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I yelled at a cyclist, today.

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I yelled at a cyclist, today.

Old 05-07-22, 11:12 AM
  #126  
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I always find it interesting to read responses and then go back to the OP. Often there are responses with lots of assumptions rather than responses to what the OP actually wrote.
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Old 05-07-22, 02:11 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by Airfehr View Post
Or shot.
That's a violation of BF posting rules.........FYI.
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Old 05-07-22, 04:16 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
Agreed, everybody has their own level of tolerance, but for those with a rational brain it's not a matter of how slow but rather if there is a reason to be doing so.


It's true that anecdotal evidence is not evidence, yet you present a fictitious situation where a cyclist stretches across a whole traffic lane stationary for no reason? Who's being silly? Glass house/throw stones and all. You might also notice that the whole point of this thread is predicated on one person's anecdotal experience.


I get tooted at sometimes, and I make every effort to stay out of the way of others (because it serves no purpose to me to hold them up needlessly, and even puts me at greater danger if I do). They still toot because they didn't see the glass, drainage grate, debris filled shoulder, etc. So who gets tooted at? People who are just trying to exist in a world filled with ignorant and selfish people.
Few straw men here.

You were using your anecdotal experience as evidence that cars do not toot at tractors and do at cyclists and this because they’re bullies. I would bet my last dollar that if the tractor behaved inconsiderately (say two driving side by side at a passing point) they would get tooted at.

I used hypothetical examples of an ever slowing cyclist as a thought experiment to demonstrate everybody will lose patience at some point. You’ve latched on a bit over zealously to the stopped cyclist.

And the OP isn’t claiming evidence of anything, just describes a situation in which he felt it appropriate to tell a cyclist off.

I’m not doubting some drivers get on the horn when they shouldn’t, when they haven’t seen the reason you’re cycling “inconsiderately”, nor that some drivers, like some cyclists, are simply just knobs.

But the OP describes a situation in which a cyclist was unnecessarily inconveniencing others and was right to tell him off.
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Old 05-07-22, 04:19 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Kedosto View Post
Once again, the usual BF Opinion Police are in full force.
Really? Because I'm seeing a bunch of people playing cops to enforce their version of courtesy on the road.

I don't care whether the cyclist is right or wrong. Honking and yelling out of your car window is also wrong, and last time I checked, two wrongs still don't make a right.
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Old 05-07-22, 04:25 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
I can only comment on where I ride and, to some extent, cyclists in my club. Based on that, in my world, for every idiot car driver there is an idiot cyclist. And, both are uncommon. It's not that big a problem where I live and ride.

Given the massive imbalance between the numbers of drivers and the numbers of cyclists, I don't think there's any way that could possibly be true. I agree that the large majority of drivers are pretty good, but encountering scary bad ones is not an unusual occurrence in my neck of the woods. I was almost hit by one this morning.
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Old 05-07-22, 04:34 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Cramic View Post
Few straw men here.

You were using your anecdotal experience as evidence that cars do not toot at tractors and do at cyclists and this because they’re bullies. I would bet my last dollar that if the tractor behaved inconsiderately (say two driving side by side at a passing point) they would get tooted at.

I used hypothetical examples of an ever slowing cyclist as a thought experiment to demonstrate everybody will lose patience at some point. You’ve latched on a bit over zealously to the stopped cyclist.

And the OP isn’t claiming evidence of anything, just describes a situation in which he felt it appropriate to tell a cyclist off.

I’m not doubting some drivers get on the horn when they shouldn’t, when they haven’t seen the reason you’re cycling “inconsiderately”, nor that some drivers, like some cyclists, are simply just knobs.

But the OP describes a situation in which a cyclist was unnecessarily inconveniencing others and was right to tell him off.

Look, at least an anecdote actually happened. So if anecdotes aren't evidence, what the hell are hypothetical reactions to hypothetical situations? At best, that's your guess at how an anecdote will turn out if it actually occurred. You can dress that up as a "thought experiment", but all you're doing is making non-testable claims about how we'd react.

And OP was an anecdote, too. So they only count when you like them?

I'll remind you of the old joke that the plural of anecdote is data.
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Old 05-07-22, 04:42 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by Cramic View Post
You were using your anecdotal experience as evidence that cars do not toot at tractors and do at cyclists and this because they’re bullies. I would bet my last dollar that if the tractor behaved inconsiderately (say two driving side by side at a passing point) they would get tooted at.

I used hypothetical examples of an ever slowing cyclist as a thought experiment to demonstrate everybody will lose patience at some point. You’ve latched on a bit over zealously to the stopped cyclist.

And the OP isn’t claiming evidence of anything, just describes a situation in which he felt it appropriate to tell a cyclist off.

I’m not doubting some drivers get on the horn when they shouldn’t, when they haven’t seen the reason you’re cycling “inconsiderately”, nor that some drivers, like some cyclists, are simply just knobs.

But the OP describes a situation in which a cyclist was unnecessarily inconveniencing others and was right to tell him off.
I get your strawman and anecdotal argument, but still feel that you're taking the OP's word that the cyclist was doing something wrong for granted. Like I mentioned, too many people just assume that the person holding them up or blocking their path is doing so for some cartoonish nefarious reason. Just as many cyclists seem to think cars almost hitting them are somehow playing some kind of real life GTA game. It just isn't logical than any more than a few outlying punks would do such a thing. Is it not possible (or even probable) that the OP just didn't see the reason the cyclist wasn't all the way over?
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Old 05-07-22, 04:44 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Cramic View Post
I used hypothetical examples of an ever slowing cyclist as a thought experiment to demonstrate everybody will lose patience at some point.
As I mentioned before, I would come to a complete stop and only lose patience if it were abundantly clear that the cyclist was doing it for absolutely no good reason. Since most of the time I can not determine for sure before the cyclist starts moving again, I shrug my shoulders and continue on my way a few seconds later than I was before. And for what it's worth, I would definitely not call myself the most zen cyclist out there.
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Old 05-07-22, 04:54 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
I agree that there are certain situations where it's necessary and safer for a cyclist to take a lane but that's not what we are discussing here...We're talking about cyclists who take a lane and impede traffic simply because they have a big ego and are trying to prove their rights. It's almost as if their ride is a protest against all the drivers.
As far as I'm concerned, we're talking about a driver who assumes they know why the cyclist was taking the lane and responded aggressively instead of actually asking the cyclist why they were doing it.
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Old 05-07-22, 05:05 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
I get your strawman and anecdotal argument, but still feel that you're taking the OP's word that the cyclist was doing something wrong for granted. Like I mentioned, too many people just assume that the person holding them up or blocking their path is doing so for some cartoonish nefarious reason. Just as many cyclists seem to think cars almost hitting them are somehow playing some kind of real life GTA game. It just isn't logical than any more than a few outlying punks would do such a thing. Is it not possible (or even probable) that the OP just didn't see the reason the cyclist wasn't all the way over?
Fair enough and I agree that oftentimes people might get others’ intentions completely wrong.

In this instance I’ve simply taken the OP at face value and agreed that in that situation he was right to have a word with the cyclist. It is certainly possible the cyclist had a valid reason to be holding up traffic though and the OP might have been in the wrong, but we weren’t there.

And I don’t think people behaving inconsiderately are doing so necessarily nefariously, but there are many who are entitled or self absorbed.
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Old 05-07-22, 05:09 PM
  #136  
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I've been yelled at by drivers when cycling on the road, and I've been yelled at by cyclists when driving a tractor on the road. Neither drivers nor cyclists seem to have cornered the market on sainthood.
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Old 05-07-22, 05:20 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
You should describe this situation a little more fully, because I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario, like this, where a seasoned cyclist doesn't take the lane and where you don't come out being the bigger jerk.
No worries, I have you blocked. Imagine that.
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Old 05-07-22, 05:24 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I've been yelled at by drivers when cycling on the road, and I've been yelled at by cyclists when driving a tractor on the road. Neither drivers nor cyclists seem to have cornered the market on sainthood.
That is something someone kind of touched on earlier in this thread. I am morbidly amused at how many people I ride with who will get angry with a motorist for punish passing or otherwise endangering them... then close pass a pedestrian or cut off a car because they can't be bothered to slow down on a path or come to a stop at an octagonal sign.
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Old 05-07-22, 05:26 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
No worries, I have you blocked. Imagine that.
Well I guess that's one way to convince yourself that you're right.

Seriously though, a windy descent sounds like a place where a car shouldn't try to overtake a cyclist in the first place. Maybe they were riding two abreast to try and discourage such dangerous driving. Like WhyFi, I'm open to hearing more details to see if maybe we're misunderstanding you, but feel free to block me too if you feel that's more productive than civil discourse.
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Old 05-07-22, 05:32 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
No worries, I have you blocked. Imagine that.
Oh no. What ever will I do? I've been blocked(?) by someone that doesn't know how to ride a bike on a road. Woe is me.

Since you don't seem to recall the event well to describe how, why and the extent to which you were inconvenienced, you could simply give us the location of where it transpired. Should be pretty simple to look at the speed limit, road/shoulder conditions, sightlines through the winding curves, and typical descent times on bicycle. My bet is that is that the difference between them riding one up vs two up isn't enough to make it reliably safe for vehicles to pass and that the delta between bicycle descent times vs the speed limit, over this one mile downhill stretch, is well less than 60 seconds. But who knows - maybe you'll be vindicated for raging at them.
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Old 05-07-22, 05:40 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Really? Because I'm seeing a bunch of people playing cops to enforce their version of courtesy on the road.

I don't care whether the cyclist is right or wrong. Honking and yelling out of your car window is also wrong, and last time I checked, two wrongs still don't make a right.
I didn’t mention you. That you feel the need to get defensive about my post speaks volumes. Whether you care about the cyclist or not is irrelevant to my post. Honking and yelling out of the car window may or may not have been the wrong thing to do, but since neither one of us was there, praising or condemning the action is nothing more than ignorant speculation. Inserting one’s own biases or experiences isn’t a substitute for the facts of what actually occurred. I agree with you that “two wrongs still don’t make a right,” but you were the one who assumed OP was wrong. I assumed nothing. I don’t know the facts. Neither do you.
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Old 05-07-22, 05:52 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Kedosto View Post
I didn’t mention you. That you feel the need to get defensive about my post speaks volumes. Whether you care about the cyclist or not is irrelevant to my post. Honking and yelling out of the car window may or may not have been the wrong thing to do, but since neither one of us was there, praising or condemning the action is nothing more than ignorant speculation. Inserting one’s own biases or experiences isn’t a substitute for the facts of what actually occurred. I agree with you that “two wrongs still don’t make a right,” but you were the one who assumed OP was wrong. I assumed nothing. I don’t know the facts. Neither do you.

I took the "facts" directly from the OP's post and assumed they were as he described them. I engaged in no speculation, and I think he was wrong to act as he did. I also think his stated rationale that yelling at the guy was about safety because drivers his actions are angering will somehow take it out on other cyclists is palpable, convoluted bs.

If he didn't want other people to express their opinions on the facts as he stated them, then he shouldn't have posted. And to call commenting on them "ignorant speculation" just demonstrates that you are ignorant of the meaning of the words "ignorant" and "speculation".

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Old 05-07-22, 06:06 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
This is just my experience, but I make a habit of counting seconds any time I'm stuck behind a cyclist. Haven't reached 30 yet. Can't say I've ever encountered a cyclist stationary in a travel lane without reason.

On a road trip last year, I found myself behind a short row of cars stuck behind a tractor, three times. Not one of the cars honked, nor did they pass dangerously close. Amazing how they seem to have patience for the larger vehicle, but not the smaller one. Almost like... bullying.
Oh, crap...... NOW what do we do?

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Old 05-07-22, 06:07 PM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Airfehr View Post
Taking a bike lock to a car fight sounds like a good way to get run over. Or shot.

Fun thread where the OP calls out a cyclist for being an ass and the major response is the OP was in a cage and therefor impatient and rude.

Here is an example of a group of cyclists exercising their right to use up a 50 mph roadway. I bike here frequently. I'd say they have an elitist attitude by having no consideration for those they share the road with. I would give them a honk. The same way I would ring my bell to a group of pedestrians blocking the MUP. Most cases people have no situational awareness.
that’s a national championship jersey on the left is it not? Show some respect. Those riders are going at their limit and passing each other all the time, if they stayed in the shoulder riders would drift out into the road in order to pass. They’re probably tearing each other’s legs off and looking to make sure there isn’t a car passing is not always feasible in those situations. The car can go over the double yellow to pass when it is safe.

A honk is not similar to a bicycle bell, a bell is a friendly greeting. You should never pass a cyclist close enough that you need to give them notice that you are there.
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Old 05-07-22, 06:08 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
You should describe this situation a little more fully, because I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario, like this, where a seasoned cyclist doesn't take the lane and where you don't come out being the bigger jerk.
The scenario is illegal in my state. Single file. Two up if there is NO traffic behind is ok.

Imagine that.

Imagine my opinion. Two up holding up traffic is total jerkoff territory in my opinion.
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Old 05-07-22, 06:18 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
The scenario is illegal in my state. Single file. Two up if there is NO traffic behind is ok.

Imagine that.

Imagine my opinion. Two up holding up traffic is total jerkoff territory in my opinion.
That there's legislation against two-up riding in some bass akwards states doesn't mean that it's two-up riding isn't the best option, for both cyclists and drivers, in many scenarios. If a lane isn't wide enough to safely accommodate both a cyclist and a vehicle at the same time, two-up is no different than one-up... except that it's actually beneficial to the drivers because it halves the length of the group, making for a shorter pass.
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Old 05-07-22, 06:23 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
That there's legislation against two-up riding in some bass akwards states doesn't mean that it's two-up riding isn't the best option, for both cyclists and drivers, in many scenarios. If a lane isn't wide enough to safely accommodate both a cyclist and a vehicle at the same time, two-up is no different than one-up... except that it's actually beneficial to the drivers because it halves the length of the group, making for a shorter pass.
Laws in my state disagree with you as do I as do the many motorists that you probably anger. So, you are wrong within the context of where I live.......that is for sure. That half the distance is BS. A bike is 40 inches long. You are wrong in your view and also why motorists hate us.
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Old 05-07-22, 06:26 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Laws in my state disagree with you as do I as do the many motorists that you probably anger. So, you are wrong within the context of where I live.......that is for sure. That half the distance is BS. A bike is 40 inches long. You are wrong in your view and also why motorists hate us.
Awesome rebuttal.
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Old 05-07-22, 06:39 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
that’s a national championship jersey on the left is it not? Show some respect. Those riders are going at their limit and passing each other all the time, if they stayed in the shoulder riders would drift out into the road in order to pass. They’re probably tearing each other’s legs off and looking to make sure there isn’t a car passing is not always feasible in those situations. The car can go over the double yellow to pass when it is safe.

A honk is not similar to a bicycle bell, a bell is a friendly greeting. You should never pass a cyclist close enough that you need to give them notice that you are there.
Hahahahahaha. So you think the guy on the left is passing the group riding four abreast. I see a group riding five abreast. Or is it a group riding three abreast passing a pair. If they were going their limit wouldn't they be drafting.

BTW my bicycle bell tends to scare pedestrians who are taken by surprise. I try my best no to do that. But just like the group of riders in the pic people tend to be lost in their own world with no concern to what is going on around them.
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Old 05-07-22, 06:59 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I took the "facts" directly from the OP's post and assumed they were as he described them. I engaged in no speculation, and I think he was wrong to act as he did. I also think his stated rationale that yelling at the guy was about safety because drivers his actions are angering will somehow take it out on other cyclists is palpable, convoluted bs.

If he didn't want other people to express their opinions on the facts as he stated them, then he shouldn't have posted. And to call commenting on them "ignorant speculation" just demonstrates that you are ignorant of the meaning of the words "ignorant" and "speculation".
Well, it’s apparent my initial post struck a nerve. Only you know whether or not the shoe fits.

Everyone posting in this thread (other than OP) is ignorant of the facts of the event as it occurred, you included. It’s entirely possible the whole story was fabricated. Offering opinion without knowledge of the facts is the very definition of speculation.
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