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New rider: 3.6 FTP. Good or bad?

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New rider: 3.6 FTP. Good or bad?

Old 10-28-21, 05:12 PM
  #51  
collinullrich
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I could see you competing nationally. Maybe the Pursuit or maybe 40Km TT. It takes a couple three years to develop from running. You have enormous untapped and unknown potential. Ride up hills. Cheap way to compare is with an AP called Strava. If you take King of Mountains on local climbs, accept you have talent. How high?? Trust me, you have potential. GL
Really appreciate the kind words. I do have Strava. I used it back when I was running. At risk of sounding ignorant, what is the Pursuit? I can see myself being best at long sustained efforts over several hours. I recover from hard efforts rather quickly and am ready to go again within 60-80 seconds of recovery or active recovery. Example I did a track workout, albeit at 7,000 feet of altitude, as follows: 3 times 800 meters in 2:30 (half-mile) on 1 minute rest, 3 mile in 15:32 continuous, 3 times 800 meters in 2:30 followed by 2 all out 200 meter runs in 26-27 seconds. This was, all things considered, my peak fitness.
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Old 10-28-21, 05:59 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by collinullrich View Post
Really appreciate the kind words. I do have Strava. I used it back when I was running. At risk of sounding ignorant, what is the Pursuit? I can see myself being best at long sustained efforts over several hours. I recover from hard efforts rather quickly and am ready to go again within 60-80 seconds of recovery or active recovery. Example I did a track workout, albeit at 7,000 feet of altitude, as follows: 3 times 800 meters in 2:30 (half-mile) on 1 minute rest, 3 mile in 15:32 continuous, 3 times 800 meters in 2:30 followed by 2 all out 200 meter runs in 26-27 seconds. This was, all things considered, my peak fitness.
Pursuit is a track event. 2.5 miles. One rider against another. From what you wrote, you seem more distance orientated. The reason I said time trial is the power of a larger rider compared to a relatively lower aerodynamic drag vs a smaller rider would be your advantage. In a mass start race, a large rider like you could break away on the flats if for instance, there was a cross wind and the other riders could not get a draft behind your wheel.

Honestly, just ride and enjoy. Join a racing club. Then, join USA cycling and take out a license. Without a lot of work, you would be winning Cat 5 and 4 races....Solo.

Edit: I do not know enough about running but 3 x 800 in 2:30 at 7,000 feet with the other sets sounds like a very serious athlete to me. I might be more impaired at elevation, so, my impression could be off. The level of talent in cycling isn't as deep as in running.....that is until you get to the professionals, which is just the twilight zone and if you notice, I did not comment there.

Last edited by GhostRider62; 10-28-21 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 10-28-21, 06:06 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Who is 90+Kg********************???

These riders are all from the last 10 years. Hardly history.
Typo, should have read 80kg.

Retired = history.
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Old 10-28-21, 06:09 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by tempocyclist View Post
Typo, should have read 80kg.

Retired = history.
Well, I consider the last 10 years to be relevant. Otherwise, I would have to be clairvoyant. I could list many other riders. Those telling the OP that he is too big or fat are just mean jerkoffs.
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Old 10-28-21, 06:18 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Those telling the OP that he is too big or fat are just mean jerkoffs.
Definitely true. That we can agree on!
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Old 10-28-21, 07:08 PM
  #56  
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GhostRider62 has misconstrued my comments that I was somehow criticizing the OP’s weight, this is ridiculous. My comment was regarding his waxing poetic of some far off memory of a doped up Miguel Indurain demolishing Greg Lemond up L’Alpe D Huez. Idolizing that generation of riders accomplishments must be looked at through the lens of those times not used as a benchmark for these. His retort was one mentioning the riders height which had nothing to do with the discussion and then that I was some form of fat shaming dream killer. I wish the OP all the best and hope he succeeds and we are looking forward to his checking in a year from now.
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Old 10-28-21, 07:53 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Pursuit is a track event. 2.5 miles. One rider against another. From what you wrote, you seem more distance orientated. The reason I said time trial is the power of a larger rider compared to a relatively lower aerodynamic drag vs a smaller rider would be your advantage. In a mass start race, a large rider like you could break away on the flats if for instance, there was a cross wind and the other riders could not get a draft behind your wheel.

Honestly, just ride and enjoy. Join a racing club. Then, join USA cycling and take out a license. Without a lot of work, you would be winning Cat 5 and 4 races....Solo.

Edit: I do not know enough about running but 3 x 800 in 2:30 at 7,000 feet with the other sets sounds like a very serious athlete to me. I might be more impaired at elevation, so, my impression could be off. The level of talent in cycling isn't as deep as in running.....that is until you get to the professionals, which is just the twilight zone and if you notice, I did not comment there.
How important is it to have a frame that fits your body dimensions? As mentioned before, I am 6'3" but am riding on a 52 cm frame as I am still doing my research on the type of bike I want. If I were to invest in a 60, or even a 62 cm frame, would this make a difference in my ability to ride faster or is it minimal? I just did a moderate ride that is up on my Strava. Solo, 16.59 miles, 20.6 mi/hr average, 260 feet of elevation gain and an average heart rate of 157 bpm. Keep in mind I still have around 15-20 pounds to shed before I feel comfortable jumping into a race. Also would like to get a carbon bike rather than an aluminum one that was made in 1642.
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Old 10-28-21, 08:05 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by billridesbikes View Post
Probably decent for a recreational cyclist and for fun fast rides, but those numbers aren't going to win any races, even at Cat-4.

If road racing is your intention you're probably too big and heavy anyway, sorry.
Although I'm sure some folks will point out there are taller pros, but they're the exception, you're not. There are one or two Evie Stevens each generation.

Anyway, to do the all out 20min test successfully you have to practice pacing yourself at 95% of your max heart for that long. During the winter months I set aside one day a week for 'FTP' to working on holding an all-out pace for 20+ minutes on the trainer. If there is a nice 25km range time trail in Zwift I'll substitute that for the FTP test. The pacing effort should be similar between the FTP test and a 35~40min TT.
This is the type of stuff that gives people eating disorders. Pretty embarrassing to call someone "too big and too heavy" when they haven't done anything to you. And regarding your comment about being an exception, there are many indicators that point to the fact that you may be wrong, and I may well be one of those exceptions. But I'm sure those don't matter to you. Cheers!
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Old 10-28-21, 10:56 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by collinullrich View Post
How important is it to have a frame that fits your body dimensions? As mentioned before, I am 6'3" but am riding on a 52 cm frame as I am still doing my research on the type of bike I want.
In my opinion, very. Don't rush into buying another bike though until you've figured out what you like / want.

While it might not make you faster, a properly sized and well fitting bike will more than likely enable you to stay faster for longer and in more comfort.

Sizing varies, but I am 5'9" and ride a 52 in most manufacturers.
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Old 10-29-21, 04:37 AM
  #60  
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[QUOTE=collinullrich;22287717]How important is it to have a frame that fits your body dimensions? As mentioned before, I am 6'3" but am riding on a 52 cm frame as I am still doing my research on the type of bike I want. [QUOTE]

Post a picture of you on your bike.
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Old 10-29-21, 06:04 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Any FTP test that means anything is not to be found on a piece of gym equipment. Gym equipment is specially designed to stroke the egos of the customer base.
Yes.

Originally Posted by base2 View Post
I'd trust nothing unless it was 60 minutes. The rest is just guesses.
No. They are well calibrated scientific estimates.
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Old 10-29-21, 06:13 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by collinullrich View Post
Pretty embarrassing to call someone "too big and too heavy" when they haven't done anything to you.
His point should be taken more in the context of the mathematics surrounding the frames and weights of the middle 80% of road racers, not as a critique of your genetically derived size. Most successful road racers over the last 20 yeas have been several (or more) inches shorter than you, and the very best topped out at 75kg, with the premier guys in the mid 50s. The reasons for this are simple: aerodynamics and gravity. Big frames have larger frontal areas and therefore require more watts to to go faster than smaller frames. Heavier masses require more watts to go uphill, and the wats kg calculation go up faster as weight goes down, but nowhere near as fast as the watts go up.

Hence why you've been given some suggestions on disciplines that would suit you- pursuit, velodrome, TT. As to your original post, not much to add, other than if you did some serious training for 6 weeks, on a properly fitting bike (probably a 58cm, or even 61cm), I think you'd find your FTP would be significantly higher, potentially 25-30%.
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Old 10-29-21, 06:15 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by collinullrich View Post
How important is it to have a frame that fits your body dimensions? As mentioned before, I am 6'3" but am riding on a 52 cm frame as I am still doing my research on the type of bike I want. If I were to invest in a 60, or even a 62 cm frame, would this make a difference in my ability to ride faster or is it minimal? I just did a moderate ride that is up on my Strava. Solo, 16.59 miles, 20.6 mi/hr average, 260 feet of elevation gain and an average heart rate of 157 bpm. Keep in mind I still have around 15-20 pounds to shed before I feel comfortable jumping into a race. Also would like to get a carbon bike rather than an aluminum one that was made in 1642.
I'm your height, maybe 1/2 inch taller. I am generally in the 58-60 range. 58 is usually a bit tight but works depending an ST angle. Fit is pretty important. For instance, if the saddle height it wrong, you can lose a lot of power or cause yourself pain or both. If the top tube is too short, it will be difficult/impossible/uncomfortable to position your back flat. Aerodynamics are very important to speed, so, I would say fit is important three ways: 1) comfort 2) power generation 3) Aerodynamics

I like carbon over aluminum myself although I probably own a bike made out of every material. If I only had one, it would be carbon. Many others like steel. I am currently riding a vintage steel bike and it is very, very comfortable but not very fast. Carbon frames are usually shaped for aerodynamics
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Old 10-29-21, 06:22 AM
  #64  
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Colin....Don't know where you live or your budgetary constraints. Dean Phillips at Fitwercx in Peabody, Mass is about 6'4'' and around 195 lbs. He is a very good fitter, especially good with aerodynamics. IIRC, he has won many regional and national titles on the road and track. I think he started as a Triathloner.

Buying a bike now is difficult due to supply chain issues. Used is probably a better idea. I would trust almost any seller on the Paceline forum, the members there are standup and if the offering is from a longtime member, it is a decent risk in my opinion.

https://fitwerx.com/dean-phillips-beyond-the-athlete/
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Old 10-29-21, 06:36 AM
  #65  
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BF is not the place to be asking about bike racing. You will get far better advice from your local bike racing club.

My advice would be to go and introduce yourself to the fast guys in your local area. Donít waste time trying to build yourself up first. You are young and it sounds like you have decent athletic talent. What you need now is to start mixing with local racers and learn the ropes. Some of them will be *******s for sure, but you will find a few who will be willing to help you get started.

You might also want to consider getting a professional coach. Training Peaks is a good place to find one. You can also pick up training plans on there to get started on conditioning.

Finally you should look for a good local bike shop, preferably one associated with your local race scene. Get a bike fit, new bike etc when you are ready.

Come back in another year and tell us how you are getting on. By then you should know your own potential.
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Old 10-29-21, 06:45 AM
  #66  
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[QUOTE=jwalther;22287920][QUOTE=collinullrich;22287717]How important is it to have a frame that fits your body dimensions? As mentioned before, I am 6'3" but am riding on a 52 cm frame as I am still doing my research on the type of bike I want.

Post a picture of you on your bike.
Never happen....
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Old 10-29-21, 07:08 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
BF is not the place to be asking about bike racing. You will get far better advice from your local bike racing club.

My advice would be to go and introduce yourself to the fast guys in your local area. Donít waste time trying to build yourself up first. You are young and it sounds like you have decent athletic talent. What you need now is to start mixing with local racers and learn the ropes. Some of them will be *******s for sure, but you will find a few who will be willing to help you get started.

You might also want to consider getting a professional coach. Training Peaks is a good place to find one. You can also pick up training plans on there to get started on conditioning.

Finally you should look for a good local bike shop, preferably one associated with your local race scene. Get a bike fit, new bike etc when you are ready.

Come back in another year and tell us how you are getting on. By then you should know your own potential.
The very best advice!

Get into it earnestly and you'll know where you are in a year or two - with such running performance it's most likely going to go really well.
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Old 10-29-21, 05:53 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Colin....Don't know where you live or your budgetary constraints. Dean Phillips at Fitwercx in Peabody, Mass is about 6'4'' and around 195 lbs. He is a very good fitter, especially good with aerodynamics. IIRC, he has won many regional and national titles on the road and track. I think he started as a Triathloner.

Buying a bike now is difficult due to supply chain issues. Used is probably a better idea. I would trust almost any seller on the Paceline forum, the members there are standup and if the offering is from a longtime member, it is a decent risk in my opinion.

https://fitwerx.com/dean-phillips-beyond-the-athlete/
I live in Northern California. Am considering at buying a Trek Madone 5.3 62 cm frame 2013 edition from The Pro's Closet. Another quick question, though. Today I did 2 separate rides and totaled north of 50 miles. First ride was 26 and was a very easy ride averaging 15.1 miles per hour. 2nd ride I bonked: absolutely bonked. I went out at 20-22 mph in the flats, around 15 mph climbing and somewhere upwards of 25 mph descending. Ended up concluding the "hammer" effort at around 15 miles give or take and chose to spin easy for the rest of the ride. Let's look at another situation. I go to the gym and hop on the trainer and spin easy at 80-85 rpm and average 230-235 watts for 2 hours, which I definitely think is in my wheelhouse as I type this. If I were to hop on my bike and do that same effort, I would average anywhere from 17-19 mph on the flats. Now, if you look at a rider named Brandon Mcnulty for example, I noticed on one of his recent rides he averaged said statistics (85 rpm and 230 watts) yet averaged 27.xx mph for 100+ miles. What am I missing and why is there such a dramatic change in miles per hour. I feel like I do have 20-25 pounds to lose, but still! 27+ for 100+ is ridiculous, and it seemed like a relatively maintainable effort based on his wattage. Then you have me dripping sweat to maintain 22 on the flats. Is this a fitness difference, an equipment difference or a weight difference? Or all of the above? I figure I'm in decent aerobic shape and estimate I would run a 4:45 mile, my best being just 26 seconds faster. Any explanation to the speed difference as I'd like to be able to ride like that! Lol.
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Old 10-29-21, 07:16 PM
  #69  
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15 miles per week and power estimates from a ****** gym bike. We've got folks prognosticating a future at the national level, others telling him he's too fat for this sport.

Clowns to the left of me! Jokers to the right! Here I am, stuck in the middle of the 41.

Collin - stop asking about how good you could be and just go ride a bike and see if you actually enjoy it enough to take advantage of your motor. It's all moot until you keep your ass in the saddle.
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Old 10-29-21, 07:52 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Clowns to the left of me! Jokers to the right! Here I am, stuck in the middle of the 41.
I just realized that this was in General, not the 41.

Even. Better.
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Old 10-29-21, 08:55 PM
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I'm confused as to how someone can run a 4:19 mile at 180lbs and then wonder whether they have potential as a cyclist. I weigh 50lbs less and have to KILL myself to run a 7 minute mile. But I can still race flat crits at the 4/5 level, which is somewhat decent.

if you ride 100 miles a week for even 3 months, you could probably get to the cat 3 level, no sweat.

btw. I know plenty of guys around 180lbs who race just fine. One of my friends is 175lbs and his speciality is climbing. Weight really only starts to hurt when you're competing against people who are training extremely hard and extremely intelligently. Ie pros.

I'll also reflect the sentiment that "potential" is meaningless unless you're thinking of quitting your job to go pro. Ride your bike, have fun. You don't necessarily need a bigger bike. Just throw on a long ass stem if that's all you can afford. If you don't enjoy riding a bike enough to do it without permission from strangers, then it's not worth getting into racing.

Last edited by smashndash; 10-29-21 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 10-29-21, 10:33 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
I'm confused as to how someone can run a 4:19 mile at 180lbs and then wonder whether they have potential as a cyclist. I weigh 50lbs less and have to KILL myself to run a 7 minute mile. But I can still race flat crits at the 4/5 level, which is somewhat decent.

if you ride 100 miles a week for even 3 months, you could probably get to the cat 3 level, no sweat.

btw. I know plenty of guys around 180lbs who race just fine. One of my friends is 175lbs and his speciality is climbing. Weight really only starts to hurt when you're competing against people who are training extremely hard and extremely intelligently. Ie pros.

I'll also reflect the sentiment that "potential" is meaningless unless you're thinking of quitting your job to go pro. Ride your bike, have fun. You don't necessarily need a bigger bike. Just throw on a long ass stem if that's all you can afford. If you don't enjoy riding a bike enough to do it without permission from strangers, then it's not worth getting into racing.
Understand the OP has been trolling this same bait for over one year.
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Old 10-29-21, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
Understand the OP has been trolling this same bait for over one year.
Makes sense
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Old 10-29-21, 11:08 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
Understand the OP has been trolling this same bait for over one year.

^ Was just worth quoting that bit of truth again.

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Old 10-30-21, 01:24 AM
  #75  
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Considering the OP asked the same question a year ago and still can't complete an FTP test then my answer is he'll never get anywhere competitively.
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