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Silk riding shorts?

Old 02-10-22, 06:37 AM
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Wool is very slow aerodynamically but it doesn't stink. A large portion of my kit is wool or Yak but in the summer months and if I want to go fast, I am not sporting wool
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Old 02-10-22, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by noimagination
Using cotton during aerobic exercise is just evil. I learned that the hard way 30 years ago during a week-long solo backpacking trip on the Long Trail, when it rained almost continuously. I was wearing cotton underwear and t-shirts, fortunately my socks were wool so blistered feet wasn't a problem, but my most prominent journal entry for that trip was "NO MORE F#@KING COTTON!!!" Since then, I haven't worn a scrap of cotton when hiking/backpacking, cycling, skiing, running ...
Note that cotton technology has come light years in the past decade or so. "Charged Cotton" technology added stretch and wicking to cotton, and there is a new treatment called Clarus that promises to make cotton (and wool and silk) comparable to synthetic fabrics for stretch and wicking. Given that cotton is MUCH more environmentally safe than any petrotextile, we shouldn't write it off entirely.

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Old 02-10-22, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Wool is very slow aerodynamically but it doesn't stink. A large portion of my kit is wool or Yak but in the summer months and if I want to go fast, I am not sporting wool
Wool slows you down?
Interesting
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Old 02-10-22, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
Wool slows you down?
Interesting
Do you want the CdA figures?

Interesting that you find that interesting.

Seems rather obvious. When was the last time the TTT was done in wool in the TdF?
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Old 02-10-22, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bbbean
Note that cotton technology has come light years in the past decade or so. "Charged Cotton" technology added stretch and wicking to cotton, and there is a new treatment called Clarus that promises to make cotton (and wool and silk) comparable to synthetic fabrics for stretch and wicking. Given that cotton is MUCH more environmentally safe than any petrotextile, we shouldn't write it off entirely.

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Cotton with synthetics in is MUCH more environmentally friendly than lycra?

I remain unconvinced. I mean, we're talking modern agriculture then shipping it to China where they make the modern cotton with synthetics in
​​​​​​ then shipping it somewhere where labour is cheap for the actual tailoring bit then back to you.
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Old 02-10-22, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Branko D
Cotton with synthetics in is MUCH more environmentally friendly than lycra?
It isn't "cotton with synthetics in it". It is cotton that has been processed to enhance its ability to wick moisture. Some of that is in the spinning and weaving process

Originally Posted by Branko D
I remain unconvinced. I mean, we're talking modern agriculture then shipping it to China where they make the modern cotton with synthetics in
​​​​​​ then shipping it somewhere where labour is cheap for the actual tailoring bit then back to you.
Again, it isn't "cotton with synthetics in it". We're comparing natural fibers to oil based fibers like polyester/lycra/spandex. Cotton is still biodegradeable and doesn't release microfibers into the water the way polyester and related fabrics do. And, of course, synthetic fabrics get shipped around the world just like natural fibers do. But we are working to rebuild the US textile industry, and domestic spinning is increasing each year. As I type this, I'm wearing jeans and a shirt that were grown and sewn in the US. No trip to China required.

Mind you, I'm still kitted out in Lycra/spandex/polyester when I ride enough for sweat/aero considerations to be a factor. But I opt for natural fibers for more casual rides, and am hopeful that as technology improves, cotton, wool, and silk can rival oil based fabrics for stretch, wicking, and aerodynamics.

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Old 02-10-22, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Do you want the CdA figures?

Interesting that you find that interesting.

Seems rather obvious. When was the last time the TTT was done in wool in the TdF?
Sure.
Because differences in fabric affect you the same way they affect TDF riders. Of course you can feel the effects of the wool slowing you down
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Old 02-11-22, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
Sure.
Because differences in fabric affect you the same way they affect TDF riders. Of course you can feel the effects of the wool slowing you down
Who said anything about your feelings. I was talking about hard data. It is quite significant time trialing at 27-30 mph. A typical wool jersey vs tight aero lycra jersey vs skinsuit on my setup are about 0.015 and 0.02 m2

I have no experience with silk cycling kit.
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Old 02-11-22, 06:08 AM
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"Charged cotton" has 5% elastane for stretch. So, yes, cotton with synthetics in is an apt description.

However, in broader terms, I am not convinced of natural fibers produced via modern agriculture being significantly more eco friendly than synthetics.

A cursory glance at emissions - although data does vary depending on source - doesn't really support the idea of cotton being particularly clean in contrast to, say, lycra.

There are probably other differences because synthetics aren't biodegradable, but knowing modern agriculture and it's enthusiastic use of fertiliser which ends up in water... i couldn't make a definite statement which is worse.

I'm just find the automatic assumption that natural being somehow better or desirable on it's own to be fallacious. If it has better properties for what you're trying to do, sure - while I don't very much "dig" merino base layers, my go-to winter socks and cycling cap are merino, but avoiding synthetics elsewhere just to avoid synthetics - meh.

Last edited by Branko D; 02-11-22 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 02-11-22, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
Sure.
Because differences in fabric affect you the same way they affect TDF riders. Of course you can feel the effects of the wool slowing you down
And there are no intermediate steps between "taking my time" and elite pro? Do you allow for the fact that some people simply enjoy going fast? Are you familiar with amateur racing? Know anyone who enjoys taking KOMs or winning the group ride sprint to the city limit?
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Old 02-11-22, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Branko D
...but knowing modern agriculture and it's enthusiastic use of fertiliser which ends up in water... i couldn't make a definite statement which is worse.
You should acquaint yourself with actual farmers, researchers, and regulators. Note that fertilizer that ends up in rivers doesn't do a farmer any good. Note also that on a per acre basis, homeowners and industry use FAR more fertilizers and pesticides than farmers do, because they don't have the same economic incentives to reduce the use of expensive chemicals.

Modern agriculture has made huge strides in breeding, chemistry, practices, and processing, and is vastly more environmentally friendly than synthetic textile production. As you note, our products also biodegrade, and we produce a new crop every year.
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Old 02-11-22, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bbbean
And there are no intermediate steps between "taking my time" and elite pro? Do you allow for the fact that some people simply enjoy going fast? Are you familiar with amateur racing? Know anyone who enjoys taking KOMs or winning the group ride sprint to the city limit?
I only mentioned TDF riders as that is who was referenced in the post I was replying to.
Try to keep up please
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Old 02-11-22, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62
Who said anything about your feelings. I was talking about hard data. It is quite significant time trialing at 27-30 mph. A typical wool jersey vs tight aero lycra jersey vs skinsuit on my setup are about 0.015 and 0.02 m2

I have no experience with silk cycling kit.
Wow.
You have compiled your own personal time trial data on the differences between a wool jersey, a tight aero lycra jersey, and a skinsuit?
And you ofc also factored in every other possible variable each time so as to be able to pin the differences down to just those three factors?
Good stuff!
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Old 02-11-22, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
Wow.
You have compiled your own personal time trial data on the differences between a wool jersey, a tight aero lycra jersey, and a skinsuit?
And you ofc also factored in every other possible variable each time so as to be able to pin the differences down to just those three factors?
Good stuff!
Not exactly.

I compare one against a control and measure the overall CdA using the Chung method. Probably a hundred different changes or certainly 50. The wool test was just for giggles. So, if you are testing on the same day, all other conditions are controlled. The way you are thinking about the experiment, it is very, very difficult to control.
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Old 02-11-22, 10:11 PM
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Been gone a few days and Wow, did my thread get off topic….
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Old 02-11-22, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Toadmeister
Been gone a few days and Wow, did my thread get off topic….
Hopefully spring will come soon!
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Old 02-11-22, 10:22 PM
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OK, thats enough of the over thinking.
Just get red silk riding shorts and you will be the fastest and sexiest !
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Old 02-12-22, 09:58 AM
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MMmmmm silk.....

In underwear, yes, for bike shorts, uh, probably not my cup of tea. Although, if a company came out with dedicated silk bike shorts built just like the regular ones I 'might' be interested. Funny how things sometimes go back to the original roots although original bike shorts were wool I think.
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Old 02-15-22, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Toadmeister

Sure I’ve had silk boxers in the past but they really don’t keep the family jewels held snugly enough for biking, I need proper support!. YMMV.
Back to the OP.
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