Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Riding deliberately underpowered?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Riding deliberately underpowered?

Old 01-03-22, 10:50 AM
  #26  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,507
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3228 Post(s)
Liked 2,505 Times in 1,509 Posts
If you feel you must solicit advice from the board, you would be better off asking your question in this forum. It would be more helpful to your specific goals.

https://www.bikeforums.net/long-dist...rance-cycling/

Last edited by seypat; 01-03-22 at 01:31 PM.
seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 01-03-22, 12:22 PM
  #27  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,204

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10139 Post(s)
Liked 5,829 Times in 3,138 Posts
Originally Posted by Tomm Willians
No I have type 2 and I already talk to my Dr about this, Im seeking additional input that may prove useful. As previously mentioned, Im already doing centuries so clearly Im not clueless how this works, just investigating different angles.
Whew! Good luck.
MoAlpha is online now  
Old 01-03-22, 02:19 PM
  #28  
Full Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 459
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked 133 Times in 100 Posts
there is no reason to haul ass unless you are getting paid for it or you are on a huge ego trip due to low self esteem or you suffer from narcissistic disorder.

or unless you are a masochist like me.
cjenrick is offline  
Old 01-03-22, 03:30 PM
  #29  
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by Tomm Willians
No I have type 2 and I already talk to my Dr about this, Im seeking additional input that may prove useful. As previously mentioned, Im already doing centuries so clearly Im not clueless how this works, just investigating different angles.

TBH, the number of people who have experience with a 24 hr 300 mi ride is going to be so small that it's going to be hard to find them on anything but the endurance forum and, I have to think, this is such an outlier activity that people probably have to come up with individual strategies that wouldn't likely apply to anyone else. I've done a lot of 150+ mile rides in a day, and I don't think there's any way I could have done that without a couple of sit down meals along the way. I'm pretty sure most people would get sick eating the large quantities and types of food I would eat, so the only tip I have is to try a few strategies on somewhat shorter but still long rides and see what works.

Good luck! I ride several dozen solo centuries a year, and even so, that distance/duration sounds nuts, but I admire a bit of crazy. I won't be joining you but, then again, I wasn't invited. I think we're both good in that regard.

In my own case, I would think the sleep deprivation in a 24 hour ride would be the bigger risk--I don't make good decisions when I start to get punchy. I used to think I could ride on very little sleep, but then I got hit by a car doing something I couldn't remember or explain afterwards. I strongly suspect I actually fell asleep for a second or two while pedaling, something I didn't think was possible. I don't do the 5 a.m. ride starts any more.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 01-03-22, 03:40 PM
  #30  
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by Tomm Willians
It appears that some more info on my behalf would be helpful, thanks for the input so far. The longer ride Im referring to is I want to attempt a 24hr with the hope of hitting 300 miles.
More curiosity--solo or group? Have you picked a route yet? Are you just doing "laps" or do you have a destination in mind?
livedarklions is offline  
Old 01-03-22, 04:21 PM
  #31  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Tomm Willians's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Nevada County, California
Posts: 786

Bikes: Subject to change at any given moment but currently is...... Colnago Mapei, Colnago C40, Wilier Triestina Carbon, Wilier Triestina Ramato, Follis 472, Peugeot PX60, Razesa, Orbea Terra, Soma Pescadero and 1/2 owner of a Santana tandem.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 330 Post(s)
Liked 778 Times in 262 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
More curiosity--solo or group? Have you picked a route yet? Are you just doing "laps" or do you have a destination in mind?
Im going solo on this on a 25 mile loop with the wife parked at a designated location with supplies. Ive found a route I believe will be near ideal.
Tomm Willians is offline  
Likes For Tomm Willians:
Old 01-03-22, 04:37 PM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,986
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2692 Post(s)
Liked 482 Times in 348 Posts
I would imagine that you have to do a pretty strict diet to be able to switch from burning glycogen to ketosis without suffering a major power loss. Is it even possible? Do people try doing this? It seems like it would make you "bonk proof" and be a great fat burner...
LarrySellerz is offline  
Old 01-03-22, 05:46 PM
  #33  
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by Tomm Willians
Im going solo on this on a 25 mile loop with the wife parked at a designated location with supplies. Ive found a route I believe will be near ideal.

Yes, it seems like everyone who does some version of this does a lap system, usually fairly tight loops around their home to facilitate pit stops. Do you have a camper or a tent for your wife? That's an awfully long time to stay "parked."


12 laps in 24 hours, at least the math will be easy.
In your neck of the woods, I imagine there's some really nice places for her to hang out overnight, but still, she must love you a lot!
livedarklions is offline  
Old 01-03-22, 06:50 PM
  #34  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Tomm Willians's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Nevada County, California
Posts: 786

Bikes: Subject to change at any given moment but currently is...... Colnago Mapei, Colnago C40, Wilier Triestina Carbon, Wilier Triestina Ramato, Follis 472, Peugeot PX60, Razesa, Orbea Terra, Soma Pescadero and 1/2 owner of a Santana tandem.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 330 Post(s)
Liked 778 Times in 262 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Yes, it seems like everyone who does some version of this does a lap system, usually fairly tight loops around their home to facilitate pit stops. Do you have a camper or a tent for your wife? That's an awfully long time to stay "parked."


12 laps in 24 hours, at least the math will be easy.
In your neck of the woods, I imagine there's some really nice places for her to hang out overnight, but still, she must love you a lot!

🤣🤣🤣 yes I suppose she does ! I have a 4 door truck with a very roomy back seat area so shes going to stretch out in a sleeping bag and snooze. She will be very close to 24hr gas stations and such for coffee or goodies. I probably wont even need to wake her as I can put supplies in the bed area.
Tomm Willians is offline  
Likes For Tomm Willians:
Old 01-04-22, 09:22 AM
  #35  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 626 Times in 349 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
I got used to riding 100 miles without eating during the worst of the COVID lockdown, in my experience it's very doable with practice, but ymmv, literally.
Then you must have been riding at a VERY slow pace. There is no way you have enough food in your gut plus stored glycogen to go 100 miles at a decent pace. You have, at most, 2000 calories available beyond fat burning. For 100 miles, that is only 20 calories per mile. The rest must come from fat burning, which most sources say is around 200 calories per hour. Being generous on your fat burn rate and using reliable estimators for calorie burn (analyticcycling.com) we can see that 13-14 mph would be your average speed on flat roads with no wind.
KerryIrons is offline  
Old 01-04-22, 10:06 AM
  #36  
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by KerryIrons
Then you must have been riding at a VERY slow pace. There is no way you have enough food in your gut plus stored glycogen to go 100 miles at a decent pace. You have, at most, 2000 calories available beyond fat burning. For 100 miles, that is only 20 calories per mile. The rest must come from fat burning, which most sources say is around 200 calories per hour. Being generous on your fat burn rate and using reliable estimators for calorie burn (analyticcycling.com) we can see that 13-14 mph would be your average speed on flat roads with no wind.
Uh, ok, I had no idea what I was doing was impossible. Generally, the non-stop 100 mile ride under those conditions was about 6 to 6.5 hours, not lightning fast, but that was with hills, some city riding, bad roads and stop signs, etc. that bring the average speed way down On the flats with no wind, I generally ride in the 20-24 mph range at the beginning, middle and end of the ride. Guess I should have checked with you first?

I love it when people extrapolate from the little knowledge they have and come up with stuff so obviously wrong. I have no idea what I'm burning when, I just know your "must" statements are ridiculous. 13-14 mph on the flats with no wind, my butt.

Yeah, yeah, I know you'll claim I'm lying, but seriously if I was going to make something up, don't you think it'd be a bit sexier than I can ride this fast while fasting?
livedarklions is offline  
Old 01-04-22, 10:19 AM
  #37  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,507
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3228 Post(s)
Liked 2,505 Times in 1,509 Posts
I run a fall marathon or 2 each year. During training, the run lengths will increase until the distance/time gets into the bonking zone. The training runs finish where they start. You can go until you bonk and you will be close to the finish. The bonk comes and you find out where you need to start the refueling for that year's race. Easy enough to figure out.
seypat is offline  
Old 01-04-22, 10:20 AM
  #38  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,676 Times in 2,503 Posts
There is some evidence that chronically riding without eating can lead to muscle wasting. Not a particularly great idea. I might try to find the reference later.
unterhausen is offline  
Likes For unterhausen:
Old 01-04-22, 10:22 AM
  #39  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 969
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 626 Times in 349 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Uh, ok, I had no idea what I was doing was impossible. Generally, the non-stop 100 mile ride under those conditions was about 6 to 6.5 hours, not lightning fast, but that was with hills, some city riding, bad roads and stop signs, etc. that bring the average speed way down On the flats with no wind, I generally ride in the 20-24 mph range at the beginning, middle and end of the ride. Guess I should have checked with you first?

I love it when people extrapolate from the little knowledge they have and come up with stuff so obviously wrong. I have no idea what I'm burning when, I just know your "must" statements are ridiculous. 13-14 mph on the flats with no wind, my butt.

Yeah, yeah, I know you'll claim I'm lying, but seriously if I was going to make something up, don't you think it'd be a bit sexier than I can ride this fast while fasting?
I'm just going on the published literature for caloric expenditure, stored glycogen, and fat burning. Your average speed of 15+ mph suggests a calorie burn of around 350 calories per hour, but your reported speed of 20 mph suggests around 650 calories per hour. And to be clear you are saying you took in zero calories during these 100 mile rides, right? Unless you are WAY outside the range of normal human exercise physiology, the numbers do not add up.

Last edited by KerryIrons; 01-04-22 at 10:31 AM.
KerryIrons is offline  
Old 01-04-22, 10:34 AM
  #40  
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,626

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3869 Post(s)
Liked 2,561 Times in 1,575 Posts
Originally Posted by noimagination
Lewis Carroll, is that you?
My mind went to Gilbert and Sullivan.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is online now  
Old 01-04-22, 11:27 AM
  #41  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,204

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10139 Post(s)
Liked 5,829 Times in 3,138 Posts
Originally Posted by KerryIrons
Then you must have been riding at a VERY slow pace. There is no way you have enough food in your gut plus stored glycogen to go 100 miles at a decent pace. You have, at most, 2000 calories available beyond fat burning. For 100 miles, that is only 20 calories per mile. The rest must come from fat burning, which most sources say is around 200 calories per hour. Being generous on your fat burn rate and using reliable estimators for calorie burn (analyticcycling.com) we can see that 13-14 mph would be your average speed on flat roads with no wind.
Originally Posted by unterhausen
There is some evidence that chronically riding without eating can lead to muscle wasting. Not a particularly great idea. I might try to find the reference later.
The web site cited has a bad cert, so not going there. However, the missing piece here may be gluconeogenesis, which scavenges amino acids from protein, glycerol from fat, and lactate from anaerobic metabolism, and coverts them to glucose. This is in addition to ketogenesis from fat and does, in fact, cannibalize structural proteins in anyone who rides a lot (my arms are exhibit A). Without this mechanism, we would all collapse with seizures and brain damage from hypoglycemia as soon as the glycogen ran out. All of these mechanisms are highly inducible by endurance training, so data from "normal" individuals don't count for much.

In any case, the 13-14 mph thing for fasted riders is contrary to common experience, even though one does go faster on long rides with a ready source of carbs.

Last edited by MoAlpha; 01-04-22 at 11:30 AM.
MoAlpha is online now  
Likes For MoAlpha:
Old 01-04-22, 11:40 AM
  #42  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,986
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2692 Post(s)
Liked 482 Times in 348 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha
The web site cited has a bad cert, so not going there. However, the missing piece here may be gluconeogenesis, which scavenges amino acids from protein, glycerol from fat, and lactate from anaerobic metabolism, and coverts them to glucose. This is in addition to ketogenesis from fat and does, in fact, cannibalize structural proteins in anyone who rides a lot (my arms are exhibit A). Without this mechanism, we would all collapse with seizures and brain damage from hypoglycemia as soon as the glycogen ran out. All of these mechanisms are highly inducible by endurance training, so data from "normal" individuals don't count for much.

In any case, the 13-14 mph thing for fasted riders is contrary to common experience, even though one does go faster on long rides with a ready source of carbs.
i would imagine doing a strict keto diet atleast part time would reduce muscle loss when you have to use the alternative pathways. Like more ketogenesis instead of gluconeogenesis. I've watched a joe rogan podcast where the guy was talking about "hacking his body" with his diet to be able to burn fat and carbs very efficiently. Like he would do x days keto, 48-72 hour fast, then x days high carb low fat. Idk his actual regiment but it seems something cyclists could benefit from.

Of course just slamming carbs so you don't run out of glycogen is probably more efficient/faster. That's what all the pros do
LarrySellerz is offline  
Old 01-04-22, 12:15 PM
  #43  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,204

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10139 Post(s)
Liked 5,829 Times in 3,138 Posts
Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
i would imagine doing a strict keto diet atleast part time would reduce muscle loss when you have to use the alternative pathways. Like more ketogenesis instead of gluconeogenesis. I've watched a joe rogan podcast where the guy was talking about "hacking his body" with his diet to be able to burn fat and carbs very efficiently. Like he would do x days keto, 48-72 hour fast, then x days high carb low fat. Idk his actual regiment but it seems something cyclists could benefit from.

Of course just slamming carbs so you don't run out of glycogen is probably more efficient/faster. That's what all the pros do
As far as I know, you can't train up the ketogenesis pathway without simultaneously upregulating gluconeogenesis, since carb starvation is the stimulus for both. The brain has an absolute floor requirement of about 30% glucose in its energy mix.
MoAlpha is online now  
Old 01-04-22, 12:17 PM
  #44  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,346
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4378 Post(s)
Liked 4,802 Times in 2,968 Posts
Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
i would imagine doing a strict keto diet atleast part time would reduce muscle loss when you have to use the alternative pathways. Like more ketogenesis instead of gluconeogenesis. I've watched a joe rogan podcast where the guy was talking about "hacking his body" with his diet to be able to burn fat and carbs very efficiently. Like he would do x days keto, 48-72 hour fast, then x days high carb low fat. Idk his actual regiment but it seems something cyclists could benefit from.

Of course just slamming carbs so you don't run out of glycogen is probably more efficient/faster. That's what all the pros do
I believe there was a recent study of elite athletes who attempted something similar to this i.e. keto training regime and then slamming in the carbs on event day. From what I recall it didn't work out too well. They just ended up being less efficient at using the carbs and went slower. But I could be wrong as I didn't read it in any detail.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 01-04-22, 12:38 PM
  #45  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,204

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10139 Post(s)
Liked 5,829 Times in 3,138 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
I believe there was a recent study of elite athletes who attempted something similar to this i.e. keto training regime and then slamming in the carbs on event day. From what I recall it didn't work out too well. They just ended up being less efficient at using the carbs and went slower. But I could be wrong as I didn't read it in any detail.
I was far from elite, but carbo loading was big when I was running and cycling competitively. Never seemed to help much.
MoAlpha is online now  
Old 01-04-22, 02:34 PM
  #46  
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,626

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3869 Post(s)
Liked 2,561 Times in 1,575 Posts
Originally Posted by LarrySellerz
i would imagine doing a strict keto diet atleast part time would reduce muscle loss when you have to use the alternative pathways. Like more ketogenesis instead of gluconeogenesis. I've watched a joe rogan podcast where the guy was talking about "hacking his body" with his diet to be able to burn fat and carbs very efficiently. Like he would do x days keto, 48-72 hour fast, then x days high carb low fat. Idk his actual regiment but it seems something cyclists could benefit from.
Was he a bodybuilder? That sounds sort of like some diets used for "cutting."
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is online now  
Old 01-05-22, 11:17 AM
  #47  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,346
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4378 Post(s)
Liked 4,802 Times in 2,968 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha
I was far from elite, but carbo loading was big when I was running and cycling competitively. Never seemed to help much.
This wasn't really traditional carb loading. It was more about training exclusively without carbs and then only using them on race events. The idea being that they would get more efficient fat burning + the benefit of carbs during events. But it didn't work in practice.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 01-05-22, 11:54 AM
  #48  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,204

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10139 Post(s)
Liked 5,829 Times in 3,138 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski
This wasn't really traditional carb loading. It was more about training exclusively without carbs and then only using them on race events. The idea being that they would get more efficient fat burning + the benefit of carbs during events. But it didn't work in practice.
I'm pretty sure carbo loading, even back then, was supposed to be done after a few weeks of carb deprivation. That was the part no one liked, so it wasn't talked about that much.
MoAlpha is online now  
Old 01-05-22, 12:02 PM
  #49  
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by KerryIrons
I'm just going on the published literature for caloric expenditure, stored glycogen, and fat burning. Your average speed of 15+ mph suggests a calorie burn of around 350 calories per hour, but your reported speed of 20 mph suggests around 650 calories per hour. And to be clear you are saying you took in zero calories during these 100 mile rides, right? Unless you are WAY outside the range of normal human exercise physiology, the numbers do not add up.

Well, for starters, average speed doesn't actually suggest much about calories per hour unless you know the conditions of those miles. 10 mph uphill burns a lot more calories than 10 mph on the flat, so your average calorie estimates are worthless. Where I live is a bit of flat in the middle of a bunch of hilly, when I ride any more than 25 miles, I will very quickly encounter a fair amount of hills, and in some directions, that 25 mile figure is way too high. Secondly, as MoAlpha notes, people who train for endurance do get better at other forms of metabolism. I am fairly extreme in this regard, riding 250 miles per week for 9 months of the year and doing 3 hour high resistance sessions on the elliptical twice a week and 3 1-hour sessions during the other three months will do that for you. I'm sure that pulls me out of the average figures you're citing, but again, MoAlpha notes that your statements that this is impossible are contrary to things a fair number of people do.

I only was doing the fasting centuries last year because I really don't like the kind of food I can pack on the bike while I'm riding. I'd much rather stop for a real meal, brought to me by a waiter or waitress.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 01-05-22, 12:08 PM
  #50  
Tragically Ignorant
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,094 Times in 5,053 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha
The web site cited has a bad cert, so not going there. However, the missing piece here may be gluconeogenesis, which scavenges amino acids from protein, glycerol from fat, and lactate from anaerobic metabolism, and coverts them to glucose. This is in addition to ketogenesis from fat and does, in fact, cannibalize structural proteins in anyone who rides a lot (my arms are exhibit A). Without this mechanism, we would all collapse with seizures and brain damage from hypoglycemia as soon as the glycogen ran out. All of these mechanisms are highly inducible by endurance training, so data from "normal" individuals don't count for much.

In any case, the 13-14 mph thing for fasted riders is contrary to common experience, even though one does go faster on long rides with a ready source of carbs.

I think the idea that metabolism is so well-understood and uniform from person-to-person that you can estimate where the tank is going to hit E in terms of miles or hours or whatever is pretty hilarious. The understanding that lactate is actually a fuel and not a semi-toxic byproduct is really fairly recent, for example.

I've always thought that hypertrophy is probably related to enhancing glycogen storage, is there anything to that?
livedarklions is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.