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Favero Assiamo Power Pedals

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Favero Assiamo Power Pedals

Old 04-13-22, 06:48 AM
  #1  
Kai Winters
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Favero Assiamo Power Pedals

Hi all,
I'm thinking of getting a pair of power meter pedals and have decided on the Favero Assiamo's but I don't know whether to buy the Duo or Uno.
I like the idea of saving around $300 by buying the Uno's...$750/Duo, $460/Uno at Amazon...yes I know I can find them a bit cheaper and may but Amazon is easier to access.
What are your thoughts and suggestions?
Thank you,
K
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Old 04-13-22, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Kai Winters View Post
What are your thoughts and suggestions?
Search for posts by Robert Chung on the advantages and disadvantages of single and double sided power meters.
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Old 04-13-22, 07:01 AM
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Pm

I chose single sided but couldnt stand not knowing what the other leg was doing!
I quickly changed to dual.
For my second PM purchase, no question, straight to dual.

Barry
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Old 04-13-22, 10:36 PM
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I'd recommend dual sided, but in the grand scheme of things it likely matters very little.

Been on Favero Assioma Duos for years now, absolutely faultless performance. Great choice.
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Old 04-14-22, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Search for posts by Robert Chung on the advantages and disadvantages of single and double sided power meters.
Almost everyone who thinks a single-sided power meter will work for them is right; almost everyone who thinks a single-sided power meter won't work for them is right.
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Old 04-15-22, 05:23 PM
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How did you come to choose the Favero over Garmin or Speedplay?

Mike
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Old 04-15-22, 07:39 PM
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What do you want to use the power meter for?

I don't do training plans, with planned power intervals. I don't care much about left-right imbalances. I'm not really tracking my season progress toward a goal, but I look at it occasionally, and I like to compare the current year progress vs previous years.

Instead, it's mostly for pacing. I know what kind of power numbers I can do for 20 seconds, 60 seconds, 4-5 minutes, 30 minutes. The 4-5 minutes are useful for some of the longer local hills. It's so useful, getting the immediate feedback from power, instead of heart rate or perceived exertion.

So I have a left side crank power meter. That gives me good enough data for pacing.

I had a 4iiii, which failed just after the 3 year warranty, and they wouldn't help me out at all. I went for 6 months during covid season without a meter, and really missed it. The left crank Stages I bought has been working great.

Originally Posted by RChung View Post
Almost everyone who thinks a single-sided power meter will work for them is right; almost everyone who thinks a single-sided power meter won't work for them is right.
Ha, that's so true.

Last edited by rm -rf; 04-15-22 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 04-15-22, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by IcySwan1 View Post
How did you come to choose the Favero over Garmin or Speedplay?

Mike
Garmin and Speedplay cost more than I want to spend
I don't want to buy 4 pair of cleats if I go Speedplay
Favero seems to have the best reviews...bikeradar, etc.
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Old 04-15-22, 11:12 PM
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Thanks, Kai. That makes sense.

Mike
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Old 04-16-22, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by RChung View Post
Almost everyone who thinks a single-sided power meter will work for them is right; almost everyone who thinks a single-sided power meter won't work for them is right.
Jives with what Ray Maker says here as well;

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/04/...rst-rides.html

But one of the things Im ever-so-slowly warming to over time and doing years of power meter accuracy testing, is that Im less convinced that on the whole power meters are as consistently accurate as people think and hope they are. And that for most people, even with slight shifting leg imbalances, I dont think its as critical an issue. ...

... Im coming to the conclusion that there are so many ways for power data to be inaccurate on any given day from any given vendor, that the left-only doubling thing probably is a wash in the end.


In general, people put far too much trust in their power meters providing day to day accuracy. Ive got great examples of super reputable units that just disagree on a random day for no reason: Quarq DZero vs Tacx NEO 2 or 2T spiking 3-5% different from any other day. Or a Favero Assioma pedal doing the same. Or a KICKR V5 doing the same. ... the industry is yet to the point where one can assume that a PR day of 5w higher or even 10w higher is a legit PR.

Im not saying single-sided is the answer for everyone, but I am saying that the vast majority of people who say single-sided is useless, would probably be surprised to find out how quietly inaccurate their power meters and trainers are day to day over months/years

I actually paid for a subscription to Rays analyzer tool to compare power from my stages and my Cycleops trainer. Conclusion? Close enough for fat, old and slow,

The truly fast guys on here can quibble over the minutiae. Ill take meh because in reality Im meh.
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Old 04-16-22, 06:22 AM
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More of a curiosity, for people who went single sided to double sided, how different was the power between legs?
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Old 04-16-22, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ChamoisDavisJr View Post
Jives with what Ray Maker says here as well;

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/04/...rst-rides.html

“But one of the things I’m ever-so-slowly warming to over time and doing years of power meter accuracy testing, is that I’m less convinced that on the whole power meters are as consistently accurate as people think and hope they are. And that for most people, even with slight shifting leg imbalances, I don’t think it’s as critical an issue. ...

... I’m coming to the conclusion that there are so many ways for power data to be inaccurate on any given day from any given vendor, that the left-only doubling thing probably is a wash in the end.


In general, people put far too much trust in their power meters providing day to day accuracy. I’ve got great examples of super reputable units that just disagree on a random day for no reason: Quarq DZero vs Tacx NEO 2 or 2T spiking 3-5% different from any other day. Or a Favero Assioma pedal doing the same. Or a KICKR V5 doing the same. ... the industry is yet to the point where one can assume that a PR day of 5w higher or even 10w higher is a legit PR.

I’m not saying single-sided is the answer for everyone, but I am saying that the vast majority of people who say single-sided is useless, would probably be surprised to find out how quietly inaccurate their power meters and trainers are day to day over months/years”

I actually paid for a subscription to Ray’s analyzer tool to compare power from my stages and my Cycleops trainer. Conclusion? Close enough for fat, old and slow,

The truly fast guys on here can quibble over the minutiae. I’ll take “meh” because in reality I’m “meh”.
That quote does not exist at the posted link. Did you incorrectly cite it, or is it a mashup, perhaps of DCR statements and/or your own ideas?

It does not meet the standard definition of a quote at this time, so clarification is appreciated.
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Old 04-16-22, 09:03 AM
  #13  
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I'm only interested in 10s power and normalised power from my PM as an idea of what I'm doing and where I am - it doesn't need to be 100% accurate and I am not bothered about dual. I have a Stages 3 on my Trek crank arm but recently got a Wahoo Speedplay single-sided pedal set for my Wilier.

I'm happy with the Wahoo pedals, as usual, Speedplay construction is very good, solid.


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Old 04-16-22, 09:40 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by pennpaul View Post
More of a curiosity, for people who went single sided to double sided, how different was the power between legs?
Here's a comparison of a left-only vs. crank spider power meter. I don't actually remember which was on which axis, but the overall difference in mean power was 4%. The rider doesn't have a particularly "unbalanced" L/R split. (This is more evidence in support of the idea that single-sidedness per se isn't always the biggest issue in inaccuracy or imprecision).



Last edited by RChung; 04-16-22 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 04-16-22, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ChamoisDavisJr View Post
Jives with what Ray Maker says here as well;

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/04/...rst-rides.html

But one of the things Im ever-so-slowly warming to over time and doing years of power meter accuracy testing, is that Im less convinced that on the whole power meters are as consistently accurate as people think and hope they are. And that for most people, even with slight shifting leg imbalances, I dont think its as critical an issue. ...

... Im coming to the conclusion that there are so many ways for power data to be inaccurate on any given day from any given vendor, that the left-only doubling thing probably is a wash in the end.


In general, people put far too much trust in their power meters providing day to day accuracy. Ive got great examples of super reputable units that just disagree on a random day for no reason: Quarq DZero vs Tacx NEO 2 or 2T spiking 3-5% different from any other day. Or a Favero Assioma pedal doing the same. Or a KICKR V5 doing the same. ... the industry is yet to the point where one can assume that a PR day of 5w higher or even 10w higher is a legit PR.

Im not saying single-sided is the answer for everyone, but I am saying that the vast majority of people who say single-sided is useless, would probably be surprised to find out how quietly inaccurate their power meters and trainers are day to day over months/years

I actually paid for a subscription to Rays analyzer tool to compare power from my stages and my Cycleops trainer. Conclusion? Close enough for fat, old and slow,

The truly fast guys on here can quibble over the minutiae. Ill take meh because in reality Im meh.
Ray can write Rorschach ink blots and people Rashomon him all the time. He's saying that there are lots of failure modes for power meters. An example is that when Stages started selling a dual-sided PM, the Shimano RHS crank they installed the strain gauges on introduced new problems. It was dual-sided, but it wasn't really an improvement. In addition, in actual use, people often think they never need to check or even calibrate their power meters. So even if you buy an "accurate" power meter, there are variations across individual units either in installation or actual use that reduce accuracy. Here's the money plot from a study of actual power meters that were in actual use on riders' own bikes.

You can see that even SRMs and PowerTaps *in actual use* aren't perfect. This is what Ray was saying.

Finally, I don't know why people say if they're slow or new to using power they don't need an accurate and precise meter. That's like saying if you're new to woodworking you don't need an accurate tape measure. You need accuracy and precision whether you're novice or expert.
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Old 04-16-22, 09:57 AM
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L/R balance

Originally Posted by pennpaul View Post
More of a curiosity, for people who went single sided to double sided, how different was the power between legs?

For me.. L / R .. 55% / 45%
But Im working on it.

Barry
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Old 04-16-22, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by RChung View Post
Ray can write Rorschach ink blots and people Rashomon him all the time. He's saying that there are lots of failure modes for power meters. An example is that when Stages started selling a dual-sided PM, the Shimano RHS crank they installed the strain gauges on introduced new problems. It was dual-sided, but it wasn't really an improvement. In addition, in actual use, people often think they never need to check or even calibrate their power meters. So even if you buy an "accurate" power meter, there are variations across individual units either in installation or actual use that reduce accuracy. Here's the money plot from a study of actual power meters that were in actual use on riders' own bikes.

You can see that even SRMs and PowerTaps *in actual use* aren't perfect. This is what Ray was saying.

Finally, I don't know why people say if they're slow or new to using power they don't need an accurate and precise meter. That's like saying if you're new to woodworking you don't need an accurate tape measure. You need accuracy and precision whether you're novice or expert.
When I say I do not care about 100% accuracy I am, of course, talking about literal accuracy, not consistent accuracy for an individual unit - where I do want the unit to be true to itself.

A PM that's consistent with itself in terms of accuracy is all I need - not whether it is actually accurate in terms of watts I produce. PM's vary from pedal, to crank, brand algorithm, calibration etc. so I'm not concerned if a PM say's I am doing 400W and that is exactly what I am really doing.

What I want/ need is a figure on any given PM to work and build from.

I know what NP I want to hit for any given ride based upon using my PM and what I log and can compare efforts to. I know what 10s power I want to be holding. It is completely irrelevant if that is 100% accurate in real terms or not; all that matters is that I am working with a PM that is consistent with it's own individual 'accuracy' - i.e. when it tells me it is 200W one day, it is not 250W under the same load the next if calibrated. So long as I can build on that 200W with confidence, it matters not a jot if that is a real 200W or 190W.

I calibrate my PM before every ride. I find using a PM a very useful tool and I work with the numbers it gives me; I'm not too bothered if I'm really doing those watts or not, I just need to see numbers get better over time.


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Old 04-16-22, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by AlgarveCycling View Post
When I say I do not care about 100% accuracy I am, of course, talking about literal accuracy, not consistent accuracy for an individual unit - where I do want the unit to be true to itself.

A PM that's consistent with itself in terms of accuracy is all I need - not whether it is actually accurate in terms of watts I produce. PM's vary from pedal, to crank, brand algorithm, calibration etc. so I'm not concerned if a PM say's I am doing 400W and that is exactly what I am really doing.

What I want/ need is a figure on any given PM to work and build from.

I know what NP I want to hit for any given ride based upon using my PM and what I log and can compare efforts to. I know what 10s power I want to be holding. It is completely irrelevant if that is 100% accurate in real terms or not; all that matters is that I am working with a PM that is consistent with it's own individual 'accuracy' - i.e. when it tells me it is 200W one day, it is not 250W under the same load the next if calibrated. So long as I can build on that 200W with confidence, it matters not a jot if that is a real 200W or 190W.

I calibrate my PM before every ride. I find using a PM a very useful tool and I work with the numbers it gives me; I'm not too bothered if I'm really doing those watts or not, I just need to see numbers get better over time.


As you can see from Fig. 3, precision or consistency varies across individual units, too. Ray's comments about individual units applies: most people don't even know how imprecise and inconsistent their power meter data are.

That said, training is all that most riders use their power data for, and training is one of the least demanding things you can do with a power meter. That's not a pejorative comment, it's just what it is. There are things you can do with power data that *do* require accuracy and precision, but not many people do them: chief among those things is drag measurement. Exactly because I'm old, fat, and slow, I need to do drag measurement and optimization: I have no other choice; otherwise, I'd just be using power data to record my decline. I do all those crazy insane anal-retentive things that most riders think are unimportant so that on good days I'm just old and fat.
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Old 04-16-22, 08:02 PM
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I have one bike with a single-sided Specialized/4iiii crank power meter, one bike with a SRAM Quarq spider power meter, a Kickr bike and an Elite Direto X. So 4 different sources of power measurement and inevitably there must be some variation between them. But whatever that variation may be I can't tell a damn difference between any of them in practical terms. They all work perfectly well for pacing efforts or following structured training plans and they seem to report power consistently enough that I can swap between them without any compensation. 250W feels like 250W on all of them. If there is a difference it's lost in the noise and of no practical consequence. The only direct comparison I've made was between my single-sided crank meter and the Direto X and the difference in power reported there was minimal.

So I would go single-sided and save the cash. I would only go dual-sided if there was some specific reason why I needed to compare my left and right power output.
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Old 04-16-22, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RChung View Post

That said, training is all that most riders use their power data for, and training is one of the least demanding things you can do with a power meter. That's not a pejorative comment, it's just what it is.
I use mine for training and pacing. As you say neither is very demanding of the power meter and doesn't require dual-sided measurement.
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Old 04-16-22, 08:12 PM
  #21  
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I've purchased a pair of the "Uno's"
Thanks for all the comments...much appreciated
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Old 04-16-22, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
I use mine for training and pacing. As you say neither is very demanding of the power meter and doesn't require dual-sided measurement.
Almost everyone who thinks a single-sided power meter will work for them is right; almost everyone who thinks a single-sided power meter won't work for them is right.
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Old 04-16-22, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
That quote does not exist at the posted link. Did you incorrectly cite it
First part of quote starts at the 5th sentence in the first paragraph under WRAP UP:

Its just below this picture;



Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
or is it a mashup
The second set of quotes are from further down in the comments as people ask for clarification. Rays replies are located at posts #28 and #30. His replies are offset in their own box to call them out.

Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
your own ideas?
Lol, Im too dumb to have my own ideas on this subject. I defer the the guy whos independently tested just about every PM on the market over the last decade.

Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
It does not meet the standard definition of a quote at this time, so clarification is appreciated.
He does very lengthy deep dives so I understand not reading the article at all, it certainly contains quite a lot of words.

Last edited by ChamoisDavisJr; 04-16-22 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 04-16-22, 11:15 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by ChamoisDavisJr View Post
The second set of quotes are from further down in the comments
Ah, I did not read the comments. Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 04-17-22, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RChung View Post
As you can see from Fig. 3, precision or consistency varies across individual units, too. Ray's comments about individual units applies: most people don't even know how imprecise and inconsistent their power meter data are.
.
Can you elaborate on your Fig. 3 chart? Eg. if I look at the Stages results. Is that 1 individual unit tested 13 different times? Or is this result of having tested 13 individual different Stages PMs?
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