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Stretching Suggestions

Old 11-10-21, 04:30 AM
  #26  
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I really struggle to find motivation for stretching/yoga, but whenever I make the effort over a period of time I do feel a little better for it. I follow a simple routine 2 or 3 times per week as part of my routine training. I use Wahoo SYSTM, which includes basic yoga sessions in the cycling plans.
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Old 11-10-21, 05:54 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by bikehoco
Any suggestions for pre and post ride stretching and/or recommended sites with info?

I have an extremely stiff body and need to stretch daily whether I ride or not. Iím looking to add more stretches to my routine.

I envy people who donít need to stretch.
warm up slowly on bike go a few miles before going hard.
​​​​​post ride stretch.....hammys key, calves & quads..
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Old 11-10-21, 06:24 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by frogman
If you stretch you may be able to prevent a medical issue

If you look at medical studies, there's really no evidence for that, and, on balance, possibly creating medical issues by injury.

I'm ok with people saying stretching works for them, but when they start pushing it for others with fake claims like this, that crosses a line.
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Old 11-10-21, 06:34 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Reading threads that you have no interest in is just a waste of time.

I am interested in this because of the fact that stretching was pushed on me by teachers, coaches and PT people in the absence of any evidence that it does any good. I don't know if it is a waste of time and discomfort for everyone, but I can tell you that I feel a lot better when I don't do it, and I don't waste the time it takes away from my workout time.
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Old 11-10-21, 11:16 AM
  #30  
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You're "assumption" that stretching cannot help to prevent injuries is just wrong. Its fine that you feel fine without doing stretching but don't try to convince others that it is not beneficial. I am not a doctor but my info is based on discussions with doctors and physical therapists that indicated plenty of evidence on this.
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Old 11-10-21, 11:58 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by frogman
Your assumption that stretching cannot help to prevent injuries is just wrong. It's fine that you feel fine without doing stretching, but don't try to convince others that it is not beneficial. I am not a doctor, but my info is based on discussions with doctors and physical therapists that indicated plenty of evidence on this.
The results of a meta-analysis of a large number of studies of the relationship between stretching and injury mitigation or prevention indicated that stretching can be beneficial for such sports as soccer and football but usually not for, e.g., cycling.

From this article abstract:

Sports involving bouncing and jumping activities with a high intensity of stretch-shortening cycles (SSCs) [e.g. soccer and football] require a muscle-tendon unit that is compliant enough to store and release the high amount of elastic energy that benefits performance in such sports. If the participants of these sports have an insufficient compliant muscle-tendon unit, the demands in energy absorption and release may rapidly exceed the capacity of the muscle-tendon unit. This may lead to an increased risk for injury of this structure. Consequently, the rationale for injury prevention in these sports is to increase the compliance of the muscle-tendon unit. Recent studies have shown that stretching programmes can significantly influence the viscosity of the tendon and make it significantly more compliant, and when a sport demands SSCs of high intensity, stretching may be important for injury prevention.

In contrast, when the type of sports activity contains low-intensity, or limited SSCs (e.g. jogging, cycling and swimming) there is no need for a very compliant muscle-tendon unit since most of its power generation is a consequence of active (contractile) muscle work that needs to be directly transferred (by the tendon) to the articular system to generate motion. Therefore, stretching (and thus making the tendon more compliant) may not be advantageous. This conjecture is supported by the literature, where strong evidence exists that stretching has no beneficial effect on injury prevention in these sports.

Last edited by Trakhak; 11-10-21 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 11-10-21, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by frogman
You're "assumption" that stretching cannot help to prevent injuries is just wrong. Its fine that you feel fine without doing stretching but don't try to convince others that it is not beneficial. I am not a doctor but my info is based on discussions with doctors and physical therapists that indicated plenty of evidence on this.

Sorry, dude, but I've researched this thoroughly, there just isn't any such evidence. Go ahead and try to find it, plenty of people recommending it, but no one able to cite any proof that it works. Just a bunch of conventional wisdom. And a general move away from recommending the stretching of cold muscles, where there was actual evidence it was causing, not preventing, injuries. I'm not going to link a bunch of studies, but this sums it up pretty well--it's probably not harmful, but no real benefit and a couple of drawbacks:
https://newcastlesportsmedicine.com....ries-evidence/

I think a lot of PT stuff is in the category of "we only have hammers, everything is a nail" type thing.

BTW, if you detect a note of bitterness here, it's real. Like I said, I find static stretching unpleasant, and believed people when they told me I needed to do it to prevent injury and promote performance. Turns out it does neither. I could have saved myself a fair amount of pain if I'd been more skeptical.

Last edited by livedarklions; 11-10-21 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 11-10-21, 12:22 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
The results of a meta-analysis of a large number of studies of the relationship between stretching and injury mitigation or prevention indicated that stretching can be beneficial for such sports as soccer and football but usually not for, e.g., cycling.

From this article abstract:

Sports involving bouncing and jumping activities with a high intensity of stretch-shortening cycles (SSCs) [e.g. soccer and football] require a muscle-tendon unit that is compliant enough to store and release the high amount of elastic energy that benefits performance in such sports. If the participants of these sports have an insufficient compliant muscle-tendon unit, the demands in energy absorption and release may rapidly exceed the capacity of the muscle-tendon unit. This may lead to an increased risk for injury of this structure. Consequently, the rationale for injury prevention in these sports is to increase the compliance of the muscle-tendon unit. Recent studies have shown that stretching programmes can significantly influence the viscosity of the tendon and make it significantly more compliant, and when a sport demands SSCs of high intensity, stretching may be important for injury prevention.

In contrast, when the type of sports activity contains low-intensity, or limited SSCs (e.g. jogging, cycling and swimming) there is no need for a very compliant muscle-tendon unit since most of its power generation is a consequence of active (contractile) muscle work that needs to be directly transferred (by the tendon) to the articular system to generate motion. Therefore, stretching (and thus making the tendon more compliant) may not be advantageous. This conjecture is supported by the literature, where strong evidence exists that stretching has no beneficial effect on injury prevention in these sports.
That's from 2004, later meta-analyses and studies have found otherwise. Also, notice how limited and specific that claim is, that it may be important in a very small set of activities. There isn't any actual evidence that it is. What it turned out in later studies is that stretching does actually make your joints more flexible, but this actually isn't related to injury. And, yeah, this effect was never believed to apply to cycling in any beneficial way.
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Old 11-10-21, 12:55 PM
  #34  
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Are you a doctor dude ?

I am not and my info is based upon doctors and sports professionals educated knowledge on this. And you are wrong also about not having proof that it does work. I am not going to list a link of studies either. I don't need too, the doctor has done this for me.

At my last visit to my doctor we discussed stretching quite a bit. He was on the Raiders team of sports doctors and said one of the common injuries that football players
get is a pulled hamstring. He said that poor stretching technique or lack of stretching has been a cause of injuries especially a pulled hamstring. They treat this by resting, applying ice, and follow up with gentle stretching to prevent another injury. Other pro sports coaches and team doctors also advovate stretching to prevent injury. running, and go figure cycling, and other pro sports. Could they all be wrong ? haha
Stretching keeps the muscles flexible, and we need that flexibility to maintain a range of motion in the joints. Without it, the muscles shorten and become tight. Then, when you call on the muscles for activity, they are unable to extend all the way. That puts you at risk for strains, and muscle damage.
Now as non professional cyclists, most of us do not train at the itensity of the pros and I think that is where we get the bias towards stretching because we may not derive any benefit and falsely assume it has no value. It depends on your individual exercise intensity. I personally have benefitted from stretching and have recovered from injuries with stretching being the main component in the treatment plan. It is now a regular adjunct to my cycling.

In closing, if you don't want to stretch then don't , its your perogative.
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Old 11-10-21, 01:36 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by frogman
Are you a doctor dude ?

I am not and my info is based upon doctors and sports professionals educated knowledge on this. And you are wrong also about not having proof that it does work. I am not going to list a link of studies either. I don't need too, the doctor has done this for me.

At my last visit to my doctor we discussed stretching quite a bit. He was on the Raiders team of sports doctors and said one of the common injuries that football players
get is a pulled hamstring. He said that poor stretching technique or lack of stretching has been a cause of injuries especially a pulled hamstring. They treat this by resting, applying ice, and follow up with gentle stretching to prevent another injury. Other pro sports coaches and team doctors also advovate stretching to prevent injury. running, and go figure cycling, and other pro sports. Could they all be wrong ? haha
Stretching keeps the muscles flexible, and we need that flexibility to maintain a range of motion in the joints. Without it, the muscles shorten and become tight. Then, when you call on the muscles for activity, they are unable to extend all the way. That puts you at risk for strains, and muscle damage.
Now as non professional cyclists, most of us do not train at the itensity of the pros and I think that is where we get the bias towards stretching because we may not derive any benefit and falsely assume it has no value. It depends on your individual exercise intensity. I personally have benefitted from stretching and have recovered from injuries with stretching being the main component in the treatment plan. It is now a regular adjunct to my cycling.

In closing, if you don't want to stretch then don't , its your perogative.

Then don't lie that's it's proven it prevents injuries and we'll be fine. But if you make the claim, then I'm going to counter it.

If you know anything about this, you'd know that the move away from static cold muscle stretching started because the military doctors found out by studying that their advice had been wrong. I'm not espousing anything coming out of the fringes of medicine, these are the best studies that are available now, and they do suggest that there's generations of doctors and trainers who have been wrong about this the whole time. And yes, it makes a lot of sense to me that the people whose jobs rely on the owners, etc. thinking they know what they're talking about might literally be the very last people to admit they've been wrong.

I don't believe your doctor has this "list" you claim. It just doesn't exist.
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Old 11-10-21, 01:48 PM
  #36  
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I didn't say my Doctor has a "list" where did you see that ? It is based upon exoerience in his practice. Don't put in words I didn't say to improve your point.

I explained my experience with stretching and based my decision on my doctors advice not from self appointed doctors on the forum. Thats fine with me do what you want, its your choice. I will continue stretching because it works for me.

Getting ready to do a ride and will stretch when I return.
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Old 11-10-21, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by frogman
I didn't say my Doctor has a "list" where did you see that ? It is based upon exoerience in his practice. Don't put in words I didn't say to improve your point.

I explained my experience with stretching and based my decision on my doctors advice not from self appointed doctors on the forum. Thats fine with me do what you want, its your choice. I will continue stretching because it works for me.

Getting ready to do a ride and will stretch when I return.
"I am not going to list a link of studies either. I don't need too, the doctor has done this for me."

You said your doctor has done a "list a link of studies". If you don't think you did, you need to work on your writing skills. Frankly, that bit is so badly written that I suppose you could claim it doesn't mean anything, but your doctor has definitely listed something, according to you..


I have no problem with you stretching yourself like a ball of Silly Putty if it makes you feel better. Just stop telling people to do it to prevent medical problems. There's quite a bit of proof that it has absolutely nothing to do with that.

I'll just point out you're the one who gratuitously gave medical advice here and leave it at that. I've said over and over if people feel better stretching, they should stretch. They should, however, stop telling people who don't feel better stretching that they should stretch because made up reasons.

And show me where I told you not to stretch. I double dog dare you. I think there's some evidence that stretching a cold muscle can injure people, but basically it's a pretty harmless practice for those who want to do it.

Last edited by livedarklions; 11-10-21 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 11-10-21, 03:55 PM
  #38  
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Your trolling now isn't making your belief any more credible This is becoming a source of entertainment.
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Old 11-10-21, 04:36 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
The results of a meta-analysis of a large number of studies of the relationship between stretching and injury mitigation or prevention indicated that stretching can be beneficial for such sports as soccer and football but usually not for, e.g., cycling.

From this article abstract:

Sports involving bouncing and jumping activities with a high intensity of stretch-shortening cycles (SSCs) [e.g. soccer and football] require a muscle-tendon unit that is compliant enough to store and release the high amount of elastic energy that benefits performance in such sports. If the participants of these sports have an insufficient compliant muscle-tendon unit, the demands in energy absorption and release may rapidly exceed the capacity of the muscle-tendon unit. This may lead to an increased risk for injury of this structure. Consequently, the rationale for injury prevention in these sports is to increase the compliance of the muscle-tendon unit. Recent studies have shown that stretching programmes can significantly influence the viscosity of the tendon and make it significantly more compliant, and when a sport demands SSCs of high intensity, stretching may be important for injury prevention.

In contrast, when the type of sports activity contains low-intensity, or limited SSCs (e.g. jogging, cycling and swimming) there is no need for a very compliant muscle-tendon unit since most of its power generation is a consequence of active (contractile) muscle work that needs to be directly transferred (by the tendon) to the articular system to generate motion. Therefore, stretching (and thus making the tendon more compliant) may not be advantageous. This conjecture is supported by the literature, where strong evidence exists that stretching has no beneficial effect on injury prevention in these sports.
One thing I have noticed over the years being a 50/50 road/mtb rider is that I need considerably more flexibility for mtb riding than road. Not in terms of range of joint articulation, but in terms of elasticity when bouncing over and dropping off stuff on the trail. It's so easy to pull a muscle on the mtb by riding aggressively when not fully warmed up.
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Old 11-10-21, 05:10 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
It's so easy to pull a muscle on the mtb by riding aggressively when not fully warmed up.
Warm up and stretching is not the same thing...The best way to warm up for a bike ride is to get on the bike and start riding. it's the same way with any other sport or physical activity. The best way to warm up for weight training is to lift weights. The best way to warm up for XC skiing is to start skiing etc etc etc etc...Stretching is completely useless for warm ups or cool downs.
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Old 11-10-21, 05:22 PM
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Yoga is great at all levels of flexibility. Don't be scared.
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Old 11-10-21, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by frogman
Are you a doctor dude ?
I am not a doctor but I am old enough and have enough experience which a gained from self-experimentation to know what works for me and what doesn't work for me .
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Old 11-10-21, 05:26 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
Warm up and stretching is not the same thing...The best way to warm up for a bike ride is to get on the bike and start riding. it's the same way with any other sport or physical activity. The best way to warm up for weight training is to lift weights. The best way to warm up for XC skiing is to start skiing etc etc etc etc...Stretching is completely useless for warm ups or cool downs.
Well that's lucky since I don't do any stretching when warming up. I do stretching as a specific exercise to maintain/improve my flexibility, but never as a warm-up exercise. I sometimes do a few simple stretches at the end of a ride (quads especially). I warm-up on the bike by riding gently for the first 5-10 mins.
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Old 11-10-21, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Well that's lucky since I don't do any stretching when warming up. I do stretching as a specific exercise to maintain/improve my flexibility, but never as a warm-up exercise. I sometimes do a few simple stretches at the end of a ride (quads especially). I warm-up on the bike by riding gently for the first 5-10 mins.
\

Thats what I do and what my doctor says to do, warm up by easy cycling when you are first starting out on your ride. Do not stretch before the ride. Then follow your ride with stretches after the muscles are thoroghlty warmed up. Stretching keeps the muscles flexible and we need that flexibility for the range of motion we put on the joints. Without it, the muscles shorten and become tight. Then, when you call on the muscles for activity, they are unnable to fully extend. That puts you at risk for strains, and muscle damage. I might add that our muscles shrink with age and it is important to keep our flexibility. I was pretty stiff before incorporating stretching in my routine, now I am a lot more flexibile.A simple 10 minute stretch routine is all it takes. It works for me.
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Old 11-10-21, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
I am not a doctor but I am old enough and have enough experience which a gained from self-experimentation to know what works for me and what doesn't work for me .
Same here actually. I know what works for me and what doesn't work for me from experience. I found my doctors advice works for me. That is what I was implying,
it didn't come across that way, Sorry...........
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Old 11-10-21, 06:13 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by bikehoco
My doctor made the same suggestion. But I donít feel limber enough to even start yoga.
Not being limber is as good a reason as any to enroll in a beginner yoga class. I totally concur with what cyclezen took the time to document. Since starting back to just maybe one yoga class a week (maybe 2), my back doesnít get as sore, Iím able to ride in the drops for longer and I also notice that some of the power in my cycling cadence is being reinforced by accessory muscles.

Originally Posted by cyclezen
You can do it ! Yoga can be for everyone. There are good yoga programs for disabled, for mobility challenged seniors, for limber and lithe young- everyone.
The key is to find a good start class/program. One you can do 'in-person' and focused on beginners.
And instructors present a balanced series of poses, meant to equal effort to poses which provide a balanced session.
The benefits of yoga are not realized so much in the short term, as they are after some consistent, regular 'practice' over time.
I always recommend doing 'in-person' because an instructor can help tailor the 'practice' (name for a session) for what can work for you.
A Key is to not force thru yoga poses. Doing as much as possible, within a safe, comfortable zone (which can be different for everyone) is key.
Better to do them as they are shown, and not reach for a 'goal'. The real goal is overall improvement - Over Time.
If needed, an instructor will show modifications to 'poses', which allow similar effects as the std pose.
Best is to not be self-judgemental, do what you can - it's ok to be kind to yourself.
And maybe, between a weekly class/practice, take a few minutes on some days and do some poses on your own - ok to do the ones you like.
It's always a good time to start yoga. It reaches beyond the physical and will help you feel better about yourself, as well.
Give it good try!
Ride On
Yuri
EDIT: Many adult or evening schools offer good yoga programs, as well as gyms and other health facilities. I strongly recommend a beginners program.
Getting into a program for experienced participants can be discouraging, and not well suited to allow beginners to progress. It's OK to question suitability and start slow.
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Old 11-10-21, 06:27 PM
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I am going to try Yoga too. Several cyclists I know say it has really improved their flexibility.
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Old 11-10-21, 06:46 PM
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It was an eye opener when my doctor sent me to a physical therapist and he evaluated my flexibility. I thought phoey, I am a cyclist and I know I am flexibile.
One of the first flexibility tests he did involved my hamstrings. We cyclists have super flexibility in our hamstrings right ? I sat straight up on the floor and extended my legs so my legs were flat on the floor , had my feet pointing up at 90 degrees. He had me lean forward as far as I can and try to touch my toes. He measured the distance between my fingertips an my toes. I did poorly, not even close to toching my toes. Other flexibility tests had the same results. He recorded the results. I was spretty stiff as my doctor said. I was given a stretch routine to do at home and after 4 weeks I had another visit to the therapist. My flexibility was much improved. I could go way past touching my toes even ! I notice the increased flexibility in my daily activities. I am following a stretch routine after my rides he gave me. It works for me. The older we get the more inflexible we become, but we can do something about it.

Last edited by frogman; 11-10-21 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 11-11-21, 06:05 AM
  #49  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Well that's lucky since I don't do any stretching when warming up. I do stretching as a specific exercise to maintain/improve my flexibility, but never as a warm-up exercise. I sometimes do a few simple stretches at the end of a ride (quads especially). I warm-up on the bike by riding gently for the first 5-10 mins.
Right, one of the things that's become clear from the scientific study of stretching is that it doesn't "warm up" a muscle which used to be one of the main reasons trainers, etc. used to claim for it.

What you're doing is completely reasonable as marginally increasing flexibility appears to be the one thing that stretching actually does. People's maximum flexibility, however, is mostly determined by genetics, and it varies wildly from person to person. It's also not universally true that a marginal difference in flexibility is worth anything. Lots of excellent athletes are basically stiff. I'm by nature not very flexible and I get no noticeable benefit from stretching. I also don't find my inability to comfortably cross my legs (for example) is any serious detriment. I'm sure that varies a lot person to person by what they're doing, what they're used to, and their body's response to the actual stretching.
I just got accused of trolling because I don't believe that people should claim stretching prevents injury like I'm some sort of anti-stretching fanatic when all I'm really saying is I think stretching is, for most people, a matter of comfort and a decision that should be made individually.
Obviously, people who actually need flexibility for their activities, e.g., dancers, gymnasts, need to do a lot of stretching. Bicyclists probably vary like crazy in this regard.
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Old 11-11-21, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Right, one of the things that's become clear from the scientific study of stretching is that it doesn't "warm up" a muscle which used to be one of the main reasons trainers, etc. used to claim for it.

What you're doing is completely reasonable as marginally increasing flexibility appears to be the one thing that stretching actually does. People's maximum flexibility, however, is mostly determined by genetics, and it varies wildly from person to person. It's also not universally true that a marginal difference in flexibility is worth anything. Lots of excellent athletes are basically stiff. I'm by nature not very flexible and I get no noticeable benefit from stretching. I also don't find my inability to comfortably cross my legs (for example) is any serious detriment. I'm sure that varies a lot person to person by what they're doing, what they're used to, and their body's response to the actual stretching.
I just got accused of trolling because I don't believe that people should claim stretching prevents injury like I'm some sort of anti-stretching fanatic when all I'm really saying is I think stretching is, for most people, a matter of comfort and a decision that should be made individually.
Obviously, people who actually need flexibility for their activities, e.g., dancers, gymnasts, need to do a lot of stretching. Bicyclists probably vary like crazy in this regard.
Yeah I'm not naturally very flexible either. Could never touch my toes with straight legs even in primary school. But what I try to do is maintain the flexibility I was born with. I find that my daily routine doesn't put all of my joints through their full natural range of motion, so stretching exercises (I'm not sure stretching is the right word really for me, it's more moving my joints to their comfortable limits) maintains those limits and helps to identify any potential problems or imbalances.
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