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Could You Spare Some Social Change?

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Could You Spare Some Social Change?

Old 10-11-21, 09:02 AM
  #26  
BobbyG
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How would the situation be different if the "unhoused" person were an injured cyclist and the outreach worker were an Emergency Medical Tech. We can't know if the cyclist would have behaved differently, but would you treat the two different scenarios differently as a passing cyclist?

While everyone on an MUP shares an obligation for the safety and welfare of others, a greater responsibility and obligation is carried by those who carry greater velocity.

Instead of labeling them "Mixed Use Paths", they should be renamed "Shared Pathways" to remind people that we all share the path, just as cyclists often ask motorized traffic to "share the road."
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Old 10-11-21, 09:15 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
This Yahoo article is hopefully the dumbest thing I read all week.


- Huddled against the metal barrier, obstructing one of the two lanes of bike path, we listened while he told us the events leading to C.’s death.
- These were the circumstances when you, spandex-clad and biking south along the river, yelled at the three of us to get out of the path, to which I responded with a predictable vulgarity.
- I was surprised when you returned to insist that I apologize for my foul language and for forcing you to shift lanes.
- Believe it or not, I too am the sort of person who might yell at someone for obstructing a bike lane, or for littering, or for any of a hundred other acts which degrade our civic cohesion and worsen our shared neighborhoods.
- People shouldn't block bicycle lanes or ride motor scooters on sidewalks.
-
I took your behavior as evidence that you, like many of my neighbors, view unhoused people exclusively as nuisances, similar to bad traffic on the 5 or our most recent oat milk shortage. Maybe this was unfair. Maybe you didn’t see that my partner and I were helping a member of the unhoused community, though we wore shirts identifying ourselves as outreach volunteers. Maybe your comment was, as you insisted, entirely civil. If I was wrong, then you're owed an apology and you have it.
That jumped out at me and I closed the window.
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Old 10-11-21, 09:32 AM
  #28  
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"Unhoused". Makes me cringe, that one.
I work in downtown Berkeley and am literally surrounded by the HOMELESS problem for 9 waking hours every workday. It is grim. These people are suffering and many have problems that are not ever going to be fixed.
That said, calling them "houseless" is an insult to their condition. Some of these people have been victimized since before they could walk or talk.
They are indeed HOMELESS in many ways.
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Old 10-11-21, 09:33 AM
  #29  
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Guy yells vulgarities at cyclist that asks him to move and then ties it into how cyclists hate homeless people. Tonight at 10.

What a dumb op-ed.
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Old 10-11-21, 10:18 AM
  #30  
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Maybe instead of standing around blocking MUPs they should get a job. It seems every business is hiring these days.
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Old 10-11-21, 10:20 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Guy yells vulgarities at cyclist that asks him to move and then ties it into how cyclists hate homeless people.
That's the part I liked, "get out of the way" "why do you hate the homeless, you probably eat kittens for breakfast?"
"Spandex clad" is code for a lot of things, it's not appropriate language in any situation.
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Old 10-11-21, 10:36 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by bargo68 View Post
"Unhoused". Makes me cringe, that one.
I work in downtown Berkeley and am literally surrounded by the HOMELESS problem for 9 waking hours every workday. It is grim. These people are suffering and many have problems that are not ever going to be fixed.
That said, calling them "houseless" is an insult to their condition. Some of these people have been victimized since before they could walk or talk.
They are indeed HOMELESS in many ways.
I worked with Houstons Homeless for 4 Years.

Most have Brain Damage.
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Old 10-11-21, 10:42 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Maybe instead of standing around blocking MUPs they should get a job. It seems every business is hiring these days.
In the past I have always been a proponent that working solves the issue. But it really doesn’t for someone who is unskilled, aging, no place to live, and with no mode of transportation.

I’m guessing that it would take $40k-$50k to live in LA, or many urban/suburban areas in California. I don’t imagine there are a lot of businesses are willing to give those wages to someone lacking skills and possibly with any number of extenuating issues.

It is why multiple jobs, or side gigs, have become the norm. If you’re young and work for a company that offers educational programs and add a gig job, you have a chance. If you’re over 40, or 50, and on the street I would think it would be nearly impossible.

John
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Old 10-11-21, 10:50 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
In the past I have always been a proponent that working solves the issue. But it really doesn’t for someone who is unskilled, aging, no place to live, and with no mode of transportation.

I’m guessing that it would take $40k-$50k to live in LA, or many urban/suburban areas in California. I don’t imagine there are a lot of businesses are willing to give those wages to someone lacking skills and possibly with any number of extenuating issues.

It is why multiple jobs, or side gigs, have become the norm. If you’re young and work for a company that offers educational programs and add a gig job, you have a chance. If you’re over 40, or 50, and on the street I would think it would be nearly impossible.

John
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Old 10-11-21, 10:52 AM
  #35  
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Let's not let this devolve into a political discussion about homelessness, please.
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Old 10-11-21, 11:13 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Maybe instead of standing around blocking MUPs they should get a job. It seems every business is hiring these days.
A couple of the people that were standing on the path do have a job- they were working when they were talking with the homeless person who lost their significant other.
It was a waste of an article, but you should at least read it to comment.
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Old 10-11-21, 11:13 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Methinks you just moved the goalposts, and what youthinks is a blatant exhibit of cognitive dissonance.
You keep making assumptions based on one side of the story.
Good and predictable stuff
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Old 10-11-21, 11:17 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
How would the situation be different if the "unhoused" person were an injured cyclist and the outreach worker were an Emergency Medical Tech. We can't know if the cyclist would have behaved differently, but would you treat the two different scenarios differently as a passing cyclist?
While everyone on an MUP shares an obligation for the safety and welfare of others, a greater responsibility and obligation is carried by those who carry greater velocity.
I bet the cyclist wouldnt have told the group standing around to get off the path if it were an injured cyclist and 2 EMTs. That is because it is an obviously different scenario and social behavior has taught us to slow down and dont tell medical events to move aside.
When people are just standing there, that is clearly different from a visible medical event.

Also, telling the people to move is helping to keep everyone involved safe. If people dont know they are in an unsafe position, then telling them will potentially keep them and others safe(so nobody collides into them).
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Old 10-11-21, 11:30 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I bet the cyclist wouldnt have told the group standing around to get off the path if it were an injured cyclist and 2 EMTs. That is because it is an obviously different scenario and social behavior has taught us to slow down and dont tell medical events to move aside.
When people are just standing there, that is clearly different from a visible medical event.

Also, telling the people to move is helping to keep everyone involved safe. If people dont know they are in an unsafe position, then telling them will potentially keep them and others safe(so nobody collides into them).
Agreed, pointing out to people that they are in harm's way is a good thing... and hopefully done politely.
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Old 10-11-21, 11:41 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Let's not let this devolve into a political discussion about homelessness, please.
I agree with not discussing politics.

John
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Old 10-11-21, 12:26 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Also, telling the people to move is helping to keep everyone involved safe. If people dont know they are in an unsafe position, then telling them will potentially keep them and others safe(so nobody collides into them).
I have done so many times. "Please move off the trail when you stop." Things like that.
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Old 10-11-21, 03:22 PM
  #42  
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What I find most interesting is how many people are so triggered by the authors initial description of the interaction that they completely missed the point of the rest of article…. if they even bothered to read it.
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Old 10-11-21, 06:18 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
What I find most interesting is how many people are so triggered by the authors initial description of the interaction that they completely missed the point of the rest of article…. if they even bothered to read it.
The rest of the article piles on the euphemisms and platitudes about the homeless and poor that serve only as a foil to highlight the virtue of the author. Because in the authors mind he is the only one who cares about social problems, not you, you horrible uncaring spandex-clad-oat-milk-drinking-Lance-wannabe. How could a person like you, the cyclist, care about anything except yourself? This is what actually triggered me, not the interaction itself, but the sanctimonious response of the author.
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Old 10-11-21, 07:32 PM
  #44  
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Wow, the lack of humanity on the part of some has greatly populated my ignore list. Thanks!
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Old 10-11-21, 07:43 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
Wow, the lack of humanity on the part of some has greatly populated my ignore list. Thanks!
You expected different responses?

And this comment strongly suggests you were making political commentary. As such, you asked for it.
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Old 10-11-21, 08:09 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
What I find most interesting is how many people are so triggered by the authors initial description of the interaction that they completely missed the point of the rest of article…. if they even bothered to read it.
Understandable, given that was the only part of all this related to cycling.
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Old 10-11-21, 09:14 PM
  #47  
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[QUOTE=mstateglfr;22265614]3 days ago on Friday I loudly said 'MOVE' to a group of 3 women in athleisure who were standing on the right side of a MUP. I loathe MUPs and use them very sparingly, but this was with one of my kids and the MUP is the only realistic way for us to ride from where we started to halfway thru the ride. It is busy with runners, cyclists, walkers, families, etc. We had to come to a complete stop behind them due to cyclists coming the other way.
It was a very minor incident in the grand scheme of things and I didnt even think about it again until just now, but at the same time it was completely absurd and indefensible./[QUOTE]

When I read the last sentence above, I thought that you saw your action of yelling and startling the woman over something so inconsequential as indefensible. Then I read the next sentence.

The only occasion I can think of to yell at people to ‘move’ would be in a situation like people blocking a hall in a burning building or other life and death situ. We come from different worlds.
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Old 10-11-21, 09:22 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
[

When I read the last sentence above, I thought that you saw your action of yelling and startling the woman over something so inconsequential as indefensible. Then I read the next sentence.

The only occasion I can think of to yell at people to ‘move’ would be in a situation like people blocking a hall in a burning building or other life and death situ. We come from different worlds.
I told people who were standing obliviously on a path that is used by runners and cyclists to move.
As we approached I told my daughter to slow down instead of pass because of oncoming cyclists. I then told her to slow more. I then said stop when we were about 10' from them. We then stood there for a second before I said 'yo- move!' and they all jumped in surprise that they were in the way. Others were waiting behind us.

Would you really have sat there in silence?
If I had a different bike I would have dinged my bell, if that is somehow more acceptable to you.
​We don't come from different worlds, we just handle potentially dangerous situations differently.
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Old 10-11-21, 09:33 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
Wow, the lack of humanity on the part of some has greatly populated my ignore list. Thanks!
It's awful that people needed to go to a homeless area by a bridge to talk to a person about how their significant other had died.

Perhaps the author is clouded in their recollection of the incident and the cyclist was actually friendly in the first interaction, but the author interpreted it negatively.
Perhaps the cyclist is already doing so much for the community because they are the founder of a non-profit which provides support to single mom teens for childcare, education, and job resources.


The op-ed is being ripped on because it isnt good. It acknowledges they were in the wrong place and then makes assumptions about the cyclist.
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Old 10-11-21, 09:46 PM
  #50  
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