Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

If you change all the parts . . . is it still the same bike?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

If you change all the parts . . . is it still the same bike?

Old 02-20-22, 04:17 PM
  #76  
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 7,752
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4034 Post(s)
Liked 4,419 Times in 2,744 Posts
Originally Posted by subgrade
I'm also tempted to say that the frame is the crucial part. But then I thought about full suspension mountain bikes where the frame consists of several individual parts... is the front triangle or the rear one more important?
Front triangle I would say. If you changed the rear triangle (say it got damaged in a crash) I wouldn't consider it to be a "different" bike. But I think if you changed the front triangle I would consider it to be a different bike at that point.
PeteHski is online now  
Old 02-20-22, 04:27 PM
  #77  
Senior Member
 
zandoval's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,326

Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 879 Post(s)
Liked 1,501 Times in 970 Posts
Originally Posted by Frkl
...At what point does it become a different bike?
When you decide...

That's it!

That's why all my bikes are Franken Bikes... Ha
__________________
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
zandoval is online now  
Old 02-20-22, 04:48 PM
  #78  
Mother Nature's Son
 
delbiker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 3,082

Bikes: 2014 Orbea Avant MD30, 2004 Airborne Zeppelin TI, 2003 Lemond Poprad, 2001 Lemond Tourmalet, 2014? Soma Smoothie

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 832 Post(s)
Liked 1,381 Times in 783 Posts
I have a Fuji Ace that I have changed many times on the few years I have owned it. It now has mustache bars, bar end shifters, triple crank set 48/38/28 and an 8 speed cassette 12-26. Shifters only work in friction mode, but do it very well. I tried a ten speed cassette and the shifting is nor problem. Ergo, I am now thinking of using a double crank set, 46-34 with a cassette something like 11-34. the Deore RD can handle that no problem.

So, being that the bike has been totally refinished and rebuilt completely different than original, it is not the same bike. It is the same frameset, with the materials used for that being the only thing left that is original. With that thought in mind, I ordered decals for the bike, FUJI OLD SCHOOL, with one going on each side of the top, seat, and down tubes.
delbiker1 is offline  
Old 02-20-22, 06:42 PM
  #79  
Senior Member
 
Doug64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1176 Post(s)
Liked 811 Times in 427 Posts
I had a 2006 Bianchi Volpe that had few original parts on it. That frame was replaced under warranty with a 2013 Volpe. The only parts that are from the 2006 bike are the bars and shift/brake levers. It is a different bike.
2006 Volpe


2013 Volpe frame


After looking at the pictures, I think those are the same fenders on both bikes

Last edited by Doug64; 02-20-22 at 06:55 PM.
Doug64 is offline  
Old 02-20-22, 08:45 PM
  #80  
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 324 Times in 225 Posts
Originally Posted by Frkl
There is a philosophical puzzle called the Ship of Theseus, named after an ancient Greek legend: Theseus goes sailing, and over time he and his crew replace every part of their ship, bit by bit. Is it the same ship?

I bought a beautiful lugged, made in Italy, Bianchi road bike new in 1995, and still have it and ride it today. But over time, I have replaced almost every part of it, such that today, only the seat post, headset, and frameset are original. Even though I did not replace the parts with the exact same things, to me, it is still the same bike.

Have you "Ship-of-Theseus'd" a bike? Do you consider it the same bike, or a different one? At what point does it become a different bike?
My 1997 Litespeed still has its original frame, fork, and headset.

It's the same bike.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Old 02-20-22, 10:21 PM
  #81  
Grupetto Bob
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 5,869

Bikes: Bikey McBike Face

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2427 Post(s)
Liked 5,201 Times in 2,718 Posts
As they say in classic car circles, a car (or bike) is only original once.
__________________
Road 🚴🏾‍♂️ & Mountain 🚵🏾‍♂️







rsbob is offline  
Likes For rsbob:
Old 02-21-22, 05:13 AM
  #82  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Saulkrasti, Latvia
Posts: 898

Bikes: Focus Crater Lake

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 391 Post(s)
Liked 336 Times in 204 Posts
Originally Posted by Ironfish653
Other than the old Cannondale Super V / Ultra V / Raven, which were really just aluminum and carbon versions of the same bike (same geometry) you really can't swap the swingarm between different f/s bikes. The linkage, geometry and hard points are designed together, it's not an assembly that's added on after the fact.

You can change the shock, but that would be like putting upgraded shocks on your VW and calling it an Audi.
Sure, but I was thinking of replacement it with the original parts of the same model. It's not about if changing this or that part makes the bike a diffferent model, but rather about the identity. I think it was touched on before in the thread - if you replace the frame with identical one, is it the same bike or is it not? It may look identical, but would you consider it to be the same? I just took it one step further, bringing into question frames that can be dismantled and reassembled.
subgrade is offline  
Old 02-21-22, 09:48 AM
  #83  
USAF Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: SoCal
Posts: 78

Bikes: 1984 Univega GT, 2000 Fuji Newest

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 26 Posts
I have a Univega Gran Tourismo I bought in 1985. Like you, I've changed out many parts with their functional equivalent (maybe better quality) so it's not "all original". However, it's mission hasn't changed. It's still a road bike. Still has friction shifters on the downtube. It's the same bike on several levels.

One other thought. As I said, I bought it new in '85. I've logged a lot of miles and had a few adventures. Had my share of flats and crashes. Spent many hours servicing and cleaning it. If I ever found another '85 Gunmetal GT, it would look the same, maybe ride the same but it wouldn't be the same. And that is more than just the serial number.
Saudadeii is offline  
Likes For Saudadeii:
Old 02-24-22, 04:15 PM
  #84  
Senior Member
 
soyabean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: GMT-5
Posts: 794
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 457 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 243 Posts
Originally Posted by Frkl
I have replaced almost every part of it, such that today, only the seat post, headset, and frameset are original.
To a bike flipper, a frame with the original paint and brand decals on it, the bike is advertised as that.

I do not consider the Ship of Theseus applying to bikes, as it is the frame that is the primary identifier of a bike.

Image how weird a craigslist ad would be if the seller clamied it was a vintage Ritchey bike with a Chinese Schwinn frame...

soyabean is offline  
Old 02-25-22, 09:04 AM
  #85  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,772

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2530 Post(s)
Liked 1,846 Times in 1,160 Posts
Just to be contrary...

My 1998 bike frame broke, and was replaced under warranty. (25 year warranty, remember those?) All the "original" parts, meaning the parts that were on the older frame when it broke, were moved over to the new frame. The consensus seems to be that the "bicycle-ness" of the original bike ended then.

However, the replacement frame was basically unchanged from the original (well, except for being in one piece and painted a different color). With the same parts as the other frame was carrying, and a few adjustments to saddle height and tilt, it felt the same and rode the same as two months earlier. The differences in ride quality between the "new" bike and my other bikes was/is the same as those differences for the "old" bike. So aside from some intangible mystical or philosophical bicycle-ness property, the "new" bike is the same as the "old" bike.
pdlamb is offline  
Old 02-26-22, 12:18 PM
  #86  
Senior Member
 
Steel Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 861
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Liked 456 Times in 246 Posts
Stay with it and Trigger will explain it all
from a great Brit comedy series

Steel Charlie is offline  
Old 02-26-22, 03:16 PM
  #87  
Airplanes, bikes, beer.
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Off the front
Posts: 763

Bikes: Road bikes, mountain bikes, a cx bike, a gravel bike…

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 398 Post(s)
Liked 788 Times in 339 Posts
All it takes is tires. I've ridden bikes that I *LOVED* riding on certain tires, only to find upon wearing out those treads that my favorite tires were no longer available, or had changed. I found different tires, and suddenly it was like riding a whole new bike. (Ride whatever inflation pressure you prefer to argue about and leave me out of it.)
AdkMtnMonster is offline  
Old 02-26-22, 10:01 PM
  #88  
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,569

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaņa pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 861 Post(s)
Liked 695 Times in 382 Posts
Some old Greek guy said something like "You can't ride the same bike twice" a long time ago IIRC.
Reynolds is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.