stayed. Other times I washed my kits in the shower and hung them to dry. Only once did I have to wear an unwashed kit because conditions the night before were no conducive to air drying.
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Old 10-02-21, 06:31 PM
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I only wear padded cycling shorts on rides of over 40-50 miles - and even at that, they are worn under my short-ish inseam hiking shorts that have pockets! Don't even get me started on long pants vs bib tights...

Cycling-specific Jerseys? Nope, don't like them.. Had a few, gave them away. I prefer to wear a wicking t-shirt in either long- or short-sleeve. AND a windbreaker/rain jacket over if necessary.

With my middle-aged Clyde-esque 'aerobelly', I HATE looking like a stuffed sausage in Lycra... I prefer loose-fitting comfort!
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Old 10-02-21, 06:42 PM
  #108  
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Cargo shorts/trousers are just plain NOT a problem for me to ride in. If I don't need a padded-butt, why shouldn't I be wearing what I like? I like pockets. I like belt-loops (something to clip my keychain onto). These garments are loose in specific places to allow movement but that is all. There's no parachuting or flapping going on.
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Old 10-02-21, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
​​​​​​I don't think "ignorance" and " stubbornness " can be taken as anything other than insults. That isn't obvious? Since this evaluation of people's motivations is entirely a subjective judgment, the notion of nonzero number is meaningless.

As I said, noncyclists are wearing bike shorts, so of course the first statement pretty much has to be true.
Why am I not surprised that you once again completely missed the mark.
How ironic though that only a few days ago another poster took offense at your insults.

bowwow , 09-27-21 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I don't have an accusatory tone, I'm making an accusation. You personally insulted someone, that's a rule violation. Stop it. And if you are going to do it, at least be a little clever. There's nothing worse than a boring troll.
As a self-anointed moderator you would do well to treat all members with respect. Otherwise, I am afraid that you shall never attain the status as that of a real moderator.

Good stuff bro

Last edited by downhillmaster; 10-02-21 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 10-02-21, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
That poster gets no benefit of the doubt from me.
Oh, I agree that he's, uh, not very likeable. But I'm just looking at the statements at face value; I can accept the former and I can accept and identify with the latter.



Got it, but there's not a bunch of gorilla dung being flung the other way? Look at the winner in the post above, fer chrissake.[/QUOTE]

Nice job pointing out his inability to take a statement at face value or have a rational discussion due to his obvious bias
Also, nice job expressing your opinion as to my forum likeability.
I sometimes forget that certain people frequent Internet forums in search of approval or companionship as opposed to simply discussing topics.
I hope everyone on BF likes you as it seems very important to you

Last edited by downhillmaster; 10-02-21 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 10-02-21, 10:13 PM
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[QUOTE=Cougrrcj

With my middle-aged Clyde-esque 'aerobelly', I HATE looking like a stuffed sausage in Lycra... I prefer loose-fitting comfort![/QUOTE]
I would feel restricted and perhaps even claustrophobic in tight lycra or spandex. Love baggy shorts and clothes.
I hope nobody gets upset at me, I also love to ride with my shirt off. Partially because I have SAD and partially because the sun really energizes me and soaks into my soul.
When the sun's out , my shirt comes off,especially when I ride my bike. I need that sun like water.
I've tried to explain to neighbors and friends, and even apologize, but you cannot do that going down the bike lane on a heavily packed road.
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Old 10-02-21, 10:14 PM
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Mistake
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Old 10-03-21, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi




Got it, but there's not a bunch of gorilla dung being flung the other way? Look at the winner in the post above, fer chrissake.

I've had a lot of arguments with that guy on similar subjects. But that comment seems pretty mild-- all he's saying is that the gear doesn't work for everyone. Is that even controversial?

Again, I think you're working hard here to find things offensive. BTW, the the guy who only rides downhill is going back on my ignore list. At his best, he's completely uninteresting.

Last edited by livedarklions; 10-03-21 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 10-03-21, 05:49 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Let's take a look at the Hawaiian shirt exchange, for example (which I believe was with you, iirc). I'm going to paraphrase, but you tell me if I'm not being fair in my representation -

You(?): not everybody can get all sweaty in their work clothes, and some people sweat more than others.
HS: I'm one of the sweatiest humans on earth and, as long as I keep above an exceptionally low speed threshold, I'm dry as a whistle in my Hawaiian shirt.

So, is that acknowledging and accepting another POV or is that rebutting it? I can't help but see the latter.

Seriously?! He told me what he does to deal with the problem. I responded with why that wouldn't work for me. I wasn't expecting him to genuflect or whatever.

No, I didn't find his response offensive or any kind of argument at all. We really weren't debating, so a "rebuttal" isn't even implied. I think you and some other people have decided these kind of threads are automatically an argument when they're really just a discussion.

I do think your cheap shot at his minimum speed number is pretty obnoxious, though. It's about the number I find is necessary to keep sweat evaporating quickly. I know this from riding in places with hills and traffic lights. If I said that was the minimum number needed for the "ac" to work, it wouldn't mean I spend much time riding anywhere near that slowly. So I think this is yet another example of you going out of your way to condescend to this guy. If you haven't ever had the experience of not being able to go fast enough to evaporate sweat on a hot day, I want to ride where you're riding. I just had my century time get completely trashed yesterday by having to wind my way through county fair traffic on some two lane roads with virtually no shoulder. About 10 miles of 10 mph or less, and a particularly unfriendly environment for a couple of pretty big climbs (mmm, exhaust fumes!). Only part of my body getting a consistent workout through that was my braking fingers.

Last edited by livedarklions; 10-03-21 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 10-03-21, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AJW2W11E
I would feel restricted and perhaps even claustrophobic in tight lycra or spandex. Love baggy shorts and clothes.
I hope nobody gets upset at me, I also love to ride with my shirt off. Partially because I have SAD and partially because the sun really energizes me and soaks into my soul.
When the sun's out , my shirt comes off,especially when I ride my bike. I need that sun like water.
I've tried to explain to neighbors and friends, and even apologize, but you cannot do that going down the bike lane on a heavily packed road.

That's great if it works for you to treat SAD. If I rode with my shirt off, my back would burn to a crisp, so I'm a little jealous you can do this.
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Old 10-03-21, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Harold74
I don't wear padded shorts for probably 75% of my rides which are almost always in the 40-60 minute range. I find the ride to be moderately faster and more enjoyable when I do wear the padded shorts though. I mostly don't wear them simply because it's not a huge deal for me and I forget about them until I'm 20 min into my ride. Similar to wolf child, when I do wear padded shorts, I wear them under cargo shorts. For me, the two main benefits are:

1) Comfort and, I suspect, improved blood flow to my legs and;
2) Keeps my junk in place well.

Related question: does anybody have any statistics on how much more efficient one rides in spandex vs loose fitting clothing? I normally ride in cargo shorts and a Hawaiian shirt during the summer. When I see other folk out in full spandex for a lunch ride around the MUP, I question whether the benefit is worth the hassle. Obviously, these are not racing conditions other than Strava obsession perhaps. On the other hand, I like to feel speedy even when I've nothing to prove.
Loose wool rando jersey increased my CdA by 0.021m^2. do you want me to calculate confidence intervals?
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Old 10-03-21, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Harold74
Thanks. I was trying to get at something a bit more fundamental though. I'll give it another go for good measure.

When I see lunch hour racers out and about, it seems to me that their setups reflect deliberate choices that prioritize speed over comfort: stiff frames, racing geometry, aero posture, 2 g bike seats, tight clothing etc. They then, it seems to me, have little choice but to use padded clothing to restore some measure of comfort.

In contrast, when I'm out training, I ride a steel touring bike with a relaxed, upright geometry. I add to that a well padded touring seat, 35 mm tires, and the aforementioned cargo shorts and Hawaiian shirt. I generate my own wind in those loose clothes such that a balls-to-the-wall, 45 minute ride in 30C heat will leave me accumulating sweat only under my helmet. I am, admittedly, a bit salty elsewhere. I can train effectively this way, packing no extra clothing, and generating no extra laundry. Over the course of a riding season, I steadily get stronger and fitter, just like a racer. Of course, what I don't develop are the flexibility and handling skills suited to an aggressive road bike setup.

My way of training seems ideal to me. This leads me to wonder why the lunch hour racer folks choose differently. As I see it, the likely explanations, in order of likeliness, are:

1) Racers want their lunch hour training to simulate their racing conditions as much as possible (handling, flexibility requirements, etc).

2) Impulse(s) towards aesthetics & style.

3) Some racers might only have racing bikes.

Whatever the motivations of lunch hour racers are, I'm not judging them unfavorably. I simply seek to understand them.
really?

assos centos bibs with the kuku penthouse are light years more comfortable than your setup, but no use trying to convince you.

on short rides, i typically use inexpensive crew racing short in spandex because they wash easier albeit less comfortable but on a 30 mile spin, i'll suffer a bit
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Old 10-03-21, 07:13 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
If I rode with my shirt off, my back would burn to a crisp, so I'm a little jealous you can do this.
And bugs. I still have a little scar on my are from being bitten by a little flying pest during my recent tour. Mosquitoes were also bad in places. Jerseys arenít 100% mosquito-proof, but they help.
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Old 10-03-21, 07:31 AM
  #119  
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To paraphrase Aleister Crowley, "wear what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."
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Old 10-03-21, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
really?
Really and truly GhostRider. In fact, I challenge you to reproduce a single statement of mine that indicates that I disapprove of anybody else's cycling wardrobe choices. As I see it, I've only done this so far:

1) Share what works for me.

2) Enquire about the details of what works for others so that I may better understand their perspectives.

I'm relatively new to this forum and have received advice in my own threads that has been nothing less than stellar. Here, I'd hoped to give a little back by adding my voice to what seemed like a pretty innocuous discussion. As you can imagine, I regret that choice in spades as the effort I've had to expend defending my position here has grossly outstripped my personal interest in other peoples cycling shorts.

Originally Posted by GhostRider62
...but no use trying to convince you.
3) Why do I need to be convinced? Do you require that I relinquish my own preferences in favor of yours for some reason? I certainly don't require that you adopt my preferences.

4) How do you know that I'm not convinced? Part of the reason that I've been probing this issue is so that I might collect some new ideas that I might incorporate myself in the future.

For the sake all who desperately seem to want me to say this explicitly: all of the reasons that caloso has provided to me in support of his preferences sound perfectly reasonable to me. I don't dispute any of them.

Last edited by Harold74; 10-03-21 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 10-03-21, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Loose wool rando jersey increased my CdA by 0.021m^2. do you want me to calculate confidence intervals?
I'll take the confidence intervals if you've got 'em but, no, that's not really what I had in mind. I was hoping for something like:

1) "Studies have indicated that loose fitting closing decreases cycling efficiency by __% relative to tight fitting clothing" OR;

2) "My own tracking indicates that loose fitting clothing costs me ___ watts relative to tights fitting clothing."

This could take any number of forms that would help assuage my curiosity. I don't dispute that loose clothing increases wind drag and decreases efficiency. Rather, was hoping to understand the magnitude of the effect, relative to other factors, so that I might be able to weigh what I give up in cycling efficiency relative to what I feel that I gain in comfort when I ride in loose clothing.
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Old 10-03-21, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Where are you even getting this from?
It is a theory of my own that I attempted to have vetted by a rider clearly having a better understanding of the competitive cycling world than I (@caloso). Is it really a matter of debate that competitive cycling setup are, in fact, not optimized for comfort? Or, at the least, that an outsider might speculate that to be the case?

Originally Posted by WhyFi
The snark received when I informed you that you weren't familiar with pushing yourself the way those actually training push themselves?
I see. In that case, I suggest that you try to base your understanding of my statements on the actual content my statements rather than your perceptions of my attitude.

To clarify, my "snark" had nothing to do with my failure to grasp the simple physics of energy expenditure and, rather, everything to do with my struggle to absorb your repeated insults with a measure of grace. So far, you've implied:

1) That I am a babe in the woods.
2) That I am a child.
3) That I am Zoolander.
4) That I fail to listen to other posters.
5) That I don't push myself when I train.
6) That I am not asking questions in good faith.

All that, and I haven't insulted you once. Hence my understandable struggle to contain my "snark".
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Old 10-03-21, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I'm thrashing those for not listening and accepting.
You've no way of knowing whether or not I've been listening which means that you've been thrashing me for not accepting. And I'm under no obligation to accept anything just because you, or anyone else, says that it's so. As one who aspires to gentlemanly discourse, my only obligation is to maintain a standard of polite dialog. And I feel that I've done that.

Originally Posted by WhyFi
...as opposed to pivoting to the virtues of Hawaiian shirts...
Is one truly not allowed to pivot to one's own opinion? I feel that everyone is both:

a) entitled to their own opinion and;

b) entitled to espouse what they see as the merits of their own opinion.

That's just... discourse, right?

You comments suggest to me that you do not actually respect my right to harbor an opinion of my own. And I don't feel that the ongoing dialog between you and I is adding much of value to this thread at this point. If you wish to continue, I would like to see our discussion moved to the private messaging system.
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Old 10-03-21, 04:05 PM
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Personally I don't care if cycling kits and spandex outfits increase effeciency, reduce drag and provide slightly better aerodynemics., I still refuse to wear them. I don't race against anybody, I don't chase numbers on strava and I am not interested in looking like a pro... so a little bit of loss in performance is irrelevant to me. ..As far as comfort goes, I've been cycling long enough to know what is comfortable and what isn't. If I told the " lycra crowd " that I am comfortable in my non-cycling clothing they wouldn't believe me anyway, so it's pointless to argue with them.
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Old 10-03-21, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I don't like flappy clothing whe riding, but don't doubt that the Hawaiian shirt would be comfortable.
I never expected my "Hawaiian shirt" concept to garner the attention that it has. Let's hear it for a good catch phrase. Since there's obviously interest (mostly vitriol), I'll add some detail.

For about twenty years now, I've been riding with a backpack on. I have a health condition that makes it very problematic for me to be away from food and/or medication for too long. So I travel with lots of repair gear, a bag of almonds, some lifesavers, and medicine. I've come to view the extra weight as just extra training resistance.

The backpacks that I wear have always been some version of the Deuter Air backpacks which have a mesh screen that separates your skin from the backpack proper and promotes some degree of ventilation. I love 'em. Wearing these backpacks:

1) Reduces the flapping of my loose clothing and;
2) Reduces the effectiveness of my ventilation program although not enough to truly compromise it it seems.

So that's how I deal with the flapping, to the extent that I do.

My approach to heat management originated back in 2014 when I did a summer tour of Southeast Asia as a ride along on one of my wife's business trips. I've always struggled in the heat and never so much as I did on that trip which included:

1) A bike tour of the Mekong delta where I thought that the Canadian embassy might have to helicopter me back to air conditioning.
2) A Ha Long Bay boat tour where I had to alternate 20 min periods on deck with 60 periods hiding in our air conditioned cabin in order to survive.

I brought a bunch of expensive athletic clothing on the trip made by Nike et all, expecting that they surely offered the best cooling solutions that science has to offer. This didn't work at all. Instead, it felt as though I was 24/7 trapped within a sponge that had been soaked in 40C water. Out of desperation, I looked around to see how, for goodness sake, the locals were surviving the summer heat:

1) Wear a loose fitting shirt that mimics a Hawaiian shirt,

2) Wear shirts of silk or linen, not cotton. The Hawaiian shirts that I've mentioned are made of these materials.

3) Learn to operate a hand fan in such a way that you can do it for hours without tiring your wrist or expending a lot of energy. On a bike, this is just the wind, natural and Harold made.

4) If it gets really bad, soak a small cloth and place it on the back of the neck for evaporative cooling. On a bike, I mimic this by wetting the collar of my "Hawaiian" shirts.

As you can see, I adapted every one of these strategies to my bike riding. I may be a "Zoolander" when it comes to my level of sophistication as a cyclist but I'm not such a fool that I don't adopt strategies that work when I witness them working for myself. And I fully acknowledge that there may well be cooling strategies that work better than mine that I've simply not tried. At the same time, what I'm currently doing works well for me so I've not been actively seeking out better strategies. Life is filled with challenges; when I feel as though I've got one licked, I often just move on to the next.

Last edited by Harold74; 10-03-21 at 04:51 PM.
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