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Bony Butt & Ride a Racing Bike?

Old 04-11-22, 09:14 PM
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rsbob 
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Bony Butt & Ride a Racing Bike?

As I have - eh, matured - I seem to have lost padding where I sit making longer rides rather uncomfortable. After 40 miles I just can’t wait to get off the seat. Sure I mix it up by standing a bit or coasting downhill with my bum slid back off the saddle but that isn’t enough to really help. I have purchased about about a grand’s worth of new seats, mostly different Selle Italia with cutouts because of gentleman issues which probably put more pressure on my sit bones. So who has had a similar issue and found a good solution that helps you ride 50+ miles comfortably? I do use good chamois shorts and my saddles do have some padding.

Any double padded shorts?
Any miracle saddle with cutout that does not have springs or feel like a sofa that have been ridden over 50 miles?
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Old 04-11-22, 09:58 PM
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During much of last summer I regularly rode wearing two pairs of cycling shorts which helped quite a bit. In winter I always have some type of warmup pants or sweatpants over the shorts which provides much of that same help.

Lately I’ve been spent most of my rides in a tall enough gear (42/14) that I need to spend a lot of time out of the saddle, which also helps.

Otto
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Old 04-11-22, 10:12 PM
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I tend to have similar problems like you do on popular saddle designs where the sides slope downwards on the sit area. They do feel like sofa in a bad way.

I'm also in desperate need of cutout but I also found that a cutout is unnecessary in some saddle designs especially those where the top is almost flat if viewed from the front. If you're looking for a comfortable saddle without cutout and doesn't impose on the jewels, look for ones that are almost flat if viewed from from the nose


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Old 04-11-22, 10:17 PM
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A seat that works for you.

Quality chamois.

Lots of time in the saddle.

🙂
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Old 04-11-22, 10:21 PM
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Leather saddles might be worth a try, if you haven't already. My most comfortable one is a B17, although I kind of wish I had something slightly narrower, but I don't have enough years left to live to go through more saddle break-in.
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Old 04-12-22, 03:13 AM
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No two of my bikes have the same brand and model of saddle. They're all uncomfortable at the start of the season and they're all fine once I've done enough mileage. If your saddle was good for 50-mile rides and longer during your peak riding months last year, chances are that it's now uncomfortable simply because you've recently increased your mileage dramatically, as we all tend to do in the spring.
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Old 04-12-22, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
Let's start at the beginning when talking about saddle comfort on race/pure road bikes. What's your saddle to ground/bars to ground difference? When there is little difference between those two, you'll be hard pressed to find a saddle marketed as a pure road bike saddle to be comfortable.
If you mean how much the difference is affecting the pelvic angle, you'll be surprised to find the pelvic angle from vertical is identical between the Pro road setup, XC MTB, and commuter hybrid regardless of the handlebar vs saddle height. Only the TT setup causes significant forward rotation of the pelvis.

You can certainly interchange saddles between the two (road and XC MTB). Hybrid being more upright, more weight on the saddle requires wider design. Many XC MTBs have saddles that are identical in design to road bike saddles. Pros deliberately try to rotate their pelvis in a more upright position for many good reasons. To achieve it in a slammed down stem requires good flexibility at the lower back. A sign of this good flexibility is able to reach your toes with your fingers.


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Old 04-12-22, 07:28 AM
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Things that make the bum hurt less:

-weigh less
-"all day" or "audax" advertised bib shorts
-make more power
-if your arms can take it, a more aggressive fit with more weight on the hands than upright, if not add some clip on bars
-ride a route needing some out of saddle once in a while
-not sure if this is true, but in my feeble brain it seems a lower cadence may mean more pedal force for the same power meaning less force on the bum
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Old 04-12-22, 08:32 AM
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Do you sit very upright? Is your saddle pushed back or your seat post has a large amount of setback? If yes to both, then you might be sitting heavy in the saddle and not getting any lift from your legs while you pedal to lighten the load on the saddle.

Otherwise with out more info about your measurements and your bike model and size, that's just a wild grasp at something.

I still find more padding is worse. Even for gloves and especially saddles and chamois.
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Old 04-12-22, 08:41 AM
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Generous cut-outs are a must for me, too, and for the same reason. Width is also important. I also found that I did better with less padding. In my experience, once I got these right, I was putting more pressure on my sit bones, and was experiencing the same kind of discomfort that I think you're experiencing, but that went away completely after a two or three weeks riding.

That said, I do still experience some of that discomfort when I go out for long rides with friends that are more casual in their cycling - I chalk that up to less weight on the pedals translating to more weight on the saddle.
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Old 04-12-22, 08:54 AM
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"Similar to the other PS saddles, the PS 1.0 features a slight upward slope at the rear – providing superb hip support when your body is rotated forward in the aero position, or an aggressive road riding position. This tends to be preferred by athletes that don’t move around on the seat excessively while riding. It is also a top choice for triathletes and time trialists who ride in the aerobars, or for flat courses in which the athlete likes to ‘settle in’ to one position and go."

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Old 04-12-22, 11:47 AM
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Maybe try one of these...

I feel the same way about my bony-ass sit bones, myself. Maybe I need to do squats as well as stretches. Anyway, this seat really seems to fit my under-carriage:



Selle SMP TRK

I can ride comfortably for miles in the "crotch cradle", as I call it, then scoot back a little and perch on the generous pads for a change-up.

I have a Medium on a drop-bar bike, and a Large on an upright bike. The only difference seems to be about 3/8" in width at the rear.

Last edited by Fredo76; 04-12-22 at 11:52 AM. Reason: more info
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Old 04-12-22, 03:49 PM
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It has taken Aerotech Designs shorts and ISM or more recently Cobb Randee (now jcob type R https://speedandcomfort.com/collecti...roducts/type-r) saddles to give me any hope of riding over 50 miles.
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Old 04-12-22, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by qwaalodge View Post
I tend to have similar problems like you do on popular saddle designs where the sides slope downwards on the sit area. They do feel like sofa in a bad way.

I'm also in desperate need of cutout but I also found that a cutout is unnecessary in some saddle designs especially those where the top is almost flat if viewed from the front. If you're looking for a comfortable saddle without cutout and doesn't impose on the jewels, look for ones that are almost flat if viewed from from the nose


That's what I use (flat) and have never had a problem with soreness anywhere. I've homed in on the Kontact saddle, and it's predecessor, the E3 Form which was sold by Performance a decade or so ago. I'm so happy with it, I stockpiled some E3's when I could get them on EBay and bike swaps for cheap and lately bought a Kontact- same saddle, different styling. The description of the design by the guy who designed it touted it's ability to avoid pressure that is normally addressed with a cutout, therefore no cutout needed. My experience is true to that.

It does have a small amount of minimal padding. I believe excessive padding will actually exacerbate pundendal type pressure because the sit bones sink into the padding and cause pressure elsewhere, thus exacerbating the need for a cutout. The Kontact/E3 design addresses that without a cutout.

But everyone has to find their own saddle. I recommend at least trying the Kontact or better yet, if you can find an E3 Form on Ebay, it will be a cheap test.

Last edited by Camilo; 04-12-22 at 04:54 PM.
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Old 04-12-22, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jack pot View Post
"Similar to the other PS saddles, the PS 1.0 features a slight upward slope at the rear – providing superb hip support when your body is rotated forward in the aero position, or an aggressive road riding position. This tends to be preferred by athletes that don’t move around on the seat excessively while riding. It is also a top choice for triathletes and time trialists who ride in the aerobars, or for flat courses in which the athlete likes to ‘settle in’ to one position and go."

Bought one of those last year. Still can’t make up my mind about it. Very odd feeling. Will try it again.
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Old 04-12-22, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Do you sit very upright? Is your saddle pushed back or your seat post has a large amount of setback? If yes to both, then you might be sitting heavy in the saddle and not getting any lift from your legs while you pedal to lighten the load on the saddle.

Otherwise with out more info about your measurements and your bike model and size, that's just a wild grasp at something.

I still find more padding is worse. Even for gloves and especially saddles and chamois.
No and no. I tend to ride with elbows bent, leaning forward so 35% ( a guess) is on the bars. I weigh 170 and am 6’1”. The bike is a Bianchi endurance model which is supposed to help, with tubeless tires set at 65/70 lbs. I did try a heavily padded saddle and you are right, i found it much worse. When i was super fit, I almost levitated above the seat but now I do more sitting and holding the brake hoods, or bar tops when climbing.
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Old 04-12-22, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredo76 View Post
I feel the same way about my bony-ass sit bones, myself. Maybe I need to do squats as well as stretches. Anyway, this seat really seems to fit my under-carriage:



Selle SMP TRK

I can ride comfortably for miles in the "crotch cradle", as I call it, then scoot back a little and perch on the generous pads for a change-up.

I have a Medium on a drop-bar bike, and a Large on an upright bike. The only difference seems to be about 3/8" in width at the rear.
Bought one of those too. Feels fine to me for about 20 miles but the heavy padding after that didn’t work - so I moved it to my MTB since they are much shorter rides and it works beautifully there. Thanks for the response.
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Old 04-12-22, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
That's what I use (flat) and have never had a problem with soreness anywhere. I've homed in on the Kontact saddle, and it's predecessor, the E3 Form which was sold by Performance a decade or so ago. I'm so happy with it, I stockpiled some E3's when I could get them on EBay and bike swaps for cheap and lately bought a Kontact- same saddle, different styling. The description of the design by the guy who designed it touted it's ability to avoid pressure that is normally addressed with a cutout, therefore no cutout needed. My experience is true to that.

It does have a small amount of minimal padding. I believe excessive padding will actually exacerbate pundendal type pressure because the sit bones sink into the padding and cause pressure elsewhere, thus exacerbating the need for a cutout. The Kontact/E3 design addresses that without a cutout.

But everyone has to find their own saddle. I recommend at least trying the Kontact or better yet, if you can find an E3 Form on Ebay, it will be a cheap test.
I might try that someday!

It's a thing when you needed a cutout. Unfortunately, many designers simply put a hole in the same "sloping-side" saddle design. It can still put pressure on the fleshy bits because of the sloping sides but if you make the hole bigger, it starts hurting the sitbones. Any pressure on the fleshy bits would make you feel unstable on the saddle and that's wasted energy and major cause of discomfort for constantly adjusting to a stable position.

The solution is a saddle that only slopes little to the side.
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Old 04-13-22, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
Bought one of those last year. Still can’t make up my mind about it. Very odd feeling. Will try it again.
Try sitting at it in the widest part, within the sloping upward part. Perhaps, you may tilt the saddle slightly upward if you wish to try sitting at the wide part so the upward sloping part becomes level more or less. You may also need to move the saddle all the way forward on the rail if you're doing to sit at the wide aft part.

Ignore what ISM is telling you "Don't sit at the wide part!!". It never hurts to try. For me, the wide part (slightly behind it) is the most comfortable position in the ISM saddle for me.

In practice, I either sit just slightly aft of the widest part of the ISM saddle when cruising in the flats or descending and then on the nose when climbing, especially on steep climbs.
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Old 04-13-22, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
As I have - eh, matured - I seem to have lost padding where I sit making longer rides rather uncomfortable. After 40 miles I just can’t wait to get off the seat. Sure I mix it up by standing a bit or coasting downhill with my bum slid back off the saddle but that isn’t enough to really help. I have purchased about about a grand’s worth of new seats, mostly different Selle Italia with cutouts because of gentleman issues which probably put more pressure on my sit bones. So who has had a similar issue and found a good solution that helps you ride 50+ miles comfortably? I do use good chamois shorts and my saddles do have some padding.

Any double padded shorts?
Any miracle saddle with cutout that does not have springs or feel like a sofa that have been ridden over 50 miles?
I significantly dropped my seat height. That seemed to help quite a bit with everything saddle related. I use Selle SMP:s, but I don't think your issue is really with the saddle itself.

Also comfort is relative. Don't expect to be pain free for 50 miles, that's unlikely to happen. But not constantly thinking about your bum and only noticing it occasionally is doable.

Also like it was mentioned here earlier, check you setback. I'd suggest that after lowering the seat to a level where you can pedal with your heels with absolutely no hip rocking, you push the saddle all the way forward and start inching it back in 1cm increments until you feel balanced. Of course balanced also requires a correct saddle tilt so keep it level if at all possible. You can also try the "push all the way back" -method, but I find that tends to leave you too far back. You want to be as far forward as you can be and still be well balanced. If you start at the back you'll find balance way sooner and potentially stop too far back. And having a saddle too far back has the same symptoms as having the saddle too high.
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Old 04-13-22, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
........................When i was super fit, I almost levitated above the seat but now I do more sitting and holding the brake hoods, or bar tops when climbing.
If your life is slowing down like mine and you don't get all the other activity to keep all your body in shape then exercises for all your body might help. I seem to be finding that some resistance exercise for my upper body has helped for the oddball issues that I never had before on the bike since retiring.

Though I'm not sure how to translate any of that to saddle/butt issues. Though maybe you are pushing easier gears and not getting as much lift from your legs anymore. But that's only a supposition looking for a hypothesis. <grin>
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Old 04-13-22, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
If your life is slowing down like mine and you don't get all the other activity to keep all your body in shape then exercises for all your body might help. I seem to be finding that some resistance exercise for my upper body has helped for the oddball issues that I never had before on the bike since retiring.

Though I'm not sure how to translate any of that to saddle/butt issues. Though maybe you are pushing easier gears and not getting as much lift from your legs anymore. But that's only a supposition looking for a hypothesis. <grin>
A worthy hypothesis! Yes the ‘oddball issues” have become a factor where there were none before. Am doing more core strengthening (PT exercises), massage and stretching to help left shoulder pain incurred on the bike. Recently developed a click in one knee when out of the saddle and another self inflicted injury. Am determined to not let the oddballs slow me down but find solutions, so I can keep on keeping on.
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Old 04-13-22, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
Leather saddles might be worth a try, if you haven't already. My most comfortable one is a B17, although I kind of wish I had something slightly narrower, but I don't have enough years left to live to go through more saddle break-in.
They make a B-17 Narrow saddle… Also the “imperial“ model which has a cut out that the OP wants.

I would also suggest that the OP consider Rapha Classic bib shorts or shorts… the chamous is rather thick.
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Old 04-13-22, 12:09 PM
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SMP saddles were the answer for me. They make a large number of models in each of several widths. They assume that the larger your not fat waist size, the wider the saddle. I use the narrow stratos that has standard padding. Less or firmer padding is probably not what you want.
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Old 04-13-22, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
Bought one of those last year. Still can’t make up my mind about it. Very odd feeling. Will try it again.
mine is on a fixed and i kinda feel the same way ........................................ i know a lot of ODD feeling people so i guess im OK with it
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