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Riding deliberately underpowered?

Old 01-02-22, 04:00 PM
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Tomm Willians
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Riding deliberately underpowered?

I just finished a short ride 25(?) as I知 not feeling quite myself and it was of course a little tougher as expected. I normally consume a GU every 12-15 miles but decided to just drink water and tough it out.
While doing this, it made me wonder if there might be a training benefit to occasionally riding like this? no energy boosting of any sort, just water and deal with it ?
I知 working towards some long distance rides before summer and looking for anything that might help.
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Old 01-02-22, 04:10 PM
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25 miles is not enough for me to consider taking any food along. Riding fasted it not so bad actually.
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Old 01-02-22, 04:27 PM
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Unless you have a special condition, you shouldn't need to supplement on a 25-mile ride. OTOH, if you are doing longer distances, such as 60-100 miles, then start trickling carbs before the 25-mile mark and keep them going throughout the ride.
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Old 01-02-22, 05:02 PM
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Unless the 25 miles is an interval training session where you're doing really hard efforts, I'd skip the fueling. I often ride fasted, but usually solo, for up to three hours. Training like this your body will utilize stored fats as a fuel source, and become efficient at it. I'll only do this solo because in a group ride I can't be sure if that 'easy' ride may not turn into a hammer ride.
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Old 01-02-22, 05:14 PM
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Try using time as your measure rather that distance when fueling. I fuel every 45 minutes. The reason for this is that, as you know, some miles are much tougher than others. Time doesn't care how tough the miles are.

Last edited by growlerdinky; 01-02-22 at 05:15 PM. Reason: none. I just wanted to emphasize what great advice this is. You're welcome.
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Old 01-02-22, 05:17 PM
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I almost never, ever eat before a ride (or indoor trainer session,) and rarely during a ride unless it's over 50 miles or 3 hours. Drinking, though, is key, and too much or too little are both problematic for me.
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Old 01-02-22, 05:42 PM
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It’s all about intensity and your training goals, not distance. If you want to perform at peak, you need to fuel for it.
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Old 01-02-22, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomm Willians View Post
I just finished a short ride 25(?) as I知 not feeling quite myself and it was of course a little tougher as expected. I normally consume a GU every 12-15 miles but decided to just drink water and tough it out.
While doing this, it made me wonder if there might be a training benefit to occasionally riding like this? no energy boosting of any sort, just water and deal with it ?
I知 working towards some long distance rides before summer and looking for anything that might help.
A general rule of thumb is that you run low on glycogen after about 90 minutes of riding at a decent pace. You can train to go longer. I never eat for rides less than 40 miles. I may be a bit low on fuel near the end, but not enough to significantly impair my power output. If you're going really hard, then you'll run out of glycogen sooner, and if you ride easy you can go longer.
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Old 01-02-22, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomm Willians View Post
I normally consume a GU every 12-15 miles
That seems like a lot.

Last edited by Rolla; 01-02-22 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 01-02-22, 09:23 PM
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You need to know your body and how it's going to respond. This will change as your body changes in response to the stress of training.

BF can give you their experience, which are data points.
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Old 01-03-22, 12:09 AM
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I think it's a good idea to train away from simple sugar & toward more complex carbs and fat & a bit of protein, especially for long distances.

Gu is good for a short race or if you're fading late in the day, but nutrition is much better overall.

Sugar in the water bottle not great either, IMO.
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Old 01-03-22, 02:11 AM
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i eat a big plate of spaghetti before every ride just like the Italian riders. puts hair on your chest.
i take a bottle of sugar water, Kool-Aid , sugar, dextrose, and sea salt mix.
If you are not reaching 60 to 80% of your max heart rate, the training is doing no good.
At least that is what Greg LeMond told me and no, i was not the guy he sent for tacos.
Carry food as a precaution, you do not have to eat it, but will save your bacon if you hit the wall. Phil Anderson used to take a ton of food. Drove his wife nuts. Like two picnic baskets on every ride. But he is a strapping Australian, 6'5" and legs like tree trunks.
Steve Bauer? Don't even talk about it. 5000 calories every ride. But his bike creaks like a rusty bed spring in New Orleans every time he throws down a sprint. Power. Watts.
Maybe someone on the trail will need your food if you don't want it. Like the hungry rottweilier who is chasing you.
If you want to lose weight, ride til you are hungry and add 1 hour to your ride.
No wait, that's what Chris Frome does and look what happened to him, got dropped like a sack of potatoes on stage 7.

Last edited by cjenrick; 01-03-22 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 01-03-22, 06:11 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by AdkMtnMonster View Post
I almost never, ever
Lewis Carroll, is that you?
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Old 01-03-22, 06:42 AM
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There's a lot of reasons you might feel particularly tired on a single 25 mile ride.

That said, it doesn't even occur to me to eat during a 25 mile ride. I got used to riding 100 miles without eating during the worst of the COVID lockdown, in my experience it's very doable with practice, but ymmv, literally.
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Old 01-03-22, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by cjenrick View Post
i eat a big plate of spaghetti before every ride just like the Italian riders. puts hair on your chest.
i take a bottle of sugar water, Kool-Aid , sugar, dextrose, and sea salt mix.
If you are not reaching 60 to 80% of your max heart rate, the training is doing no good.
At least that is what Greg LeMond told me and no, i was not the guy he sent for tacos.
Carry food as a precaution, you do not have to eat it, but will save your bacon if you hit the wall. Phil Anderson used to take a ton of food. Drove his wife nuts. Like two picnic baskets on every ride. But he is a strapping Australian, 6'5" and legs like tree trunks.
Steve Bauer? Don't even talk about it. 5000 calories every ride. But his bike creaks like a rusty bed spring in New Orleans every time he throws down a sprint. Power. Watts.
Maybe someone on the trail will need your food if you don't want it. Like the hungry rottweilier who is chasing you.
If you want to lose weight, ride til you are hungry and add 1 hour to your ride.
No wait, that's what Chris Frome does and look what happened to him, got dropped like a sack of potatoes on stage 7.
Last time I looked, Steve Bauer and Phil Anderson hadn't won any races lately, either. And how many Tours de France did each win compared to Froome?
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Old 01-03-22, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by cjenrick View Post
i eat a big plate of spaghetti before every ride just like the Italian riders. puts hair on your chest.
i take a bottle of sugar water, Kool-Aid , sugar, dextrose, and sea salt mix.
If you are not reaching 60 to 80% of your max heart rate, the training is doing no good.
At least that is what Greg LeMond told me and no, i was not the guy he sent for tacos.
Carry food as a precaution, you do not have to eat it, but will save your bacon if you hit the wall. Phil Anderson used to take a ton of food. Drove his wife nuts. Like two picnic baskets on every ride. But he is a strapping Australian, 6'5" and legs like tree trunks.
Steve Bauer? Don't even talk about it. 5000 calories every ride. But his bike creaks like a rusty bed spring in New Orleans every time he throws down a sprint. Power. Watts.
Maybe someone on the trail will need your food if you don't want it. Like the hungry rottweilier who is chasing you.
If you want to lose weight, ride til you are hungry and add 1 hour to your ride.
No wait, that's what Chris Frome does and look what happened to him, got dropped like a sack of potatoes on stage 7.
Did OP ask how to win the TdF? I must have missed that.

OP didn't mention racing at all. OP didn't even ask about losing weight. No idea why you're off on this tangent. I'm pretty sure "got dropped like Chris Frome on stage 7" is a thing people posting in GC on BF need to worry about.
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Old 01-03-22, 07:57 AM
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If I am going to ride 40+ miles, then I will have something around mile 15 or so.
If I am going to ride 25 miles, then I will have something after the ride, if needed.
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Old 01-03-22, 08:11 AM
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Water and a gummy bear or three every 20 minutes.
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Old 01-03-22, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
If I am going to ride 40+ miles, then I will have something around mile 15 or so.
If I am going to ride 25 miles, then I will have something after the ride, if needed.

And I think those kind of numbers are going to vary wildly from person to person. I might eat during a 75 mile ride, but probably no shorter, and it's going to be more like 50 miles in. I think this is a situation where there is no "normal".

Honestly, I don't think we know enough about what OP means by "working towards some long rides" to know how what we do compares. I remember a thread a few years back where people were asked their definition of a "long ride" and the answers varied from something like 10 miles to three digit figures, and that's not even taking into account the qualities of the rides. We know OP means longer than 25 miles, but how much longer and in what kind of time are open questions.
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Old 01-03-22, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 1979schwinn View Post
Water and a gummy bear or three every 20 minutes.

Wrong. Swedish Fish. They're shaped like a healthier fat.
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Old 01-03-22, 08:23 AM
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If fit, I never bring nor need to eat food on rides under 4 hours and have done many 200Km brevets without eating. If OP had eaten normally during the previous day (not dieting) and ate normally on the day of the ride, it is inconceivable to me to run out of gas on a 25 mile ride even at threshold. Perhaps, the gas tank (glycogen stored in muscles and glucose in liver) were low from the start of the ride and then, you were burning fat. It takes a lot of specific training to be comfortable only to be burning fat and that was the case, I suppose your brain was not a happy camper. (I usually carry an emergency ration of something awful like a cliff bar that I would only eat if hurting bigtime)
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Old 01-03-22, 08:43 AM
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Mixing things up and doing the same ride differently is probably better than doing the same ride the same way every time.

Differently being both in the effort you put out for that entire ride and certain segments and even how you do or don't fuel while on the bike. I've typically rode with water only for my cool weather riding in the fall and winter.

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Old 01-03-22, 09:49 AM
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It appears that some more info on my behalf would be helpful, thanks for the input so far. The 斗onger ride I知 referring to is I want to attempt a 24hr with the hope of hitting 300 miles. I intend to work up to this by doing 8-10-12 perhaps 16 and then give it my best shot. I致e completed 4 centuries so I am accustomed to rides much farther than 25 miles, that was just an off day.
I知 also diabetic so food intake requirements are different for me, if I bonk there痴 nothing I can eat to recover on that ride. I知 done for the day. More than once I致e had to sit alongside the road waiting for someone from my ride group to go get a car to pick me up.
Its for that reason that if I should employ a training technique of 渡o energy boost just water and determination it wouldn稚 be a good idea to push it beyond 30 (?) miles.

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Old 01-03-22, 10:06 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Tomm Willians View Post
It appears that some more info on my behalf would be helpful, thanks for the input so far. The “longer ride” I’m referring to is I want to attempt a 24hr with the hope of hitting 300 miles. I intend to work up to this by doing 8-10-12 perhaps 16 and then give it my best shot. I’ve completed 4 centuries so I am accustomed to rides much farther than 25 miles, that was just an off day.
I’m also diabetic so food intake requirements are different for me, if I bonk there’s nothing I can eat to recover on that ride…. I’m done for the day. More than once I’ve had to sit alongside the road waiting for someone from my ride group to go get a car to pick me up.
Its for that reason that if I should employ a training technique of “no energy boost just water and determination” it wouldn’t be a good idea to push it beyond 30 (?) miles.
You have Type I DM, you're training for an extreme event, and you're asking this group, rather than working with a diabetes-specialized endocrinologist and a sports nutritionist?
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Old 01-03-22, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
You have Type I DM, you're training for an extreme event, and you're asking this group, rather than working with a diabetes-specialized endocrinologist and a sports nutritionist?
No I have type 2 and I already talk to my Dr about this, I知 seeking additional input that may prove useful. As previously mentioned, I知 already doing centuries so clearly I知 not clueless how this works, just investigating different angles.
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