Another Ti Question Thread
 

TL;DR: Any feedback for titanium ride when compared to their steel/aluminum/carbon equivalent?

Over the years, I've tried aluminum, carbon, and steel, but haven't had the chance to ride Ti before. Nor do I see an opportunity to test ride one anytime soon. Nobody I know owns one and the bike shops near me don't carry any.

The engineer in me tells me that any material can ride similarly, depending on the frame weight, tubing diameter, tire size, tire pressure, and other components on the bike.

However, my real life experiences in test rides and friends' bikes differ a bit. I'm sure it's confirmation bias, but most aluminum bikes were stiff and had a harsher road buzz, carbon bikes were very stiff, but it deadened the road buzz a lot, and steel bikes have been at either extremes of stiffness, and generally less buzzy than aluminum, but buzzier than carbon.

I'm sure the ride characteristics of each frame material is largely based on consumer demand: people want carbon bikes to be stiff at the BB, steel bikes to be compliant, aluminum to feel somewhere in between, and Titanium to feel a certain way.

Ride feel, to me, is largely about the road buzz and the way the vibration from the road gets transmitted to the rider. Most of my test rides were on road bikes with 700x25mm road tires, on 54cm-ish frames. Most with aluminum seat post and aluminum stem/bars.

The things I've read online about Titanium bikes are the cliché (which is the same case with Steel, Aluminum, and Carbon):On the other hand, I've also read:I'm leaning towards the arguments against ti, but I do like the idea of corrosion resistance and not worrying about paint chips or scratches.

Would somebody who has ridden Ti bikes be able to comment in more specific detail?

The best type of input would be comparison between equivalent bikes: production titanium endurance road bike vs production steel/alu/carbon endurance road bike with same or similar components, similar fit, geometry, etc.

______________________________________________
Unrelated to my question above:

What I'm considering is a bike between my Ritchey Road Logic and my Breadwinner B-Road. I do my "fast" rides on my Ritchey Logic Disc with 28mm tires, longer/relaxed road rides with the Breadwinner(endurance geo w/ 38mm tires), and short rides with family/friends on the VO Neutrino(Mini Velo w/ swept back bars).

I have toe overlap with 700x38mm on the Breadwinner and I want to run 42mm semi knobby tires without worrying about toe overlap. I've never fallen from toe overlap, but I do have some annoyances at stop lights with my Soma Smoothie's toe overlap at times. I'm aware that toe overlap is a problem that I can avoid with riding technique, but after riding my Neutrino for the last year, I realized that I love not having any toe overlap to worry about in the first place.

I'm 5'9", 158lbs give or take 5 lbs depending on the time of the year. I don't put out much power, don't race, ride 99% on semi-crappy roads, mostly ride alone at the pace I want to go at. Sometimes, that's 12mph average, other times, that's 18mph average.

The bikes I've tried over the years:
- Aluminum- Carbon- Steel- MagnesiumBelow is the Geo I'm thinking of:
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f203148e63.jpg
I don't plan on getting this bike anytime soon, just wondering what other people here think. Probably sometime around 2023 or 2024.

Also, paying my bike pic taxes...
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d66c32d534.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7fd63434dc.jpg

Happy Holidays!

The ti frame you have shown the blueprint for reminds me of the Wittson Illuminati disc frame:

Wittson Illuminati seems like a disc road race bike with 73°ish headtube angle and clearance for 700x28mm. It doesn't list front center, fork length, nor rake, so I can't figure out the front center, but likely not what I'm looking for since the tag line is: "Stiffest road race disc frame ever built ... If you're searching for a racing disc machine and rigidity is top of your list, this is your choice".

Would you happen to have any experience with it?

https://wittson.com/handmade-titaniu...set-illuminati

this is terrible but while I have possession of said ti disc (size M/L) frame, the build is not done - so I haven’t ridden it yet - arghh

I do ride a rim brake ti bike though - a Veritas:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b944ca867.jpeg
I could talk quite a bit about the ride of the Veritas and the compact frame which for me I call a super-compact.

Please do talk about the ride qualities of the Veritas!
- Do you have any experience with other compact frames of different materials? If so, how does the frame material compare?
- Were they of similar build(components, tires, bars, seatpost, etc.)
- Were they built for similar purposes?
- What's different about the titanium frame?

This is pure navel gazing.

I absolutely agree; I'm bored, curious, and I have nothing else better to do. I know it doesn't really matter if titanium feels better than steel or carbon. I'm still going to ride bikes.

But isn't this kind of the whole point of forums though? Discussing somewhat useless topics with people who are as intensely absorbed in the same things as you are, because it's interesting? Otherwise, why are we here discussing things that don't really matter anyway?:foo:

You lost me at worrying about paint chips :rolleyes:

titanium is great - reasonably light, low maintenance, looks great (if you get a brushed frame), and can be a “forever bike” as long as compatible parts remain available and you don’t get bored with it (forever is a long time to be riding one bike :)). However, (i) the corrosion resistance is overblown - unless you live by the ocean, you’d have to seriously neglect your painted steel frame for rust to be an issue, and (ii) geometry and tires will have a significantly larger effect on ride quality and comfort than frame material. Not trying to put you off Ti - I’ve ridden one for 16 years and it’s awesome, but if a nice steel frame of similar weight and geometry showed up, I’d be just as happy - Ti is very good, but it’s not “magical”

Whatever you get, make the TT longer and the stem shorter. Only easy way to rid some toe overlap.

And here is a photo of the unfinished Wittson. It is going to be revelatory for sure….

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d89c65e56.jpeg

All sorts of things I want to put down in words here, but will keep it simple. Straight gauge Ti rides like top quality steel. Butted Ti rides similar, but tricks the mind into knowing it is better and faster and smoother because the brain knows it is butted tubing. Tires. air pressure in the tires, and fork will have a greater effect on the ride than the frame material.

You are going to have a long and torturous winter, poor thing.

As many bikes as you've owned, just buy one used and give it a shot.

https://i.imgur.com/NjWbTaR.jpg?1

When I ordered my Lynskey I asked which rode most like steel but weighed less. They said the straight gauge frame, which turned out to be lighter than the butted frames they offered at the time. It's comfortable but definitely not stiff and wouldn't suit everyone.

No. It is not the whole point.

I have 1 Ti, 2 Al ( 1 for hauling & a Vitus rider) and only 1 carbon left out of my 18, the rest are steel and ride them all. I have one decline in my favorite ride that the last crew seal coating the asphalt did damage with a sweeper to the bike lane with very noticeable swirl marks that deliver a nasty rumble all the way down that I dislike. The majority of steel and the Ti equally handle this well. I fiddle a lot with saddles, posts, bars, stems, most have 28s, a couple 25s when the 28s were less than 4mm from the frame or FD clamp.

In your shoes, I'd be looking at the T-Labs X3. Interesting tubing shapes for Ti etc
T-LAB X3 GRAVEL

Your characterization of frame materials is flawed from the get-go. Back in the day, "everybody knew" that aluminum frames were flexy because frames like Alan and Vitus were aluminum and were flexy. Then Klein and Cannondale came out with "huge" (for the time) frame tubes and all of a sudden "everybody knew" that Al frames were uncomfortably stiff. Early CF frames were noodles too. Until Litespeed brought shaped tubing to the party, Ti frames were "known" to be flexy. Each frame material can be tailored to a given ride characteristic with the only difference being the final frame weight.

Though to be fair, the OP is supposedly basing his impressions of non-Ti bikes having ridden 15 different bikes of varying frame materials, none of which include Ti though.

Happy Holidays!

I think you should just go for it and satisfy the itch for yourself.

I have 7 older bikes, 3 steel and 4 ti. My newest is a 2003, and my oldest is a 1987, 5 road bikes, and 2 cyclocross set up as all-road/gravel. While they all have their own particular personalities, I would say that the differences are due to minor variations in geometry and wheelsets, and tire sizes. Titanium is indeed very similar in ride to steel. Since I ride all of them in a rotation, I can personally feel the subtle differences including the very, very subtle difference in how titanium handles the same roads that I ride all the time (not counting the differences in handling due to geometry differences).

There are other reasons to want a ti bike, such as: beauty of a bare metal frame in different finishes (in the eye of the beholder, of course), the toughness and lightness of the material, and of course the excellence of whoever designed and built the particular frame.

I have never owned carbon or aluminum bikes, so I can't offer any opinions about those materials.

My latest build: 2000 Litespeed Appalachian

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f394499b_b.jpgoriginal_98afd5c9-fde0-491c-a7ed-f6cd76e585e4_IMG_20210416_173811197 by warren t., on Flickr

I have two nice ti rides - an IF Crown Jewel Ti and a Serotta Legend Ti, as well as a couple more steel Crown Jewels. My take on steel vs. ti:

If I'm riding on roads with exposed aggregate, the steel bikes transmit a rumble. The ti bikes have more of a buzz, like the rumble frequency was shifted up and to a less offensive spectrum.

If the road is smooth, the ti bikes have more of the "floating on glass" feeling than the steel bikes. There's nothing wrong with the steel bikes on those surfaces, though.

I've gotten to the point where I'm now selling all my steel road bikes and just keeping the ti. Don't need the rumble anymore.

I'll be able to comment at some point after Tuesday, when UPS sez my new 1995 Litespeed Ultimate will arrive. I am not handling the whole "waiting patiently" thing very well, honestly.

Well, I'd like to think each topic worth discussing is actually based in objective reality, but this particular topic mostly isn't.

My Litespeed is a "Team" frame that has the geometry of the Classic, but with bigger tubes -- IT rides as stiff as an OS steel bike. Being a "Team" , it was not built for comfort or to have a magic carpet ride im guessing. That said, - its not bad at all. I'd expect other designs , like the early Litespeed Ultimates and similar are probably similar. However, Merlins and other Litespeeds (The Appalachian pictured in this thread for instance ) look to have different tubing specs and likely would give that lively ride Ti is well known for

https://i.imgur.com/aDnSbLA.jpg?1

Beautiful !