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How many gears is too many?

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How many gears is too many?

Old 11-13-21, 02:04 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
That's a, uh, interesting first post.
Glaringly obviously what is afoot.
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Old 11-13-21, 02:07 PM
  #52  
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“You can never be too rich, too thin or have too many gears.”—Joan Rivers
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Old 11-13-21, 02:39 PM
  #53  
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"Too many gears" would be more gears in front or in back than your derailleur could shift into.
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Old 11-13-21, 03:21 PM
  #54  
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One of the most annoying features of threads like this is the premise that things are only changing because of marketing. As if we had reached some kind of engineering perfection 20 or 30 years ago. Well it ain't true.
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Old 11-13-21, 03:38 PM
  #55  
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For road I find 2x11 to be great, but I can imagine I will like 2x12 even better.

​​​​​As for snapping chains, chains wearing faster and the like, none of that is true. 11 speed chains are much better than whatever old stuff people used in the ancient times. Snapped chains - I don't remember when I've last seen one.

Offroad maybe 1x13 would be nice or 2x12... hard to decide 🤷 My gravel bike has 3x10 which is perfectly adequate but it is what I had around, wouldn't quite spec it for the purpose.
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Old 11-13-21, 04:09 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
One of the most annoying features of threads like this is the premise that things are only changing because of marketing. As if we had reached some kind of engineering perfection 20 or 30 years ago. Well it ain't true.
I fully support technological advances and engineers trying to constantly improve products....however I also believe that there is way too much marketing BS promoting things which people don't really need,...I don't care about following the latest trends, what I value most is simplicity, reliability and practicality more than anything else
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Old 11-13-21, 04:13 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
"Too many gears" would be more gears in front or in back than your derailleur could shift into.
Just imagine having a single chainring up front and a 25 cog cassette in the rear.
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Old 11-13-21, 04:24 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
...what I value most is simplicity, reliability and practicality more than anything else
Well then it's a good thing that all of these qualities are universal and absolute and not at all subject to an individual's needs, preferences and experiences.
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Old 11-13-21, 05:32 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I fully support technological advances and engineers trying to constantly improve products....however I also believe that there is way too much marketing BS promoting things which people don't really need,...I don't care about following the latest trends, what I value most is simplicity, reliability and practicality more than anything else
There has always been loads of marketing BS. It's not a new thing. But that doesn't mean the engineering doesn't improve over time. Trends in bike gearing have consistently been moving toward less front chainrings and more rear cassette sprockets for the last few decades. It's actually been a painfully slow advance as the bike industry is very conservative. It's a market that generally doesn't like change, especially on the road bike side.
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Old 11-13-21, 05:42 PM
  #60  
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Didn't we just discuss this in the"no pennies" thread?
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Old 11-13-21, 05:51 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Didn't we just discuss this in the"no pennies" thread?
I believe just recently we had 2 or 3 threads about the " proper gears " one of them threads ran for 24 pages.
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Old 11-13-21, 06:13 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by armille1 View Post
So how does this play out? Bike industry keeps adding gears until what happens?
The bike industry is small and does not pay well at any level. So the little real innovation that does occur is limited to the few who have the resources to rent out wind tunnels, pay for destructive testing, and hire engineers who can run computer models. Much of the so-called innovation in the bike industry is arm waving and blowing smoke. For example: the useless proliferation of cassette cogs, at about 1 additional gear every 7 years.

Adding more cogs to the cassette is relatively harmless as bike innovations go; it just means smaller jumps between the gears, until the rider finds themselves double-shifting to get to the right cadence. But the real damage is due to the progressive widening of the cassette, which means more wheel dish, a wider Q-factor and that perfectly fine older frames and components must be abandoned due to being 'obsolete'.

If you've ever ridden a track frame with a 110mm stay spacing, and a narrow-Q crankset - it is a revelation. But as we add more cogs, the rear stay spacing widens - now we're at 142mm for road bikes, and the crank Q-factor has to follow. Result: new bikes ride like being on a horse.
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Old 11-13-21, 07:28 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Just imagine having a single chainring up front and a 25 cog cassette in the rear.
sounds fun to me! build it and the chain out of unobtanium to make them half the current width but twice the current strength at the same weight, with the ability to rotate around a vertical axis through the crank/axle for a constantly perfect chainline. 50t up front and 10-60t in the back in 2t steps. electronic shifting with blips for shifts of 1, 2, or 5 gears at a time.
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Old 11-13-21, 07:38 PM
  #64  
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Sorry, Dave Mayer but .... No.

Wheels are plenty strong. In fact wheels are lighter and stronger than ever. The stuff about "excessive dish" and all that .... yeah, maybe in theory, but I ride concrete, not conceptual, wheels, and they hold up just fine.

In fact, even though I am an ultra-clyde, I ride low-spoke-count wheels ... . without problem. So all this "wheels are weaker" crap is .... crap.

As for "perfectly fine older frames and components must be abandoned due to being 'obsolete' .... " yeah, that is absolutely the first thing people making NEW products should consider.

fact is .... sorry to bring the facts and all .... WHEELS HAVE BEEN 135 MM SINCE THE MID '90s.

So, yeah ... if by "perfectly fine older frames" you are talking about serious vintage gear from THIRTY years ago ... seriously, what kind of Luddite expects Zero advances in Thirty Years?

And even for all your empty raging ... I run a 126-mm, 27-inch wheel on my 1983 Cannondale. So maybe all this hand-wringing about how you cannot find parts for your 1949 Simplex .... is too specific to hold up a whole industry.

Even more to the point, I can still find old parts for bikes .... or I can upgrade using new parts which do the job even better.

You are basically complaining because nobody makes new OEM parts for your 1909 Model T .... maybe you don't understand the realities of doing business ... but if you really think there is a big market for '70s-era bike parts, go into business and get rich. Good luck.

Also .... there is quite a large older population on this site. A lot of us have experience with the stuff you are talking about .... we grew up on single-speeds with Ashtabula cranks, three-speed Sturmey Archer stuff, 120- and 126-mm Schwinns .... the original "10-speeds" which seemed so incredibly advanced in the late '60s and early '70s.

Now, fifty years later, we are all doing fine on modern bikes. Going back to the old stuff isn't revelatory .... it is nostalgic, as in, we forget the downsides and only think of the good parts of our lives when we owned those bikes.

Manufacturers aren't adding more gears to make more money. They added more gears because the added ratios improved riding for most riders. True, they added one cog per season or two to get people to keep buying the "latest greatest," but caveat emptor. If you fall for the hype, don't blame the people who fooled the fool, right? Raise your game.

Fact is, having more useful ratios more readily available is a bonus for people who ride smart enough to use the tools at their disposal.

And NEWSFLASH!!! If you want to you can buy almost any frame and build it as a single speed. You can have whatever dimensions you want. You don't need to run a double or a triple, or any rear cogs. You have that freedom.

You want everyone to want what you want, and what you really want to be a kid again.

Good luck with all that.
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Old 11-13-21, 08:47 PM
  #65  
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if the cassette is divisible by seven to equal a whole number not equal to one nor exceed three over the divided number, then that would be satisfactory for my calculated rides. Wouldn't need a 2x+ crank.
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Old 11-13-21, 09:33 PM
  #66  
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The answer is 42.
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Old 11-14-21, 01:11 AM
  #67  
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3 speed, 8,9,10 speed hub.

This has a Shimano 8,9,10 speed freehub body. Which we all know also fits an 11 speed mountain cassette. So...3x11=33 speeds. Combine that with a triple crankset, 33x3=99.

99 gears. That's the logical conclusion. Sheldon's Browns 63 speed was only one small step for man.


Then, of course there is the The 5x5 work of a true genius...It's only a matter of time until the bike industry does what must be done.
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Old 11-14-21, 07:47 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
3 speed, 8,9,10 speed hub.

This has a Shimano 8,9,10 speed freehub body. Which we all know also fits an 11 speed mountain cassette. So...3x11=33 speeds. Combine that with a triple crankset, 33x3=99.
If this were available with some type of QR mechanism, I'd grab one today and start building up Frankenbike! A nice, tight cassette with short cage derailleur for when I ride in the Lowcountry (where it's practically flat), and still have the ability to tackle the climbs here in the Upstate (where it definitely isn't!)
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Old 11-14-21, 08:20 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by dave mayer View Post
the bike industry is small and does not pay well at any level. So the little real innovation that does occur is limited to the few who have the resources to rent out wind tunnels, pay for destructive testing, and hire engineers who can run computer models. Much of the so-called innovation in the bike industry is arm waving and blowing smoke. For example: The useless proliferation of cassette cogs, at about 1 additional gear every 7 years.

Adding more cogs to the cassette is relatively harmless as bike innovations go; it just means smaller jumps between the gears, until the rider finds themselves double-shifting to get to the right cadence. but the real damage is due to the progressive widening of the cassette, which means more wheel dish, a wider q-factor and that perfectly fine older frames and components must be abandoned due to being 'obsolete'.

If you've ever ridden a track frame with a 110mm stay spacing, and a narrow-q crankset - it is a revelation. But as we add more cogs, the rear stay spacing widens - now we're at 142mm for road bikes, and the crank q-factor has to follow. Result: New bikes ride like being on a horse.
lol
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Old 11-14-21, 08:25 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I ride concrete... wheels, and they hold up just fine.

That'd be the Flintstone Rims, right?

Sorry, but we all know that bicycle technology was perfected by 1996, and that everything introduced since then has been step by step progress towards the completely nonfunctional bicycle. As everyone must acknowledge, the world revolves around my preferences, right? 2x8, 53t big chain ring. Everything else is heresy.

I look forward to someone thinking I'm serious.
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Old 11-14-21, 08:29 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That'd be the Flintstone Rims, right?
Yabba Dabba Do!
I vote for single speed drivelines, preferably on the left side.

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Old 11-14-21, 08:35 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That'd be the Flintstone Rims, right?

Sorry, but we all know that bicycle technology was perfected by 1996, and that everything introduced since then has been step by step progress towards the completely nonfunctional bicycle. As everyone must acknowledge, the world revolves around my preferences, right? 2x8, 53t big chain ring. Everything else is heresy.

I look forward to someone thinking I'm serious.
Exactly. I've lost count of the number of people here who think bike tech ended in whatever their favourite year was and seem offended that the world kept on revolving.
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Old 11-14-21, 08:46 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Exactly. I've lost count of the number of people here who think bike tech ended in whatever their favourite year was and seem offended that the world kept on revolving.
the combination of misplaced nostalgia and feeling ignored/powerless (which is also a cause of the former) is a strong force these days.
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Old 11-14-21, 08:52 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Exactly. I've lost count of the number of people here who think bike tech ended in whatever their favourite year was and seem offended that the world kept on revolving.

What's really funny about this is that bicycles are probably the best product for buying a working model from whatever year that happened to be. Try buying a working Windows 95 computer if you really thought that era was great.
I don't have much use for a lot of the post-90s evolution, but I'm not having any trouble keeping my bikes going and I think it's great that more people get a gearing range, etc. that better suits them. If it gets to the point where they stop making the parts I need, I'll be sad, but that seems to be a generation or two away at this point.
​​​​​​
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Old 11-14-21, 08:55 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Falling over and not being able to stay upright at very low speeds is just lack of skill.....That's why I like mountain biking. It will develop skills which is not possible to develop with road riding alone.
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Putting medical issues aside....Balance is a skill which can be developed through training.
So, like, track stands? Things that road and track cyclists have been doing for a while now?

Last edited by nel e nel; 11-14-21 at 08:58 AM.
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