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Anyone else out there not using padded shorts?

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Anyone else out there not using padded shorts?

Old 10-03-21, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
If I told the " lycra crowd " that I am comfortable in my non-cycling clothing they wouldn't believe me anyway, so it's pointless to argue with them.
I believe you.
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Old 10-03-21, 06:38 PM
  #127  
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I care more about not having saddle sores than I care whether people see me wearing cycling shorts. Indeed, in the warmer parts of the year like now, Iím usually wearing two pairs of cycling shorts, because that eliminates any issues with soreness.

And, Iíll confess, with the funky old bikes I ride and the eclectic ensemble of gear I wear, I think I am rather a source of amusement for some folks on our trails. Thatís just fine by me.

Otto
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Old 10-04-21, 07:49 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by ofajen
I care more about not having saddle sores than I care whether people see me wearing cycling shorts. Indeed, in the warmer parts of the year like now, Iím usually wearing two pairs of cycling shorts, because that eliminates any issues with soreness.

And, Iíll confess, with the funky old bikes I ride and the eclectic ensemble of gear I wear, I think I am rather a source of amusement for some folks on our trails. Thatís just fine by me.

Otto

This is basically an agreement with you, not an argument. I'm just using your post as an example.

This thread was about padding which, above all, is a practical/comfort/pressure point protection device. It has nothing to do with speed, performance or much of anything else. What you're saying is that the practical considerations of not getting saddle sores outweighs any concerns about image. That seems to me to be the only reasonable approach and it would be ridiculous to try to talk you into sacrificing your health, essentially, for image reasons, or to try to convince you that you don't have these problems when you forego cycling shorts.

Others, like myself, are simply stating that we are not having any problems that padding could be reasonably expected to address, therefore we don't use it. It strikes me as equally ridiculous to argue that we just don't know we're having these issues and are therefore foregoing the "optimal" gear for our needs..

Problem with these threads, and much of what I'm saying is typical of them, is that I see examples of both kinds of the ridiculous "try to convince you" posts, and people quite predictably getting very annoyed with other people assuming they know more about us than we know about ourselves. It is, underneath it all, a really insulting form of condescension. To the extent any of us are doing it, we should all knock it off already.

Ultimately, I think the "problem", such as it is, is that we get invested in our gear as being statements of who we are as people, and when someone doesn't want to conform to our use, we're seeing it as a direct challenge to our image of ourselves. Otherwise, I can't imagine any reason I'd want to convince anyone that what they're doing is wrong unless they were actually describing something dangerous to themselves and others (riding on roads without brakes or using bright rapid flashing lights on MUPS, for example).

I've never gotten a saddle sore in my life and I've never worn cycling shorts. I don't have the slightest idea why that would happen to you but not to me, and all the discussion in the world would probably never let us figure that out. But under those circumstances, it seems completely reasonable that you would wear cycling shorts and I wouldn't. For some reason, a lot of people seem to have a problem with that.
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Old 10-04-21, 08:26 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Seriously?! He told me what he does to deal with the problem. I responded with why that wouldn't work for me. I wasn't expecting him to genuflect or whatever.

No, I didn't find his response offensive or any kind of argument at all. We really weren't debating, so a "rebuttal" isn't even implied. I think you and some other people have decided these kind of threads are automatically an argument when they're really just a discussion.

I do think your cheap shot at his minimum speed number is pretty obnoxious, though. It's about the number I find is necessary to keep sweat evaporating quickly. I know this from riding in places with hills and traffic lights. If I said that was the minimum number needed for the "ac" to work, it wouldn't mean I spend much time riding anywhere near that slowly. So I think this is yet another example of you going out of your way to condescend to this guy. If you haven't ever had the experience of not being able to go fast enough to evaporate sweat on a hot day, I want to ride where you're riding. I just had my century time get completely trashed yesterday by having to wind my way through county fair traffic on some two lane roads with virtually no shoulder. About 10 miles of 10 mph or less, and a particularly unfriendly environment for a couple of pretty big climbs (mmm, exhaust fumes!). Only part of my body getting a consistent workout through that was my braking fingers.
Lol - now you're going out of your way to find offense. I wasn't specific with my "exceptionally low speed threshold" because a) I couldn't recall exactly what it was, b) I don't think that a stated minimum reflects poorly upon performance or ability - it was just a way of saying that the speed necessary was easily achieved. IOW, I interpreted his low necessary speed threshold as dismissive of the needs of others to address sweat during their training.
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Old 10-04-21, 08:29 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Harold74
I never expected my "Hawaiian shirt" concept to garner the attention that it has. Let's hear it for a good catch phrase. Since there's obviously interest (mostly vitriol), I'll add some detail.

For about twenty years now, I've been riding with a backpack on. I have a health condition that makes it very problematic for me to be away from food and/or medication for too long. So I travel with lots of repair gear, a bag of almonds, some lifesavers, and medicine. I've come to view the extra weight as just extra training resistance.

The backpacks that I wear have always been some version of the Deuter Air backpacks which have a mesh screen that separates your skin from the backpack proper and promotes some degree of ventilation. I love 'em. Wearing these backpacks:

1) Reduces the flapping of my loose clothing and;
2) Reduces the effectiveness of my ventilation program although not enough to truly compromise it it seems.

So that's how I deal with the flapping, to the extent that I do.

My approach to heat management originated back in 2014 when I did a summer tour of Southeast Asia as a ride along on one of my wife's business trips. I've always struggled in the heat and never so much as I did on that trip which included:

1) A bike tour of the Mekong delta where I thought that the Canadian embassy might have to helicopter me back to air conditioning.
2) A Ha Long Bay boat tour where I had to alternate 20 min periods on deck with 60 periods hiding in our air conditioned cabin in order to survive.

I brought a bunch of expensive athletic clothing on the trip made by Nike et all, expecting that they surely offered the best cooling solutions that science has to offer. This didn't work at all. Instead, it felt as though I was 24/7 trapped within a sponge that had been soaked in 40C water. Out of desperation, I looked around to see how, for goodness sake, the locals were surviving the summer heat:

1) Wear a loose fitting shirt that mimics a Hawaiian shirt,

2) Wear shirts of silk or linen, not cotton. The Hawaiian shirts that I've mentioned are made of these materials.

3) Learn to operate a hand fan in such a way that you can do it for hours without tiring your wrist or expending a lot of energy. On a bike, this is just the wind, natural and Harold made.

4) If it gets really bad, soak a small cloth and place it on the back of the neck for evaporative cooling. On a bike, I mimic this by wetting the collar of my "Hawaiian" shirts.

As you can see, I adapted every one of these strategies to my bike riding. I may be a "Zoolander" when it comes to my level of sophistication as a cyclist but I'm not such a fool that I don't adopt strategies that work when I witness them working for myself. And I fully acknowledge that there may well be cooling strategies that work better than mine that I've simply not tried. At the same time, what I'm currently doing works well for me so I've not been actively seeking out better strategies. Life is filled with challenges; when I feel as though I've got one licked, I often just move on to the next.
You know what works for me when heat, sweating, carrying capacity, and flapping are concerns? A wicking fabric jersey with rear pockets.
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Old 10-04-21, 08:33 AM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I believe you.
So do I. I ride in different types of clothing depending on the type of ride and am comfortable.

Wonder why some people incorrectly think the "lycra crowd" is so single-minded. Or maybe they don't and are just trying to stir up arguments.
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Old 10-04-21, 08:36 AM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
You know what works for me when heat, sweating, carrying capacity, and flapping are concerns? A wicking fabric jersey with rear pockets.
Took my new Rapha jersey on tour with me last month. Worked great. I tried to "save" it for the warmer days, wearing my heavier, 3/4 zip jersey on cooler days. Definitely had to wear the sporty Rapha on the last day so I would look my best for my triumphant return home.
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Old 10-04-21, 08:46 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Took my new Rapha jersey on tour with me last month. Worked great. I tried to "save" it for the warmer days, wearing my heavier, 3/4 zip jersey on cooler days. Definitely had to wear the sporty Rapha on the last day so I would look my best for my triumphant return home.
You should check out the Core Cargo Bibs, too. Other than team kit, I think I'll do cargo bibs for the foreseeable future. Each of the outer thigh pockets has enough room to carry a couple of snacks (like a pack of peanut M&Ms and a clif bar) without being obtrusive - makes it really easy for me to pack enough snacks for 6+ hour rides, though a bottle refill is still necessary. Oh, and the navy blue bibs look sharp.
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Old 10-04-21, 08:46 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Lol - now you're going out of your way to find offense. I wasn't specific with my "exceptionally low speed threshold" because a) I couldn't recall exactly what it was, b) I don't think that a stated minimum reflects poorly upon performance or ability - it was just a way of saying that the speed necessary was easily achieved. IOW, I interpreted his low necessary speed threshold as dismissive of the needs of others to address sweat during their training.

Sure you were. If that's what you meant, I guess you don't know what the word "exceptionally" means. My impression is you're entirely too literate to misuse the word that badly.

And your interpretation of his statement as "dismissive" is completely unreasonable and yet another example of you standing things on their head to find some imagined slight. If I say I need to go at least 15 mph before the air flow cools my sweat, how does that negate anyone else's needs?
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Old 10-04-21, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Sure you were. If that's what you meant, I guess you don't know what the word "exceptionally" means.

And your interpretation of his statement as "dismissive" is completely unreasonable and yet another example of you standing things on their head to find some imagined slight. If I say I need to go at least 15 mph before the air flow cools my sweat, how does that negate anyone else's needs?
Feel free to go back to tell me the stated speed, but I seem to recall that it was exceptionally low for non-climbing situations, like 10 or 12 mph. As such, I interpret that as "I only need to go..." which is certainly more dismissive than "I need to maintain at least..."
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Old 10-04-21, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
My impression is you're entirely too literate to misuse the word that badly.
Thank you for the edit with the addendum of the compliment.
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Old 10-04-21, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
So do I. I ride in different types of clothing depending on the type of ride and am comfortable.

Wonder why some people incorrectly think the "lycra crowd" is so single-minded. Or maybe they don't and are just trying to stir up arguments.

I find the whole notion of a "lycra crowd" as being pretty silly and it leaves me wondering where you're holding the secret meetings. I guess people are so desperate to make everything a "my team, your team" thing that we just slide right past insinuating that a fabric defines someone's identity.

Could have been worse, I guess, "the lycra cabal" or "the lycra mob" would definitely pack more "you guys suck" oomph.

I'm trying to figure out what crowd I belong to. Maybe I'm "fabric fluid".
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Old 10-04-21, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I'm trying to figure out what crowd I belong to. Maybe I'm "fabric fluid".
Okay, I'll come out of the closet... I'm cargo-pant curious.
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Old 10-04-21, 09:03 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Could have been worse, I guess, "the lycra cabal" or "the lycra mob" would definitely pack more "you guys suck" oomph.
How about "lycra loonies"? I have had loons on the brain since I heard a pair and saw a third last month.
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Old 10-04-21, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Feel free to go back to tell me the stated speed, but I seem to recall that it was exceptionally low for non-climbing situations, like 10 or 12 mph. As such, I interpret that as "I only need to go..." which is certainly more dismissive than "I need to maintain at least..."

Dismissive of what?! The possibility he's not feeling a cooling effect?

You can spin all you want, but I can't see how him saying "this works for me because...." is dismissive of anything other than the negation of it working for him.

According to you, I was the one whose point was being dismissed here, and I can't for the life of me figure out why you think I should feel that way.

BTW, if we're really going to think about it, I'm pretty sure the ambient temperature, winds, and/or humidity is probably going to affect what that speed is more than anything about how we train, but life is too short for such pieces of trivia.
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Old 10-04-21, 09:10 AM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
How about "lycra loonies"? I have had loons on the brain since I heard a pair and saw a third last month.

How about "lycrathropes" and we'll know to avoid you at the full moon. I don't think I'm allowed to make silver projectile jokes.
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Old 10-04-21, 09:18 AM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Dismissive of what?! The possibility he's not feeling a cooling effect?
Really? Dismissive that anyone would have needs more substantial since he's one of the sweatiest humans on earth, yet he only needs to maintain a very low speed. Seems pretty simple.

Originally Posted by livedarklions
According to you, I was the one whose point was being dismissed here, and I can't for the life of me figure out why you think I should feel that way.
I guess we're even, then, because I still can't get worked up over the "ignorance and stubbornness" comment, even if an asshat was the messenger.
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Old 10-04-21, 09:41 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
You know what works for me when heat, sweating, carrying capacity, and flapping are concerns? A wicking fabric jersey with rear pockets.
I've no doubt that does work well for you. I'm usually riding with insulin and some ice in a miniature cooler thing to keep it chilled. It's a bit much for rear jersey pockets.
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Old 10-04-21, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Harold74
2) I can't say enough good things about the ventilation / evaporation potential of a Hawaiian shirt. No doubt, that's why there's such a thing as a Hawaiian shirt. As long as I stay above 20 km/hr, I seem to stay very dry.
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Really? Dismissive that anyone would have needs more substantial since he's one of the sweatiest humans on earth, yet he only needs to maintain a very low speed. Seems pretty simple.
I don't see how that implicates ANYONE else's needs let alone dismisses them. He thinks it's a good idea that other people might want to try. You and I can choose to do so or not, what's disrespectful about that? Actually, I think he's got a solution that probably apples to people whose needs are more substantial than mine because I'm not willing to accept the bagginess inherent in a Hawaiian shirt. It certainly isn't as dismissive as applying pejorative words like "ignorant" and "stubborn" to people. Doesn't one cell in your head say "wait a minute, I just likened 'I wear a Hawaiian shirt because it cools me off' to 'those people are ignorant or stubborn'?"

I give up. I respect and enjoy your posts on most subjects, but there's something about the topic of using or not using cycling gear that makes you unreasonably combative. I can't help it, I think you picked a fight with the guy over precisely nothing.
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Old 10-04-21, 10:22 AM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Harold74
I've no doubt that does work well for you. I'm usually riding with insulin and some ice in a miniature cooler thing to keep it chilled. It's a bit much for rear jersey pockets.

Watch it, you're going to be called dismissive of the needs of the pancreatic normals.

My nieces are brittle type 1 diabetics and they both get incensed at the number of completely uninformed people who want to lecture them on how to manage and/or "cure" it. If I recall correctly, the latest such "advice" was to eat more broccoli.
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Old 10-04-21, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I don't see how that implicates ANYONE else's needs let alone dismisses them. He thinks it's a good idea that other people might want to try. You and I can choose to do so or not, what's disrespectful about that? Actually, I think he's got a solution that probably apples to people whose needs are more substantial than mine because I'm not willing to accept the bagginess inherent in a Hawaiian shirt. It certainly isn't as dismissive as applying pejorative words like "ignorant" and "stubborn" to people. Doesn't one cell in your head say "wait a minute, I just likened 'I wear a Hawaiian shirt because it cools me off' to 'those people are ignorant or stubborn'?"
Context. Stand-alone, I'd agree, but not within context.

"I don't understand why others go beyond what works for me."
"Because xyz"
"My xyz is as bad as it gets"

If you don't think that's dismissive and has implications that others are going beyond unnecessarily, fine - agree to disagree.

And some. Some people are ignorant and stubborn. It's true. *shrug* Others, like yourself, have tried and found that it wasn't necessary, which is all good - you're not among the "some."

Originally Posted by livedarklions
I give up. I respect and enjoy your posts on most subjects...
Love you, too.
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Old 10-04-21, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Context. Stand-alone, I'd agree, but not within context.

"I don't understand why others go beyond what works for me."
"Because xyz"
"My xyz is as bad as it gets"

If you don't think that's dismissive and has implications that others are going beyond unnecessarily, fine - agree to disagree.

And some. Some people are ignorant and stubborn. It's true. *shrug* Others, like yourself, have tried and found that it wasn't necessary, which is all good - you're not among the "some."



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Old 10-04-21, 11:06 AM
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I wear bowling shirts for tennis, rugby shirts for cycling, polo shirts for basketball, and football jerseys for golf. Don't tell me there are better options; that would be ... inconceivable.
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Old 10-04-21, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Context. Stand-alone, I'd agree, but not within context.

"I don't understand why others go beyond what works for me."
"Because xyz"
"My xyz is as bad as it gets"
That's a grossly oversimplified and inaccurate summary the "context":

1) What I didn't understand was why a very particular group of cyclists dons full race gear: those riding on MUP's at lunch hour.

2) Caloso's first "because" was terse and did not answer my root question to my satisfaction. "Because it's comfortable". That's why asked for additional clarification which I received and was grateful for.

3) I said that I am sweatier than most people. That's a pretty far cry from "my xyz is as bad as it gets".

I've felt as though you've been putting words into my mouth throughout our entire exchange in this thread. Your mind reading could use a little work in my opinion.

Last edited by Harold74; 10-04-21 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 10-04-21, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
My nieces are brittle type 1 diabetics and they both get incensed at the number of completely uninformed people who want to lecture them on how to manage and/or "cure" it. If I recall correctly, the latest such "advice" was to eat more broccoli.
Yeah, my favorite is "But you're not fat? Did you used to be really fat?!?".
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