livedarklions

Weird that your list of concerns seems to have no overlap with the actual content of the petition, which doesn't mention anything about safety at all or regulation. This petition is carefully crafted so as not to gore the ox of bike shop owners who don't want safety regulation any more than Walmart does.

UniChris

Huh? More like the opposite, discs are all over the place - if I filter on what's available to go pick up at my local Walmart, anything over $200 is disc, while those under are rim, with the solitary exception of a $248 "downhilll style" mountain bike the spring fork of which no doubt comes with a stern warning not to ride down any actual mountains.

In terms of actual product line evolution, the rim brake Schwinn Ranger has been discontinued (though there's still floor stock in some stores) and replaced by the Sidewinder with cable-actuated discs.

But changes, particularly in the lower tier $100 class can also be more subtle - you were responded to a post talking about details of bottom brackets, not sure you can see those very readily in the store.

UniChris

Wow, just found a big box tier (granted ship-to-store) mountain bike I'd actually be excited about.

The Kent Airflex actually comes without a spring-loaded ballast sandbag up front! Granted that says little about the durability, which for anything in this "better big box" price tier is questionable. But I like that they've built a simpler bike without anti-features (now if only I could get my friction shifters back)

Chances are more likely that anything along these lines I actually buy would be a surviving 1990's MTB... and probably better for it. But I like that someone is still making a simple, rigid, "campus" mountain bike

(But "airflex"? Talk about a terrible name for a bike, it's like someone stole something off the name ideas sheet for home gym equipment)

2old

I don't perceive this problem very well. When my children were young many, many years ago there were only big box bikes for them (if there were better ones, I wasn't aware of them). Yet we rode together constantly with neither mishaps nor mechanical problems that couldn't be fixed on the spot and the bikes were easy to maintain. One bike even lasted through four kids, getting new paint and whatever other components were worn each time, then was given, still functional, to another family.

grant40

Yes I find it interesting that this this has side pull road brakes but longer instead of the side pull mountain bike brakes that come in 2 peices (I don't know what they are called). Definitely more of a hybrid and NOT a mountain bike.

grant40

My friend's sister rode this 13 year old Walmart bike every day almost and it had no real mechanical problems besides the rear "shock" getting busted. The only other thing that Is wrong with it is it is a heavy, boat anchor of a bike. The seat angle is down to her not knowing about seat positions.



A lot of it comes down to how well the person working at the store assembled the bike and how well it was treated during shipping.

CliffordK

Car manufacturers have also had their growing pains. There is a reason why Fiat and Yugo took a hiatus from selling vehicles in the USA.

Part of the problem is not just Walmart, but also the manufacturers. Including big brands like Shimano.

There are certain models of Shimano parts that I absolutely refuse to use.

However, I also know that one can't install a $1000 Ultegra groupset on a $200 bicycle. Still, I have to wonder if there is a minimum standard of parts they could enforce (without other no-name brands just replacing them).

Reflector Guy

That's probably about all the "mountain bike" I would need. I don't ride on MTB trails or jump up or down curbs. But for the occasional railroad-ballast kind of "roads" I might occasionally ride on, a rigid fork would probably be fine. Maybe some wider tires too... Ten more pounds could be saved by replacing the triple crankset with a single.

Some neighborhood kid left his mountain bike on my sidewalk awhile back.... I finally went out to move it before it got dark and people would be tripping over it. I could not believe how heavy it was!

Jax Rhapsody

Another 15 years they might end up with something like an optilink... slow goes the progression of those bikes. The deraileures are basically 90s tech updrade from the 80s tech. Oddly some Panama Jacks and Margaritavilles had IGHs.

Vintage Schwinn

This is beyond ridiculous and likely originates from some folks who relish any chance to try and bash Walmart in a misguided effort in attempting to convince consumers that the only acceptable bicycles are sold at bike shops. Most of these cry babies who continue on and on with this bashing are either low-wage laborers (techs) at local bike shops or likely the shop foremen or counter help at the LBS. I cannot see someone who is a principal stakeholder or sole proprietor of any local bike shop stooping so low to bother wasting their precious valuable time and energy on this.

Wallyworld does not do anything except market said bicycles aimed at a demographic seeking what that particular customer feels is the best value for the money that they have to spend. Certainly, some of the half-wits that assemble the Walmart store's bicycles can sometimes do it very poorly, but at least half of the time, they do it, at least in a minimally acceptable way. I play golf every weekend with a pal of mine that is one of the leading accident attorneys in the Southeastern US. The Wallyworld bikes are no worse than the expensive bikes from LBS from a standpoint of where the lawyers would have a field day. Are Wallyworld bikes POS from a long term durability standpoint, maybe a few are, but some will be riding along twenty years from now with only new tubes if stored indoors or in a garage/shed and not exposed to the outdoor weather when not being used. You know that Walmart sold out of all of those $125 , 2020 pacificCycle China built 'schwinn' STINGRAY re-issue copies. Hey, if Wallyworld bikes are not that popular, then why the heck did those sell out immediately at the $125 store price, and then resellers were routinely immediately getting $400 to $650 for these same $125 pacCycle schwinn STINGRAY 2020 re-issue copies.

Wallyworld & Tar-Jay sell a huge number of bicycles and for the most part, these bicycles do serve the purchaser's bicycle riding needs perfectly.
It is not like Ralph Nader is pounding the halls of Congress, getting hearings, and promoting another best seller: UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED II, The Plague of Wallyworld Bicycles.... Walmart gives the people what they want. Nobody forces anyone to buy a bicycle from Walmart or Target. Millions continue to do so even though there are probably at least two or three independent local bike shops in all US cities with at least a population of 300,000 in the metro area. What the heck does that say about Local bike shops? Sure, the LBS must concentrate its efforts to a clientele that can afford to spend more because it is extremely difficult to compete with Walmart or Target in the same product category, because the margins on such products wouldn't be enough for an independent local business to compete, as Wallyworld and Tar-Jay have economies of scale in purchasing, shipping, inventory management, as well as store overhead and point of sale transaction accounting and re-ordering/replenishing stock, not to mention economy of scale in both labor cost and advertising.....

100,000's of folks, each month, seem to be happy with their purchase of a Wal-mart bicycle. That is unlikely to change.
It is the same old song: Bash Walmart Bikes............. but you know as many times as this song has been released and re-recorded by others again and again, it has failed to ever make a dent in the charts. Walmart and Target bicycles continue to sell in massive numbers! The public must at least be partially satisfied with the bicycles that it buys at Walmart, because the number sold there remains extremely strong year over year with no decline in sight. There has always been a large segment of the population that does not care about the pedigree or exclusivity of the bicycle that they purchase. Many don't care to know anything about it's maintenance or care, and would just assume purchase a new bike once the current bike begins to show rust or has flat tires. This segment of the bike buyers seems to love Walmart bicycles. I have not yet seen any infomercials or 3 minute television legal ads exclaiming call 1-888-BAD-BIKE.
My lawyer pal owns one of the largest law firms in the Southeastern USA, and has tv ads all over the place.....
If there was indeed something with a basis in fact on this subject, the major law firms across the country would certainly take notice because Wallyworld & Tar-Jay and other major retailers have deep pockets. There just isn't any basis, as Walmart bicycles and other big box store bicycles are more than decent enough for what they are. The LBS employees on this forum don't like that, and so they spew all of these, at best, half-truths about Walmart bikes. They aren't quite total outright lies because yes, the typical assembler at big box stores like Walmart, does not do a very good job at that, and yes, some bicycle models that you find at big box stores like Walmart have some crummy components, or are nearly entirely crummy overall from a long term durabilty standpoint.
Still, even so, those Walmart bicycles are not nearly as bad as the silly fools who are griping so loudly here , would like you to believe..
They are decent enough. The majority of those who continue to buy them certainly think so. Walmart continues to lead all in bicycle sales.
The consumer continues to vote with his or her wallet for Walmart bikes over what the LBS (local bike shops) have to offer, month over month and year over year.
What does that tell you about Walmart's bike offerings versus what the LBS carries in inventory?

sloppy12

Is it really odd that they slapped some IGH on crap bikes? I mean that was pretty much the hallmark of a entry level bike for years. whats odd is the bikes are kinda cool now because they are old.

livedarklions

When I was a kid, the learning curve was definitely unlearning how to shift with an IGH so you could properly shift with derailleurs. If you were lucky, you went from 3 speed IGH to 5 speed IGH then to 10 speeds where you had to get used to pedaling through the shift.

I loved the stick shift on my Stingray, btw..

sykerocker 

Been reading the entire thread, lots of interesting comments, allow me to toss a few additional ones in. Background: Was a professional mechanic back during the 70's Bike Boom for a Schwinn/Raleigh dealership in Erie, PA. Have continued to keep my skills sharp, although not necessarily up to day, in the intervening 50 years. Have been running my own shop in one of the property's garages for sixteen years now. Used to do a lot of fix and flip, nowadays it's more just neighborhood repair and assembly.

First thought: There are some worthwhile Walmart bicycles out there. Of course they all cost around $250.00 and up, unless you're talking a single-speed, coaster braked, balloon-tired beach cruiser. I've spent the last two riding seasons building mail-order bicycles for neighbors in my shop, and have had a good look at lots of different stuff, primarily ordered thru Amazon, Target, and Walmart. I've developed (redeveloped?) a few prejudices over the past two years. Anything Rollfast is absolute junk (actually, this prejudice goes back to 1972 and has never abated). Walmart Schwinn's, as long as you're talking $200.00 or more, are actually decent bikes if you don't mind 20 year old technology, 7-speed freewheels, and weight. Next's are almost as bad as Rollfast.

Second thought: Somewhere in this thread, someone was waxing lyrically about their Free Spirit from the 70's. I'm going to assume you got one of the last Austrian-built ones with the steel lugged frame, because all the Free Spirits we saw come thru the shop in the 70's were rebadged Murray's. And they were nothing to write home to mother about. But, that's what you got for $70.00 fifty years ago (the cheapest Schwinn Varsity or Raleigh Record cost $100.00 back then, and that 30% price difference was a major chunk of change, plus there was the matter of availability). At least they were better than Iverson's, which are the absolute, all time, worst bicycle ever made - which is why I can't get overly fired up about the current cheap Walmart bikes. I had a number of them come into the shop with the head tube sheared completely from the frame, and said bikes were less than 90 days old. And Iverson's were only $10.00 cheaper than a Murray.

Final thought: Ok, bike shop and co-op people, rather than getting on your high horse about wanting to ban Walmart bikes from the planet, how about coming up with a line of decent, serviceable derailleur equipped bikes starting at $200.00? And single speed, coaster brake cruisers that start about $125.00? With proper bike shop setup, delivery, and backup. Nothing current is necessary, bolt on wheels are fine, 7-speed freewheels and twist grip shifters are still effective, and they don't necessarily have to be Shimano. Bring these out and Walmart is no longer much of an issue, assuming you can keep the bikes in inventory, because you're cutting Walmart out of everything other than $50.00 little children's bikes. Oh, you can't do that and still make enough of a profit to keep the shop in business? Then shut up. You're not looking out for quality, you're trying to eliminate another retail outlet that undercuts you even if their quality is much poorer. And probably 99% of the bicycle buying public out there will never show their face on these pages, do not have an impassioned love for bicycles, have no idea how to wrench a bike (some of the things that have come thru my shop . . . . ), and are shopping for one of two things - a bicycle for their child which will be beaten and run into the ground within a couple of years, or a bicycle for themselves to do a half hour ride around the neighborhood after dinner on nice, warm evenings. Hopefully they keep it up for six months before they get bored. Those kind of customers look awful askance when you start quoting them prices of $400.00 and up, for what is, to them, an adult (or child's) toy.

And if they see it as a toy, they expect to pay toy prices.

sykerocker 

You also have the knowledge, ability, and tools to put said bicycle in decent running shape, or at least someone who willl do it for you at a cost that you're willing to pay. The Walmart customer does not, and is probably not interested in acquiring those skills. All he/she wants is a bicycle to ride down the street, at a price they think is reasonable.

Yes "reasonable" is a term that needs defined in each case.

JehD

While I can get onboard with this and Ive seen some poorly built bikes and more importantly poorly assembled bikes while at the local Walmart. I've run the gamut and bought a few bikes at the LBS (Trek- Electra , from long ago Schwinns in the 70s that I got as a gifts (when they were a good bike though heavy...they did take the abuse a kid could dish out). I have also purchased a couple of Walmart bikes from the cheap $188 (not bottom of the line) to a more moderately priced bike in the $500 range.

I bought a Genesis Saracino MTB for the mrs. When we went I brought a handful of tools so I could do adjustments in store and we sent about an hour testing and trying bikes for her ( just light riding looking mostly for a comfortable bike with a few gears that would be ok on some sand and dirt. I thought a step through cruiser with a few gears but no dice on the colors.

We ended up with the Genesis and Honestly I knew the bike going in as I watched the KevCentral video. Ive worked on cars for 35 years so I have no issue doing mechanical repairs and when I got home I took the bike apart. These bikes need to be reassembled top to bottom. They are just slapped together at the factory and then reslapped at the stores. SO either you need to do it yourself or oay someone. Even so there are limitations. I regreased the bike and adjusted everything and the bike was still just OK/Meh. Nothing I could do would clean up the sloppy fork. I wasnt expecting Fox quality but just enough to work and even after multiple adjustments, a call for a new fork and then being told just to return the bike.

I also bought a Mongoose Dolomite ALX for $500 and gave it the same treatment. I made a few changes to the touch points for comfort like the seat and grips and replace a few other things just because they had to save money and I didnt like them. That said I've been riding this all summer and fall and its held up really well and been a fun bike.

In the end for the MRs I found a 20 yo Giant MTB. Paid $25 and then spent another $60 on tires/tubes and rim strips. Spent a bit of time cleaning and adjusting and she has bike that will last another 10 years.
You do get what you pay for but for such a low point the expectations need to be lower, if the price point wasnt that low they wouldn't sell the bike but thats better than selling complete junk and someone getting hurt or just tossing it in 5 months.

car5car

Bicycle repair requires about 1% of brain of a good car mechanic and about 2% of brain of a good motorcycle mechanic. So be happy, you don't need to repair a nuclear submarine or a spaceship.

Ironfish653

Less than that, even. The only '90s tech is plastic 'Grip-shifts' instead of plastic thumbies, and stamped-steel V-brakes instead of stamped-steel cantis. The grip-shifts are probably not any cheaper, but less likely to get pranged during shipping, and V-brakes are easier (and faster) to install than cantis. Remember, time costs money, and if you can shave a few seconds off of the assembly on a bicycle, it adds up when you're making tens of thousands at a time. Square-taper BB's, BSA threaded FWs, and Falcon-pattern RD's have been established for 40+ years, and they work fine at the price/expectation level. Remember, it take time to change designs, and time costs money, so unless there's a really good cost-savings to be proven for freehubs and Octalink, it's not going to 'trickle down' to the $200 price tier.


*Contrary to what BF believes, there is almost no actual assembly or adjustment done at 'unboxing' in the store. The bbike is pretty much fully assembled, save for the front wheel, and pedals, The handlebar has all the controls installed and cables are connected to the respective components. The (retail store) assembler just has to put the bar/stem on to the steerer neck. It's not a bare frame and a box of components that has to be lovingly crafted into a bicycle.

I totally see how you would spec a multi-speed beach cruiser with an IGH rather than an RD. The 'base model' single-speed cruiser already has horizontal dropouts, and does not have an RD hanger. An IGH model simply requires the wheel and shift controls, which fit onto the coaster-brake frame. An RD model would need an entire new frame. Using an IGH saves money on the framebuilding end, since there's only one frame shared between the two models.

UniChris

.
Indeed, picked up a Schwinn Ranger 24 used 18 months ago for a young relative who was spending too much time out of saddle on his 20", and as he's grown I've now got my eye out for a decent used instance of the 26 version, or similar.

I had my own take on this last year. And I mostly agree - the thing is that a walmart will always win, because they have the logistics and the volume.

So if you want to see serviceable bikes at rock bottom prices, the solution is ultimately to work with them rather than against them.

UniChris

Can you tell me where I plug in the ODB reader?

Jax Rhapsody

You're right, an IGH was on entry bikes, and probably still are, yet a different class of entry bike, than these, but then nowadays that depends more on the type of bike, with our 28284+4 different types of bikes. In case of beach cruisers; Electra, I don't think is entry, yet a Magaritaville could have the same Sturmy Archer as a $600 Electra. Typically a geared walcruiser has some 1x7 drivetrain. I ain't complaining, mind you, I don't mind walmart bikes, anybody who remembers me, knows I defend them to a degree.

Jax Rhapsody

Under the charging port for your Di2 battery.

Jax Rhapsody

Yep, the gripshifts. They started getting them in the late 90s, when many of the bikes still had sidepulls or cantis. I recall seeing cantis on the f/s bikes, before everything was starting to get vbrakes. Yeah, you're right though I was mostly being facetious on the octolink thing, mainly joking on how the bikes ride the waves of bike fads, and kinds slow to progress. Though I haven't seen any; Walmart is allegedly selling entry mtbs(not like that of the Granite Peak), with clutched RDs and such. Also you're wrong on the seperate frames for single/multi speed cruisers.

The bikes with RD hangers are fairly "new" bikes. I don't think any 90s mtb there had a RD hanger, and I have a Huffy Koza in my kitchen now(21spd, internal cable routing, alloy wheels, yet axle mount rd, and side pulls). Before then, and what the geared cruisers use, are those axle mount RDs. The cruisers are technologically the oldest bikes in the store, and all share the same frame, axle mount RD, ashtabula crank... except the LaJolla, and Onyx, and that one klunker they sold in Canada- those were the most "advenced" in tech, as far as walcruisers go; LaJolla was alloy, that canadian one had disc brakes, all three had english BBs. The only advancement the standard cruisers got, were vbrakes on the geared ones.

JehD

Considering the home repairs i've seen or peoples inability to open the owner's manual over the years to even set the clock the average person must be using on the .03% range.

JehD

True, I'm sure there are a lot of people that like their WM bikes. ( I'm one) Some of them for the money are good looking and assembled well enough, yet I haven't seen one that didn't need to be actually taken apart and redone. Though on the flip side some of them have components that are just so subpar as to be dangerous (I'm also one - returned the bike) and with people expecting to be able to ride them "no assembly required" is where there is an an issue. I think if they bumped the price a little 15% or so and put that to proper assembly they would have a better safer lineup.

70sSanO

The Walmart $99 multi gear adult bikes are pretty much a thing of the past, at least looking at their online offerings.

Assembly is an issue, but in all honesty, many (most?) Shimano automated factory machine assembled hubs are adjusted too tight and some with little grease.

I can’t speak for current XTR/Dura Ace assembly, but down the food chain I’ve found it quite common. I’ll open them, add/re-grease if necessary, and properly adjust the cones.

I’m not sure what universe people reside in where a discount store, with less competent assemblers, and lower quality components can make those adjustments. Give them slightly better Shimano hubs just as poorly assembled at the factory and you still end up with ruined cones and races by the time 500 hours of riding rolls around; but the ball bearings won’t be dust.

John