It just doesnt make any sense
11-04-21, 07:51 AM
#401
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Lol .... this whole thread is about some old guy who likes to make controversial statements, saying that 1x is useless and triples need to make a comeback. Even he doesn't believe what he said.
Also, @livedarklions---I make a strict delineation between "flat-bar road bikes" and "hybrids." There are bikes like the Giant Fastroad or the Specialized in post #376, which are designed for quick road riding in a more upright posture as opposed to bikes where the riders tend to sit much more upright and have low-travel front suspensions.
Whatever. I have my issues, you have yours, and the rest of the world is screwed up in too many ways to count. No one I know rides the way you do .... but it works for you.
Also, @livedarklions---I make a strict delineation between "flat-bar road bikes" and "hybrids." There are bikes like the Giant Fastroad or the Specialized in post #376, which are designed for quick road riding in a more upright posture as opposed to bikes where the riders tend to sit much more upright and have low-travel front suspensions.
Whatever. I have my issues, you have yours, and the rest of the world is screwed up in too many ways to count. No one I know rides the way you do .... but it works for you.
Off-topic, I know, but then this thread really never had a topic.
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11-04-21, 07:54 AM
#402
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I'm pretty sure there were several years where hybrids dominated the bicycle sales, and I just think it's damn interesting that people are sort of editing those years out of their memory.
Actually, the bike industry, sales-wise, is dominated by big-box bikes. (https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...walmart-bikes/ Oct 28, 2015 "So-called “big-box” or mass-merchant stores, like Sam’s Club or Costco, sell 75 percent of all bikes in the US, according to the National Bicycle Dealers Association.") but we never include any of them in our discussions. I bet a load of those are triples, too ......
When people talk about "the availability of triples" what they mean is, "the availability of triples on dedicated and at least serious entry-level road bikes" (to exclude things like big-box bikes, which we pretty much always exclude here---because so few of us ride them.) I don't exclude hybrids ior big-box bikes because I don't know they exist but because we simply aren't discussing them. And still, as far as I know, there are no longer any higher--end road triples being manufactured. TB has stuff up to XTR---well, actually, I don't even know if Shimano or anyone else sells MTB triples any more ---but what I see on "comfort-bike" hybrids are usually Claris or Sora .... and the flat-bar bikes I have seen tend to have 2x11.
11-04-21, 08:00 AM
#403
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
but what I missed is you measure that by a watts target, and as we know, all other things being equal, speed is a pretty good proxy for watts (obviously, not in a headwind or on a climb).
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11-04-21, 08:01 AM
#404
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Interesting. Maybe.... triple cranks are no longer made.....or exported to the USA. The triple FD is the hardest part to obtain. I can only recall seeing one tandem that wasn't a triple, a very strong rando mixed team but I am sure plenty of doubles used. Maybe my wife needs to work harder.
11-04-21, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Just for the record. I never said that. You were baiting and trolling. I let many such comments of yours go. There is no such thing as a long 20% descent, you know that. I was not arguing, merely explaining something you obviously are not aware of.
Let's say you are doing la Marmotte in the French Alps and after ascending Galibier, there are long 2-5% stretches before tackling the l'alpe d'huez. A big gear is nice at that point. OTOH, the climb is pretty modest save for one or two very short grunts. I have done it on a racing bike both directions and the northbound twice with 100 pound loaded bike. Such modest pitches are not tuck and stop pedaling stretches. Also, note that I mentioned river valleys as a place where such a big gear is nice, especially with two engines on board a tandem.
Let's say you are doing la Marmotte in the French Alps and after ascending Galibier, there are long 2-5% stretches before tackling the l'alpe d'huez. A big gear is nice at that point. OTOH, the climb is pretty modest save for one or two very short grunts. I have done it on a racing bike both directions and the northbound twice with 100 pound loaded bike. Such modest pitches are not tuck and stop pedaling stretches. Also, note that I mentioned river valleys as a place where such a big gear is nice, especially with two engines on board a tandem.
Last edited by PeteHski; 11-04-21 at 08:19 AM.
11-04-21, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
100-200 bucks always bought a top of the line triple crank.
1x13 is very expensive way to get a gear range, comparatively.
OP said it did not make sense. I am pretty sure I have given a lot of evidence to the support that.
You basically told him to get a clue or to think more about it. Yet, you have not given any real consideration to why a triple makes sense to the OP.
Have you?
Do you think a man of his age would be happy with a 1X on a recumbent in the hills? How about a tandem rider? Trike rider? Any lower W/Kg rider? These are not so tiny markets as a whole, despite your dismissive assertions
1x13 is very expensive way to get a gear range, comparatively.
OP said it did not make sense. I am pretty sure I have given a lot of evidence to the support that.
You basically told him to get a clue or to think more about it. Yet, you have not given any real consideration to why a triple makes sense to the OP.
Have you?
Do you think a man of his age would be happy with a 1X on a recumbent in the hills? How about a tandem rider? Trike rider? Any lower W/Kg rider? These are not so tiny markets as a whole, despite your dismissive assertions
He asked why 3x is gone. I suggested the obvious reasons.
Last edited by PeteHski; 11-04-21 at 08:16 AM.
11-04-21, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
I am glad that you have such deep, abiding love for hybrids ...
Actually, the bike industry, sales-wise, is dominated by big-box bikes. (https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...walmart-bikes/ Oct 28, 2015 "So-called “big-box” or mass-merchant stores, like Sam’s Club or Costco, sell 75 percent of all bikes in the US, according to the National Bicycle Dealers Association.") but we never include any of them in our discussions. I bet a load of those are triples, too ......
When people talk about "the availability of triples" what they mean is, "the availability of triples on dedicated and at least serious entry-level road bikes" (to exclude things like big-box bikes, which we pretty much always exclude here---because so few of us ride them.) I don't exclude hybrids ior big-box bikes because I don't know they exist but because we simply aren't discussing them. And still, as far as I know, there are no longer any higher--end road triples being manufactured. TB has stuff up to XTR---well, actually, I don't even know if Shimano or anyone else sells MTB triples any more ---but what I see on "comfort-bike" hybrids are usually Claris or Sora .... and the flat-bar bikes I have seen tend to have 2x11.
Actually, the bike industry, sales-wise, is dominated by big-box bikes. (https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...walmart-bikes/ Oct 28, 2015 "So-called “big-box” or mass-merchant stores, like Sam’s Club or Costco, sell 75 percent of all bikes in the US, according to the National Bicycle Dealers Association.") but we never include any of them in our discussions. I bet a load of those are triples, too ......
When people talk about "the availability of triples" what they mean is, "the availability of triples on dedicated and at least serious entry-level road bikes" (to exclude things like big-box bikes, which we pretty much always exclude here---because so few of us ride them.) I don't exclude hybrids ior big-box bikes because I don't know they exist but because we simply aren't discussing them. And still, as far as I know, there are no longer any higher--end road triples being manufactured. TB has stuff up to XTR---well, actually, I don't even know if Shimano or anyone else sells MTB triples any more ---but what I see on "comfort-bike" hybrids are usually Claris or Sora .... and the flat-bar bikes I have seen tend to have 2x11.
There was an era when you could get a good triple on a good hybrid. We agree that era is not now. I think you seem to be saying there never was such an era or there weren't many sold, both of which I would disagree with. I wouldn't know if the quality hybrid would still include a triple today because basically, that's a disappeared segment, and the equivalent bikes are now being called something else if they exist at all.
And no, I don't agree that if we're going to talk about the history of the industry and its components, ignoring 75% or better of the market makes a lot of sense. I think you're stating the obvious BF bias as a virtue when I think it's a flaw in these discussions.
You need to discount the importance of hybrids in the demand for triples for some reason. I doubt there would ever have been many 48t triples if it hadn't been for the hybrid. I'm never going to get why you need to write that out of your history. Genug. I'm done talking about this.
11-04-21, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by badger1
Agreed. I tend to think that this illustrates the problem with the term 'hybrid' as it's now used in the Anglosphere: the term is so broad (anything with flat bars that isn't obviously a mountain bike) as to be utterly useless. The Euros often use the term to refer to e-bikes (pedelecs), if at all, and have other categories, e.g. 'flat bar road bike'; 'trekking (or 'tour') bike'; 'city' bike; and so on for what we tend to lump under 'hybrid'.
Off-topic, I know, but then this thread really never had a topic.
Off-topic, I know, but then this thread really never had a topic.
I don't disagree with any of that. If I walked into an LBS in California (where I was) in the early-mid 1990s, though, and asked for a hybrid, I would have had a huge number to select from, but they would all basically be of the same type. They'd also be about half of the stock they'd have on-hand. I think the mass-merchandisers saw the popularity of the bikes and stuck the label on anything flat bar that wasn't clearly a mountain bike, including a lot of totally misconceived crap with lousy suspension, etc., and destroyed the usefulness of the category.
I think the flat bar road bike is actually a lot closer to a 1990s hybrid than a comfort bike is.
But yeah, the label has become meaningless.
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11-04-21, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Let's say you are doing la Marmotte in the French Alps and after ascending Galibier, there are long 2-5% stretches before tackling the l'alpe d'huez. A big gear is nice at that point. OTOH, the climb is pretty modest save for one or two very short grunts. I have done it on a racing bike both directions and the northbound twice with 100 pound loaded bike. Such modest pitches are not tuck and stop pedaling stretches. Also, note that I mentioned river valleys as a place where such a big gear is nice, especially with two engines on board a tandem.
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11-04-21, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
You have to be kidding right? Triples are only cheap because they are obsolete....
A lot of us prefer a triple. Between my wife and I we have 7 bikes, and they all have the granny gear. We don't use it very often, but it's very nice to have that ultra-low range once in a great while. There's no downside that I can see. Front derailleurs are pretty foolproof and easy to set up.
11-04-21, 09:08 AM
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Anyone who loves triples, isn't willing to spend Rivendell-sized dollars, and can tolerate a little mismatch, needs to start buying up Tiaga or even older 105 chainrings and left brifters.
11-04-21, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Anyone who loves triples, isn't willing to spend Rivendell-sized dollars, and can tolerate a little mismatch, needs to start buying up Tiaga or even older 105 chainrings and left brifters.
Last edited by seypat; 11-04-21 at 09:27 AM.
11-04-21, 09:37 AM
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Here you go, 3×9. Could be 3x10. The only Shimano components on it are the hubs and the RD. Could have used different brands of those. Those are dual pivot calipers, BTW. Every bike I build/ride has to get me through this ride.
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29030456
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29030456
Last edited by seypat; 11-04-21 at 09:41 AM.
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11-04-21, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by seypat
Here you go, 3×9. Could be 3x10. The only Shimano components on it are the hubs and the RD. Could have used different brands of those. Those are dual pivot calipers, BTW. Every bike I build/ride has to get me through this ride.
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29030456
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29030456
Last edited by seypat; 11-04-21 at 09:57 AM.
11-04-21, 09:55 AM
#415
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Originally Posted by kingston
Since there are no decent brifter triples, people must be willing to give up a few low gears so they don't have to use bar-end shifters. You can still buy everything to build a new 3x9 or a 3x10 but you will have either sora 9s brifters or bar-end shifters.
I haven't tried them myself, but they pique my interest.
11-04-21, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by John Valuk
Would any of the brake/shifter units from Gevenalle fill any of those needs?
I haven't tried them myself, but they pique my interest.
I haven't tried them myself, but they pique my interest.
11-04-21, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese
Triples are certainly not obsolete. Sugino sells some nice cranks, and the Velo Orange Grand Crux is beautiful. Rivendell also sells a couple different ones. Rivendell uses a triple on the Atlantis and you can get many of their bikes built with a triple. There are other examples of high-end bikes that come with one, and a thriving market for aftermarket triple cranksets.
A lot of us prefer a triple. Between my wife and I we have 7 bikes, and they all have the granny gear. We don't use it very often, but it's very nice to have that ultra-low range once in a great while. There's no downside that I can see. Front derailleurs are pretty foolproof and easy to set up.
A lot of us prefer a triple. Between my wife and I we have 7 bikes, and they all have the granny gear. We don't use it very often, but it's very nice to have that ultra-low range once in a great while. There's no downside that I can see. Front derailleurs are pretty foolproof and easy to set up.
I've just had a look at the Rivendell Atlantis out of curiosity. I guess it's just a very different world we all live in, so not much point in debating.
Last edited by PeteHski; 11-04-21 at 10:20 AM.
11-04-21, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Anyone who loves triples, isn't willing to spend Rivendell-sized dollars, and can tolerate a little mismatch, needs to start buying up Tiaga or even older 105 chainrings and left brifters.
Totally honest question as I have no idea--what do you think a reasonable amount for a new triple crankset would be?
11-04-21, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Totally honest question as I have no idea--what do you think a reasonable amount for a new triple crankset would be?
Those Specialties TA a'la carte triple cranksets from Peter White Cycles look beatiful and I did not do the math on the total cost but if I am gonna guess - say... $280 for a triple might be the ballpark.
Last edited by masi61; 11-04-21 at 12:13 PM.
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11-04-21, 12:38 PM
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Checking online, the Sugino XDs are in the $189 to $240 range.
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11-04-21, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by masi61
At the end of the Ultegra triple "6703" series (i.e. when Ultegra 6800 was released, not sure the exact year maybe 2014, 2015?) , grey market British mail order was blowing some of them out for un-sustainably low prices like $99 to $149 for the 6703 cranks and the 6700/6703 brifters were a bit more expensive but there were deals out there. I bought 2 of the 6703 triple Ultegra front shifters from Jensen USA at $99 each when they were on clearance. I did not even possess a matching 6700 right ten speed shifter but eventually must have found 2 of them since I do have 2 full sets now. I might have paid ~150 for a NOS 6700 ten speed right brifter to make a set. I must confess that both these sets are mounted on bike builds that I have yet to finish and thus have never even ridden this series despite owning these for several years.
Those Specialties TA a'la carte triple cranksets from Peter White Cycles look beatiful and I did not do the math on the total cost but if I am gonna guess - say... $280 for a triple might be the ballpark.
Those Specialties TA a'la carte triple cranksets from Peter White Cycles look beatiful and I did not do the math on the total cost but if I am gonna guess - say... $280 for a triple might be the ballpark.
https://velo-orange.com/collections/...kset-24x34x48t
https://www.benscycle.com/sugino-xd-...xoCFY8QAvD_BwE
11-04-21, 12:59 PM
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No reason to. Go to the Bay and get a used one. Lots of them sitting on the dock.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...nkset&_sacat=0
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...nkset&_sacat=0
11-04-21, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Neese
Triples are certainly not obsolete.
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11-04-21, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
They're obsolete in the same way that the horse and buggy are obsolete -- it doesn't mean there aren't people that still use them.
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11-04-21, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
So these are actually available, would you consider this reasonable if you wanted a triple?
https://velo-orange.com/collections/...kset-24x34x48t
https://www.benscycle.com/sugino-xd-...xoCFY8QAvD_BwE
https://velo-orange.com/collections/...kset-24x34x48t
https://www.benscycle.com/sugino-xd-...xoCFY8QAvD_BwE
But both of them you list do seem reasonable price wise. I'm more of a tinkerer so I would be more likely to build my own triple by using a triplizer from TA Specialties or refurbing an MTB 110/74 set of crankarms and fitting them with some nice chainrings. With all this said, my first choice in a triple drivetrain is to get a Shimano 9 or 10 speed triple matched chainring crank from the 105/Ultegra or Dura Ace Series. Finding these NOS after Covid-19 is going to be a challenge though. Also these Shimano triples really do index in the front if set up properly . The trim clicks and the shifting can be made to be spot on if you know what you are doing when setting it up. You do have to go with the default chainring choices though in order to have the pristine index performance that you deserve.
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