Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Gear cable broke, can see individual threads

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Gear cable broke, can see individual threads

Old 10-23-21, 08:17 PM
  #26  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,041

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1502 Post(s)
Liked 2,151 Times in 1,122 Posts
Originally Posted by Snowflake6 View Post
Since you believe so strongly that it's not the cables stretching, what is the mechanism by which new cables need to be adjusted not long after they are installed, and then usually don't need adjusting again?
Housing compression, ferrules seating fully, shifter end of the cable seating fully.
Originally Posted by denaffen View Post
Next you’ll tell me guitar strings don’t stretch either.
I KNOW guitar strings stretch, but they're made differently and thinner gauge.
Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Like most quality cables 300 series SS, pre stretched.


1.2mm dia/33 length/5# pull

Elastic stretch - 0.23mm, 0.027%

​​​​​​https://www.spaceagecontrol.com/calc...bmit=Calculate
So over 3' we're talking virtually negligible differences in length.
cxwrench is offline  
Old 10-23-21, 09:05 PM
  #27  
Snowflake6
Sprockets away!
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sidney, BC, Canada
Posts: 83

Bikes: 2021 Prior Prime 105 Disc, 2015 Cannondale Synapse 105 Disc, 1996 Brodie Quantum, 1984 Norco Monterey (SRAM automatix two-speed), 198x Cramerotti Campagnolo Chorus (restored)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 12 Posts
So from two non-bike-cable-calculators offered, you just pick the one that supports your viewpoint? The other one above suggests anywhere from 0.8 to 5mm stretch, depending on assumptions. Even at 0.25mm you could see an effect on your shifting. Try working out how far you have to turn the cable adjustment screw to get 0.25mm of travel on the cable.
Snowflake6 is offline  
Old 10-23-21, 10:06 PM
  #28  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 13,583

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6589 Post(s)
Liked 1,754 Times in 955 Posts
This is stupid. Whether a person claims the housings compress, the ferrules compress, the bike expands .... whatever, we all know that the person putting on a new cable is going to have to readjust it after a shortish while .... I have tried vigorously pre-stretching but apparently not enough.

So .... how about we all get over the verbal cycling shorthand, and help the OP?

Oh, for got ... this is BF.
Maelochs is offline  
Likes For Maelochs:
Old 10-23-21, 10:26 PM
  #29  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,216

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4844 Post(s)
Liked 2,401 Times in 1,421 Posts
Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Like most quality cables 300 series SS, pre stretched.

1.2mm dia/33 length/5# pull

Elastic stretch - 0.23mm, 0.027%

​​​​​​https://www.spaceagecontrol.com/calc...bmit=Calculate
That’s elastic stretch and I have no problem with that value. Elastic stretch happens every time you pull on the cable. Construction stretch is greater but transitory, as stated in the links I’ve provided.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 10-23-21, 10:39 PM
  #30  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,216

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4844 Post(s)
Liked 2,401 Times in 1,421 Posts
Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
Housing compression, ferrules seating fully, shifter end of the cable seating fully.
Have you never reused cable housing with a new inner cable? Have you never used old inner cable with new housing? I’ve done both. With the former, the cable tension will have to be adjusted. With the latter, the cable tension seldom requires adjustment.

I KNOW guitar strings stretch, but they're made differently and thinner gauge.
Yes, they are single strand. As a single stand they are going to stretch in only one direction. A wire rope…aka cable…is a series of single strand wires coiled in a helix. The coils are more like springs than a straight stand of wire. Put a pulling force on a spring and it straightens out and elongates in the process. The links I’ve provided even talk about how the diameter of the cable decrease under load due to construction stretch.

So over 3' we're talking virtually negligible differences in length.
For elastic stretch as I already detailed. I also detailed construction stretch based on values from Bethlehem Elevator Rope which you ignored.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 04:54 AM
  #31  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 13,583

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6589 Post(s)
Liked 1,754 Times in 955 Posts
Why argue with them, @cyccommute? They are "right" in their own little worlds. "Evidence"? Hah, it is all "fake news." The only real evidence supports my prejudices. The rest is lies.

Anyone who has ever changed a cable knows ... the ignorant are free to fight to stay ignorant.

Oh, to return to the days when Darwin sorted out these people .......

Maelochs is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 05:42 AM
  #32  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 8,921

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2095 Post(s)
Liked 2,065 Times in 1,284 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
That’s elastic stretch and I have no problem with that value. Elastic stretch happens every time you pull on the cable. Construction stretch is greater but transitory, as stated in the links I’ve provided.
Directly from your link. Construction stretch is taken out of the equation by pre stretching, not to mention at installation during adjustment. Yes, construction stretch is a thing but typically doesn't play into shifting issues after a proper installation.
FWIW I've installed enough new cables to know readjustment is needed sometime after a cable is installed, whether that's from things bedding in, taking up initial construction stretch,or other factors.

​​​​​​

Structural Stretch

Structural stretch is the lengthening of the lay in the construction of cable and wire rope as the individual wires adjust under load. Structural stretch in Loos and Company products is less than 1% of the total cable length. This form of stretch can be completely removed by applying a cable or wire rope prestretching operation prior to shipment.
dedhed is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 09:27 AM
  #33  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,169

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1986 Post(s)
Liked 3,158 Times in 1,305 Posts
I remember this analogy from an exam:

Elevator rope : Shift cable :: Tractor tire : GP5000 TL
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 10-24-21, 09:59 AM
  #34  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,216

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4844 Post(s)
Liked 2,401 Times in 1,421 Posts
Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Directly from your link. Construction stretch is taken out of the equation by pre stretching, not to mention at installation during adjustment. Yes, construction stretch is a thing but typically doesn't play into shifting issues after a proper installation.
FWIW I've installed enough new cables to know readjustment is needed sometime after a cable is installed, whether that's from things bedding in, taking up initial construction stretch,or other factors.

​​​​​​

Structural Stretch

Structural stretch is the lengthening of the lay in the construction of cable and wire rope as the individual wires adjust under load. Structural stretch in Loos and Company products is less than 1% of the total cable length. This form of stretch can be completely removed by applying a cable or wire rope prestretching operation prior to shipment.
The Bethlehem Elevator Rope site gives values for construction stretch of prestretched cables. I also think the “completely removed” statement may be application dependent. If you are running miles of cable of thick cable, a little bit of left over construction stretch may not matter much. For a bicycle application, the system can deal with the small amount of elastic stretch. But even a small amount of construction stretch can initially throw off the precision of index shifting. I’m not saying that the construction stretch is all that much but it is there and it is enough to require new cables to be adjusted after the initial stretch is gone.

One thing I’ve taken to doing is to run through several shifts without pedaling on a new inner cable install. I’ve found this goes a long way towards getting rid of the need to make big adjustments down the line.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 10:08 AM
  #35  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,216

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4844 Post(s)
Liked 2,401 Times in 1,421 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I remember this analogy from an exam:

Elevator rope : Shift cable :: Tractor tire : GP5000 TL
Depends on how you look at the application. No, you wouldn’t use an elevator rope for a shift cable nor a tractor tire for a bicycle nor vise versa. However, would you say that a tractor tire is nothing like a bicycle tire? Or that an elevator cable shares nothing in common with a shift cable? A tractor tire uses the same construction methods and the same materials as a bicycle tire but, obviously, in larger amounts. A bicycle cable and an elevator cable are constructed in the same way and of the same materials. Similar materials:similar properties.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 10:57 AM
  #36  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,169

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1986 Post(s)
Liked 3,158 Times in 1,305 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Depends on how you look at the application. No, you wouldn’t use an elevator rope for a shift cable nor a tractor tire for a bicycle nor vise versa. However, would you say that a tractor tire is nothing like a bicycle tire? Or that an elevator cable shares nothing in common with a shift cable? A tractor tire uses the same construction methods and the same materials as a bicycle tire but, obviously, in larger amounts. A bicycle cable and an elevator cable are constructed in the same way and of the same materials. Similar materials:similar properties.
The stretch of a cable is highly dependent on the design of the cable, and an elevator cable is not designed the same as a shifter cable because the requirements are very different. Trying to derive the stretch of a shifter cable from an elevator cable is like trying to derive the rolling resistance of a bike tire from a tractor tire.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 12:14 PM
  #37  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 13,583

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6589 Post(s)
Liked 1,754 Times in 955 Posts
Fact is .... cables need to be adjusted after a few rides. I have also tried pre-stretching .... and they still need some adjustment after a few rides.

Call it "Construction Stretch" or "Structural Stretch" or "Ostrich Intestines," in all cases some readjustment is needed.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 05:09 PM
  #38  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,041

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1502 Post(s)
Liked 2,151 Times in 1,122 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
The Bethlehem Elevator Rope site gives values for construction stretch of prestretched cables. I also think the “completely removed” statement may be application dependent. If you are running miles of cable of thick cable, a little bit of left over construction stretch may not matter much. For a bicycle application, the system can deal with the small amount of elastic stretch. But even a small amount of construction stretch can initially throw off the precision of index shifting. I’m not saying that the construction stretch is all that much but it is there and it is enough to require new cables to be adjusted after the initial stretch is gone.

One thing I’ve taken to doing is to run through several shifts without pedaling on a new inner cable install. I’ve found this goes a long way towards getting rid of the need to make big adjustments down the line.
I do this or hold the rear derailleur body in my hand and work the shifter. Same result.
cxwrench is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 07:02 PM
  #39  
BlazingPedals
Senior Member
 
BlazingPedals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of da Mitten
Posts: 12,134

Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, Catrike Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1379 Post(s)
Liked 568 Times in 357 Posts
Regardless of stretch or not, having the chain go off the inner chainring is a problem with the limit adjustments on the derailleur.
BlazingPedals is offline  
Likes For BlazingPedals:
Old 10-24-21, 09:12 PM
  #40  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,216

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4844 Post(s)
Liked 2,401 Times in 1,421 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
The stretch of a cable is highly dependent on the design of the cable, and an elevator cable is not designed the same as a shifter cable because the requirements are very different. Trying to derive the stretch of a shifter cable from an elevator cable is like trying to derive the rolling resistance of a bike tire from a tractor tire.
The only difference between a derailer cable and an elevator cable (or any other cable) is a matter of size. This is a cross section of a derailer cable from Jagwire. Notice the central core wrapped by outer wires?


Compare that to heavier cables. They are of similar construction out of similar materials. They just use more smaller wire ropes to make the larger ones.


Under their designed loads, they will react similarly. Using the values from the larger rope may not be exact but they are a reasonable estimate. Bethlehem Elevator Rope lists sizes from 3/8” to 1 1/16” but they don’t say that there is a difference in the elastic or construction stretch based on diameter. There are slight differences based on the number of strands. Any calculations I’ve done are with the lowest amount of stretch in their table so as to not overestimate the amount of stretch.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 10-24-21, 10:27 PM
  #41  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,169

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1986 Post(s)
Liked 3,158 Times in 1,305 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
The only difference between a derailer cable and an elevator cable (or any other cable) is a matter of size. This is a cross section of a derailer cable from Jagwire. Notice the central core wrapped by outer wires?

Compare that to heavier cables. They are of similar construction out of similar materials. They just use more smaller wire ropes to make the larger ones.

Under their designed loads, they will react similarly. Using the values from the larger rope may not be exact but they are a reasonable estimate. Bethlehem Elevator Rope lists sizes from 3/8” to 1 1/16” but they don’t say that there is a difference in the elastic or construction stretch based on diameter. There are slight differences based on the number of strands. Any calculations I’ve done are with the lowest amount of stretch in their table so as to not overestimate the amount of stretch.
Your claim that the only difference between elevator and shift cables is their size is false, and your continued claim that they are all "similar" is meaningless. They are only similar in the same sense that Columbus tubing is similar to steel drill pipe.

The difference between brake cable and shift cable designs is actually much less than the difference between bike cables and elevator cables, yet shift cables have measurably less stretch than brake cables.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 10-25-21, 08:29 AM
  #42  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,216

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 136 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4844 Post(s)
Liked 2,401 Times in 1,421 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Your claim that the only difference between elevator and shift cables is their size is false, and your continued claim that they are all "similar" is meaningless. They are only similar in the same sense that Columbus tubing is similar to steel drill pipe.
I’ve backed up my claims with information. How about you back up your claim with a citation? The Foos & Co link has a formula for calculating elastic stretch. It does not contain a diameter or area component. It does use a constant for the type of steel used. Foos & Co appears to make cabling from those used on bridges to those used on fitness equipment. They don’t, however, offer a different formula for elastic stretch based on the diameter of the cable.

Bethlehem Elevator Rope also doesn’t call out a diameter in their table. Their table only differs in terms of construction.

As for Columbus tube being similar to steel drill pipe, it is. The same strength measurements are used on both based on the materials of construction. The only difference between a thin walled bicycle tubing and a drill pipe meant to hold pressure is a matter of scale. Their strength is tested in the same way but at different magnitudes.

The difference between brake cable and shift cable designs is actually much less than the difference between bike cables and elevator cables, yet shift cables have measurably less stretch than brake cables.
Huh? Again, care to provide a citation to back up your claims? You said “measurably less stretch” so how about some of those measurements.

There isn’t a “difference” between brake cable and derailer cables other than in diameter and head construction. The diameter difference is very small…1.1 to 1.2mm for derailer cable and 1.5 to 1.6mm for brake cable. The construction is exactly the same. Jagwire uses the same profile for derailer cable and brake cable. They will react to force on them in the same manner. Brake pull is probably a great but derailer cable’s slightly smaller diameter makes it slightly more elastic. Any differences at their applicable loads would probably be minimal.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 10-25-21, 08:52 AM
  #43  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 14,413

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8022 Post(s)
Liked 4,942 Times in 2,867 Posts
Originally Posted by Snowflake6 View Post
Read the discussion again... not CHAIN, but CABLE. Cables can, and do, stretch. Chains do as well, but by so small an amount i'd be surprised if you could measure it... And you'd never notice it when riding because the derailleur would take up the slack anyway.
Chains dont stretch. They wear away, which makes the net result the same when measuring, as if the chain stretched.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 10-25-21, 09:34 AM
  #44  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 12,682

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6619 Post(s)
Liked 6,355 Times in 3,592 Posts
Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
Housing compression, ferrules seating fully, shifter end of the cable seating fully.

So basically, you're saying the cables become too long for the application and need to be readjusted, but they didn't stretch?

Who bloody cares? It's the same adjustment either way.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 10-25-21, 09:43 AM
  #45  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 12,682

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6619 Post(s)
Liked 6,355 Times in 3,592 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Chains dont stretch. They wear away, which makes the net result the same when measuring, as if the chain stretched.

Actually, if you reread the post you were responding to, they actually said the stretch was probably too small to measure. I think it would follow that there is at least a tiny amount of stretching that occurs, but it has nothing to do with the wear you're talking about, That wear is, of course, the real reason we need to replace chains. The tiny amount of stretch is too small to be relevant to anything, and I think Snowflake6 made that very clear.

Not quibbling to start an argument, I just think you're both right. You're absolutely correct for all practical reasons.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 10-25-21, 09:54 AM
  #46  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 14,413

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8022 Post(s)
Liked 4,942 Times in 2,867 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Actually, if you reread the post you were responding to, they actually said the stretch was probably too small to measure. I think it would follow that there is at least a tiny amount of stretching that occurs, but it has nothing to do with the wear you're talking about, That wear is, of course, the real reason we need to replace chains. The tiny amount of stretch is too small to be relevant to anything, and I think Snowflake6 made that very clear.

Not quibbling to start an argument, I just think you're both right. You're absolutely correct for all practical reasons.
I guess?
If something is not relevant and is even too small to measure, then does it effectively exist for this discussion?
And now another poster has said that chains dont stretch, they elongate. Ill just leave that one alone.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 10-25-21, 10:18 AM
  #47  
Snowflake6
Sprockets away!
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sidney, BC, Canada
Posts: 83

Bikes: 2021 Prior Prime 105 Disc, 2015 Cannondale Synapse 105 Disc, 1996 Brodie Quantum, 1984 Norco Monterey (SRAM automatix two-speed), 198x Cramerotti Campagnolo Chorus (restored)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Chains dont stretch. They wear away, which makes the net result the same when measuring, as if the chain stretched.
Oh, of course... Sorry, I was thinking more about an initial "settling in". There is definitely wear over time as you say.
Snowflake6 is offline  
Old 10-25-21, 10:43 AM
  #48  
cxwrench
Senior Member
 
cxwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 3,041

Bikes: lots

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1502 Post(s)
Liked 2,151 Times in 1,122 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I guess?
If something is not relevant and is even too small to measure, then does it effectively exist for this discussion?
And now another poster has said that chains dont stretch, they elongate. Ill just leave that one alone.
This is exactly what happens. Good ole Sheldon Brown explains it nicely, with photos. If anything 'stretched' (the chain plates are the only thing that could) the holes for the pins would get bigger and the whole thing would fall apart.
cxwrench is offline  
Old 10-25-21, 11:26 AM
  #49  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 8,921

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2095 Post(s)
Liked 2,065 Times in 1,284 Posts





dedhed is offline  
Likes For dedhed:
Old 10-25-21, 12:14 PM
  #50  
Phil_gretz
Zip tie Karen
 
Phil_gretz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,003

Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '16 Motobecane Gran Premio Elite, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1459 Post(s)
Liked 1,533 Times in 802 Posts
I don't know about all of this. I'm told that the universe is expanding, and that we can tell this by the red shift. SRAM makes red shifters that are cable actuators, and millimeters count. Cable length expands with initial use, and evidenced by the need to re-adjust tension ever so slightly after the first few minutes of use. How many millimeters for a quarter turn of half turn of a cable stop, 0.5 mm? Oh, sure, some may say that this has to do with housings, or ferrules, or cable stops or the bogeyman, but I'm not so sure... "I seen it. I seen it wit' my own eyes."

What was question again?
Phil_gretz is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.