Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Booties + flat pedals with pins

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Booties + flat pedals with pins

Old 11-01-21, 10:56 AM
  #1  
Jno
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Booties + flat pedals with pins

I know there are various approaches to minimizing cold and or wet feet. My question is about only one of those approaches: in particular, Does anybody know if the under-strap and/or the soles of booties/overshoes get chewed up or even ruined by the pins on some flat pedals (such as mine which are Raceface Chesters)?
Jno is offline  
Old 11-01-21, 11:05 AM
  #2  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 38,258

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 352 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19713 Post(s)
Liked 8,219 Times in 4,142 Posts
Why not just wear boots?

Booties are a band-aid to adapt cycling-specific, clipless footwear to conditions for which they weren't intended; they're great if you don't want to plonk down a few hundred bucks on cycling specific winter boots and your needs aren't too extreme. They really don't make sense in your application, IMO, and yeah - I think they'll get chewed up sooner rather than later.
WhyFi is online now  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 11-01-21, 11:11 AM
  #3  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5,437

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Turner 5-Spot, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2401 Post(s)
Liked 2,029 Times in 1,133 Posts
Originally Posted by Jno View Post
I know there are various approaches to minimizing cold and or wet feet. My question is about only one of those approaches: in particular, Does anybody know if the under-strap and/or the soles of booties/overshoes get chewed up or even ruined by the pins on some flat pedals (such as mine which are Raceface Chesters)?
To echo what was said above, the point of those is really to allow for the use of a clipless cleat. I tried them once with normal shoes on flats, but as you seem to suspect, they just get chewed up.

Better to just use a warmer shoe. I use goretex hiking shoes when conditions are cold and wet, and Winter boots for fatbiking in the snow.
Kapusta is offline  
Likes For Kapusta:
Old 11-01-21, 06:47 PM
  #4  
PaulRivers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 6,429
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 35 Posts
I think the workaround for flat shoes is wool socks (mild conditions), waterproof socks, or a waterproof shoe:
https://www.adidas.com/us/five-ten-t...es/S29146.html

Last edited by PaulRivers; 11-03-21 at 12:27 AM.
PaulRivers is offline  
Old 11-02-21, 05:57 AM
  #5  
Jno
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 99 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Agreed, and I’ll be reasonably prepped for rain. I am trying for one-solution that’ll set me up for rain, cold, minimalism of packing, but as I expected, if such a solution existed, folks would have been using it.
Jno is offline  
Old 11-02-21, 08:42 AM
  #6  
Razorrock
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Northwest Arkansas
Posts: 121

Bikes: Litespeed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 17 Posts
I use them every winter with regular shoes and Race Face flat pedals. Probably going on 3 winters. They can be pretty tight so get the largest size and leave them on the shoes instead of taking them on and off every time. The shoe covers are looking pretty ratty but the bottom strap is still holding on. Planning on replacing them this winter.
Razorrock is offline  
Old 11-08-21, 10:52 AM
  #7  
Wilbur Bud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Fishers Indiana
Posts: 440

Bikes: Longbikes Slipstream

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 25 Posts
Yes, pinned pedals will chew them up, but not a lot. I do far worse wearing full covers with teh eggbeaters and even then the covers last years. I find the stretch covers sold as covers are far too tight to help with the cold, so I use the much larger and looser shoe covers from showers pass and since I do not usually switch out the egg beaters until after thanksgiving, I just let the eggbeaters chew a hole in the overshoes and live with that. At the same time, I would say I generally switch to an insulated boot once temps are consistently below 20F.
__________________
Longbikes Slipstream
Wilbur Bud is offline  
Old 11-11-21, 11:49 AM
  #8  
Calsun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 478
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked 105 Times in 84 Posts
A plastic bag between your sock and the shoe will keep your feet dry. For the sock I would go with a poly one that will wick moisture well and avoid cotton or cotton blends.
Calsun is offline  
Old 12-23-21, 09:07 PM
  #9  
UniChris
Senior Member
 
UniChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,778

Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 360 Times in 260 Posts
Spent a very cold two hours this afternoon thinking about the flat pedals vs shoe covers issue.

For once I was actually on a bike (as in two wheels) so my usual unicycle concern of being able to disengage and instantly start running with good traction wasn't as central to it all, which increases strap-under-foot possibilities. And I'm so far content with flat or plastic-pin pedals rather than metal ones.

One thing I can't figure out is if the primary issue is actually the wind chill, or mostly just the cold.

By instinct I'd say the wind, but then I've also found my toes getting cold during winter walks in my Merrill hiking boots with halfway decent winter socks. And if those are allegedly waterproof, they shouldn't be letting in much wind either.

I guess a test I should probably do is try wearing the hiking boots on the bike and see if they help. Or try the plastic bag in sneakers idea. If it's still an issue with the wind blocked, then I'll know it's more than that.

Where my attention keeps going though is trying to make some synthetic fabric covers for the tops of the toes of my sneakers, and either glue them on an old pair of sneakers with something like rubber cement or shoe goo, or attach them with some widely spaced frankenstein type stitching through the sides just above the sole.

And of course what I really should have done was stopped and deployed the pair of toe warmers I'd brought precisely for that concern...
UniChris is offline  
Old 12-24-21, 02:00 AM
  #10  
cjenrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 409
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked 127 Times in 94 Posts
interesting stat: wet feet lose heat 25 times quicker than dry feet. so yes, in cold weather the goal is to keep your feet dry.
but moisture can come from inside the shoe from your feet, usually due to too much insulation by way of socks and or shoes and/or plastic bags.

so what we are looking for is equilibrium.
no moisture from outside leaking in, and no moisture from inside from over-insulation and lack of ventilation.

plastic bags- sometimes they rip at the toes when you put your feet in the shoes. but you never know until your toes go numb two hours into a five hour ride-no good. you can use real heavy plastic, but then you still have the ventilation problem,

winter shoes- very expensive, might set you back 300 for a good pair. you will probably have to travel to find a good pair unless you want to chance mail order. and they have membranes that do not breathe. and they are temperature specific. too cold and your feet freeze. to hot and your feet sweat. And they might be heavy, hard to walk in, uncomfortable during the peddle stroke, they might require a reapplication of some type of waterproofing compound, and they do not protect your socks from getting wet and wicking moisture by the buckets down to your feets. water is heavy. combine that with the pedaling motion and it does not take long to pump sock water down to your feet.

i think it is better to keep the shoe dry.
if kept dry, the shoes will last longer, they will not shrink or get too big, they will not be subject to wind-chill as much, and you will not have to let them dry out between rides.

this leaves us with one option. shoe covers.
many shoe covers have an opening on the bottom as an option for cleats. this is not good in the rain for obvious reasons. especially if you do not run fenders.

so our one option is shoe covers with no holes on the bottom. but what about wear from the pedals?
i solved this problem by making my own gortex covers with no holes in the bottoms, and with two layers of shoe leather where the sole meets the pedals. they are loose around the ankles which allows the moisture from the feet to vent, and they are completely waterproof due to no seems in the front foot area.

so we wear a light running show that breathes well, a pair of defeet wooleators, a pair of light down shoe covers that only cover the shoe, and a pair of the DIY shoe covers. the thin socks allow for good circulation. if it gets to be around 35 degrees or cooler, , we can slip a pair of polatec socks over the wolleators. this makes for a tighter fit in the toe box, but keeps the feet warm. a little bit of toe stretching is required to ward off circulation problems and numbness, but is not a real problem and we like the warm feet.

​​​​​​this system took a lot of trial and error but was highly motivated by the discomfort caused hours of cold, wet, numb feet.
now when i come home and shed gear, there are dry shoes, dry socks, and warm and dry feet. the one layer gortex dries quick and everything is dry and ready to go the next day. we use showers pass rain pants over the full length togs and uses elastic bands to keep anything from rubbing the crankset or chain rings.

when researching this topic on bike forums, i found the general consensus to be:
"your feet are going to get wet no matter what'"
i found this not to be true. and there is no need for anybody to accept this.

we are using regular SR road pedals, if i were using something like suntour bear claws, i would simply cover the bottom of the shoe cover more completely, right now the main pressure area gets a double leather coat over the gortex (one layer of brown "wing tip" shoe leather, and one thin black strip of shoe leather)
laugh it up but i have about 2000 miles of warm dry feet with these puppies, found the shoes for the show on the side of the road>

Last edited by cjenrick; 12-24-21 at 02:17 AM.
cjenrick is offline  
Likes For cjenrick:
Old 12-24-21, 06:06 AM
  #11  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 27,320

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4537 Post(s)
Liked 2,170 Times in 1,481 Posts
Originally Posted by cjenrick View Post
about 2000 miles of warm dry feet with these puppies, found the shoes for the show on the side of the road>
fascinating! got more pics? did you use some kind of glue to assemble it?
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 12-24-21, 07:49 AM
  #12  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,048
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1208 Post(s)
Liked 256 Times in 172 Posts
I use pinned flats on my commuter. Over time they do wear visibly on the soles of ordinary sneakers, but its not too bad. I wouldn't use overshoes with pinned pedals. Imo, get a warm shoe or boot with room for a sock. Note, not all pedals have tall pins like the chester pedal. Mine are more shallow.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 12-24-21, 09:46 AM
  #13  
Inusuit
Senior Member
 
Inusuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: SE Wyoming
Posts: 315

Bikes: 1987 Diamondback Ascent, 1995 Specialized Rockhopper,1989 Specialized Rock Combo, 2013 Specialized Tarmac Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 275 Times in 133 Posts
Originally Posted by Calsun View Post
A plastic bag between your sock and the shoe will keep your feet dry. For the sock I would go with a poly one that will wick moisture well and avoid cotton or cotton blends.
I'd be concerned that the plastic bag would result in wet socks from sweat. I wear wool socks all the time on and off the bike. Wool will provide insulation even when damp. I ride flat pedals so just switch from bike shoes to winter boots when it's cold.
Inusuit is offline  
Old 12-24-21, 10:27 AM
  #14  
Kapusta
Advanced Slacker
 
Kapusta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 5,437

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Surly Wednesday, Turner 5-Spot, Canfielld Tilt

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2401 Post(s)
Liked 2,029 Times in 1,133 Posts
Whether flat pedals chew up the shoe covers is probably completely dependent on the agressivemess of the pins.

My TMAC pedals will do in the sole of a shoe in a couple seasons. I doubt shoe covers would last 3 rides.

A set of smooth beach cruiser pedals will probably not hurt the shoe covers for years.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 12-24-21, 11:19 AM
  #15  
UniChris
Senior Member
 
UniChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,778

Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 360 Times in 260 Posts
Originally Posted by Inusuit View Post
I'd be concerned that the plastic bag would result in wet socks from sweat.
It is a concern, though personally the time I've come in with cold toes I haven't found my socks to feel very wet, granted that's been riding with the wind whistling through the woven tops of my sneakers.

I wear wool socks all the time on and off the bike. Wool will provide insulation even when damp.
Yes, stocked up on smartwool and clones, though was given some very thick acrylic ones that seem like they'd be warmer that I've been using since the moisture hasn't been an issue. I bring spare socks on adventure-scale rides.

I ride flat pedals so just switch from bike shoes to winter boots when it's cold.
Apart from a tour where flexibility is needed, it does seem like footwear designed for the purpose may beat putting a cover over something designed for summer.

What sort of winter boots do you opt for?

I'm thinking maybe what I want to look for is more of a low or mid top inclement weather hiking sneaker. Personally I really want to avoid anything with boot-style unenclosed lace hooks, as getting laces caught in cranks would be bad in fixed gear situations.
UniChris is offline  
Old 12-24-21, 05:48 PM
  #16  
Inusuit
Senior Member
 
Inusuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: SE Wyoming
Posts: 315

Bikes: 1987 Diamondback Ascent, 1995 Specialized Rockhopper,1989 Specialized Rock Combo, 2013 Specialized Tarmac Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked 275 Times in 133 Posts
Originally Posted by UniChris View Post
I bring spare socks on adventure-scale rides.
Apart from a tour where flexibility is needed, it does seem like footwear designed for the purpose may beat putting a cover over something designed for summer.
What sort of winter boots do you opt for?
I'm thinking maybe what I want to look for is more of a low or mid top inclement weather hiking sneaker. Personally I really want to avoid anything with boot-style unenclosed lace hooks, as getting laces caught in cranks would be bad in fixed gear situations.
My go to winter boots for hiking and really cold riding are Asolo Gore Tex mid height. Dry socks mid hike or mid ride are heavenly. Haven't had problems with laces getting caught in the crank, but I keep the laces short and tucked in.
Inusuit is offline  
Likes For Inusuit:
Old 12-26-21, 07:39 AM
  #17  
Hiro11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,553

Bikes: To the right: opinions, not facts.

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 740 Post(s)
Liked 397 Times in 209 Posts
I would just buy a pair of insulated boots, you really don't need anything bike specific with flat pedals. Find one with a small (meaning narrow when looking down from the top) heel so it doesn't hit the chainstays. One tip: search for snowshoeing boots, they work well for winter cycling. Here's an option: https://www.columbia.com/p/mens-fair...kaAlXqEALw_wcB
Hiro11 is offline  
Likes For Hiro11:
Old 12-26-21, 04:11 PM
  #18  
UniChris
Senior Member
 
UniChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,778

Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 360 Times in 260 Posts
Tried my Merrill hiking boots today on the hybrid bike and they were fine, though my toes still got a bit cold even with double socks.

Stopped in at my sister's and was talking to brother in law who immediately observed that they were just hiking boots, not insulated winter boots. That seemed like an important point, though it does raise the question why an "insulated boot" is better than a waterproof boot with warm socks.

Made a point to really check when I came in, and my toes were a little damper than I thought - not "wet" but using actual wool rather than synthetic may help.

After getting back from 15 miles on the bike tried the hiking boots on the unicycle just down the street and that did not go well - crank hit one of the lacing hooks and bent it outwards to the point where I walked the hundred yards back home, so for that I think I want something low top with only full eyelets.

Also just noticed there's another relevant thread here: Winter Boots for Flat Pedals
UniChris is offline  
Likes For UniChris:
Old 12-27-21, 09:27 AM
  #19  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 27,320

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 107 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4537 Post(s)
Liked 2,170 Times in 1,481 Posts
Originally Posted by UniChris View Post
Stopped in at my sister's and was talking to brother in law who immediately observed that they were just hiking boots, not insulated winter boots. That seemed like an important point, though it does raise the question why an "insulated boot" is better than a waterproof boot with warm socks
why get winter tires for an AWD / 4WD SUV? because it's better. Wifey asked me why I got myself new boots. told her I didn't have this:
  • lightweight
  • insulated
  • waterproof
  • easy to walk in
can certainly use good quality winter socks with them
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 12-27-21, 04:58 PM
  #20  
UniChris
Senior Member
 
UniChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,778

Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 360 Times in 260 Posts
Grr. Finally decided to give in an deploy some of the "emergency" toe warmers I'd been carrying from the start of a 15 mile shopping ride.

Didn't do much. Figured maybe they weren't getting enough oxygen to react with in the boots so left them on after I got home.

Still next to nothing - barely detectable even with my hands. Guess I might try ignoring the directions and sticking them directly to my foot, but don't expect much.

Betting the whole bag is bad - they were picked up this summer on closeout but they're hothands brand with a 12/24 expiration date.

What's next, electric socks?

Edit: they seem to have warmed up a tiny bit while I was in the shower, afterward stuck them back on my bare feet inside my clean socks in slippers and I can tell they're there, but not sure if they'd really help on a ride. At the very least I'm now thinking it's worth opening them and exposing them to air for a few miles before even trying to put them on, though not sure how that would work with peeling the sticky backing.

Last edited by UniChris; 12-27-21 at 06:14 PM.
UniChris is offline  
Old 12-29-21, 04:16 PM
  #21  
UniChris
Senior Member
 
UniChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,778

Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 360 Times in 260 Posts
Scored some allegedly waterproof (and at least unvented leather upper) low-top hiking shoes on closeout yesterday, up a size to work with thicker socks. Wore them around the house this morning then crammed extremely thick synthetic socks in them (since it wasn't that cold) and went for a ride on the unicycle. Combined with only riding a bike for the past week or so it took an hour or two to tune my proprioception to their shape and how they interact with the pedals, but by the end I'd developed confidence in them, and the heel seems to hit the cranks slightly less than my usual brand of summer trail runners. They were cheap enough I may actually run back if I get a chance and get another pair a half size smaller for wet summer rides (or even walks) in thinner socks, or in case they stretch too much as they wear in.

But this lead to a major new realization - at least on that saddle, part of the problem is that my right leg is getting just a little bit pinched in a way that makes my right big toe susceptible to going numb. Stopped and walked around in circles for a minute until I could feel it again, tried to remember to get out of the saddle for a moment now and then more on the return half of the loop. But key realization is that the issue can have causes beyond just the shoes and socks.
UniChris is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.