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fearing the slow good bye to rim brake bikes

Old 06-08-22, 01:09 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by AlgarveCycling View Post
That's not from Giro 2022 - the kit is old for all those teams. It looks like Giro 2013 or thereabouts.



Youre probably right --

There is a current rider who is on my Instagram feed somewhere, and i noted his race machine had rim brakes still - but dont know which team . Regardless, fairly sure the OP will be fine either way
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Old 06-08-22, 02:04 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Yes, perspective... Most new road cyclists come from a MTB background, so 18 pounds is feathery. Coming from a road background, 18 pounds is heavy – uncompetitive heavy. I suppose bike weight doesn’t matter that much if you’re cruising to the coffee shop, but when you are suffering with the fast crowd, bike weight, particularly wheel weight is critical. If you lose contact with the wheel in front of you accelerating out of a corner, or up a climb, you’re toast: suffering far more for miles solo trying to catch up.

Why do disc-compatible wheels weight so much? On disc wheels, braking forces are transmitted from the ground through the spokes to the rotors/calipers then through the fork and then to the rest of the mass on the bike.

In contrast, on rim brake wheels, forces are transmitted from the ground circumferentially through the rim to the brake calipers. And from there to the fork crown to the rest of the bike. Forces transmitted through the fork and spokes are much lower, which means they both can be built lighter.

BTW: the need to bulk up the fork and frame to handle disc-generated forces is a key reason why these are so harsh and dead feeling. I suppose this is a motivation for fatter tires, which then further adds a bunch of weight and rolling resistance.
Rim-brake specific wheel rims are in fact heavier for obvious reasons, but the hubs are lighter. Overall wheel weight is usually within a few grams. Lighter wheel rims are more efficient, so that's a win for disc-specific wheels.

A stiffer fork does not make a bike "harsh and dead feeling". Not to mention those are contradictory qualities.

Your statement about most new road cyclists coming from an MTB background is absurd!
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Old 06-08-22, 02:05 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
Just typed in "2022 Giro" in the search bar and pulled up a few pics showing that rim breaks are still relevant. If you want to sell your bike and get a newer disc break model, by all means do so though. They work wonderfully.



Epic fail on all counts.
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Old 06-08-22, 02:15 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Epic fail on all counts.
Why do you take issue with a picture from the TDF back in 2011 being used to describe the 2022 Giro?
You and your standards!
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Old 06-08-22, 02:22 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Why do you take issue with a picture from the TDF back in 2011 being used to describe the 2022 Giro?
You and your standards!
For good measure he called them breaks twice too. But to be fair he did at least acknowledge that disc brakes do work wonderfully.
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Old 06-08-22, 02:47 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Rim-brake specific wheel rims are in fact heavier for obvious reasons, but the hubs are lighter. Overall wheel weight is usually within a few grams. Lighter wheel rims are more efficient, so that's a win for disc-specific wheels.
? Actually rim-brake specific wheels are easily 100 grams lighter. Compare the specs for Campagnolo/Fulcrum wheels, which has about the best engineering/QC control of anyone, and rim and disc-brake versions for each of their popular wheel lines. As far as the rims (just the rims) for disc wheels being lighter, I don't see it. A big rim maker such as Alex, who makes rims for several wheel companies, seems to make alu rims about the same weights for both. Alu rims bottom out at about 400g, with no weight discount for disc-specific versions.

Theoretically, I could see how clincher rims would need to be bulked up for rim brakes, due to the compressive forces applied to the braking surfaces. Particularly when you factor in rim wear. However, since all high-level competitive riding is done on tubulars (past, present and forever), and since rim braking forces on tubular rims do not crush the clincher rim hooks, compressive brake forces here are nearly not as much of a problem. BTW: the inherent and insurmountable advantage of tubular rims will save you another 200 grams per wheelset. Check the published specs.

BTW: rims take years if not decades to wear, an overstated benefit of discs. When they do wear out, it takes about an hour and a couple of beers to transfer a new rim over to the old hub/spokes including truing/tensioning.
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Old 06-08-22, 03:02 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Half of your posts read like a caveman typed em out.
Why/how is 'newer just better'? I have ridden newer disc brake bikes that I like a lot and ones I dislike. Newer is not inherently better.
says the guy with a caveman like tattoo.
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Old 06-08-22, 03:10 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by spelger View Post
says the guy with a caveman like tattoo.
ha, touche!
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Old 06-08-22, 03:27 PM
  #109  
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As noted that's not the 2022 Giro. For the 2022 Giro all the team bikes are disc brake. That last ones that stayed mostly on rim brake was Ineo with their Dogmas. However they switched to disc brakes for PR last year and have not gone back to rim. There are probably one off's on the World Tour, perhaps a rider wants rim brake's for a certain stage but for the most part it's all hot lazer bladed spinning discs of death and doom for stopping on the world tour from here on out.

I pointed out the fact that all the world tour riders are on disc brakes to my wife and said I cannot possibly be expected to stop on such barbaric old technology on my current bike with it's rim brakes. She said "you might as well get a bike with electronic shifting too" then proceeded to laugh hysterically.

I'll swing my leg over my 2016 rim brake cannondale tomorrow on the way to work. Maybe I'll just stick my foot behind the front tire and fork to stop?
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Old 06-08-22, 03:55 PM
  #110  
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While I agree your rim brake bikes won't stop working because disc brakes exist but there won't be much development put into rim brake anything. There won't be many if any rim/cable groupsets made in a couple years, the next to fall will be quality light weight rims, and the last to fall will be rim brake hubs if road bikes are your thing. If those aren't your thing then I think you have many more years of use since trekking/touring/entry level mountain bikes are still being made with rim brakes.

The whole thing is kinda meh I have a couple new rim brake bikes that I'll be keeping for as long as possible I'll worry about the future in the future
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Old 06-08-22, 04:22 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Epic fail on all counts.

Meh …. Big deal. I typed in 2022 Giro and it spit this out among others.
I’m not such an adoring fan that I have everyone’s “kit” memorized.

This guy still has rim breaks and that pic appears pretty current


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Old 06-08-22, 05:15 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
Bro...come on buddy....again try the square breathing...think positive....no need for neg. judgemental comments to strangers...all good.

lake life....so relaxing..

I'm loving this. You can wind him up for a month just by posting pretty pictures, all to defend his lame typo-flame.

Nice bike, pretty lake. Good place for a coffee brake.
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Old 06-08-22, 05:23 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Sometimes, you have to draw a line in the sand ...
Or in the snow by the fire hydrant.
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Old 06-08-22, 05:30 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse View Post
Your write

The absense of truely properlie speled werds is a disasterous prezidence witch oui can't not abyde bi
Attribute your quotes.

Don't plagiarize Chaucer!
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Old 06-08-22, 05:44 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
? Actually rim-brake specific wheels are easily 100 grams lighter. Compare the specs for Campagnolo/Fulcrum wheels, which has about the best engineering/QC control of anyone, and rim and disc-brake versions for each of their popular wheel lines. .
Okay, let's do that ... only one of five Campy wheels that are available in both rim and disc meet your claim of "rim brake versions are easily 100g lighter."

Bora WTO 33: Rim 1395g, Disc 1485g (diff = 90g)
Bora WTO 45: Rim 1496g, Disc 1520g (diff = 24g)
Bora WTO 60: Rim 1547g, Disc 1590g (diff = 43g)
Zonda: Rim 1540g, Disc 1675g (diff = 135g)
Scirocco: Rim 1755g, Disc 1739g (diff = -16g)
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Old 06-08-22, 05:45 PM
  #116  
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What's a little data compared to an oft-repeated feel-good claim?
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Old 06-08-22, 06:30 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Being objective, the overall increase in weight with disc brakes is only a couple of hundred grams. It certainly isn't 2 lbs. Disc specific wheel rims are actually lighter by the way, which offsets a bit of extra hub/spoke weight. As for frame and fork weight, it's a wash. The fork is a little heavier, but there are savings around the frame where rim brakes would have been mounted.

For sure if you are an obsessive weight weenie then you could build a slightly lighter rim braked bike and save some cash. But there are plenty of other reasons to choose disc brakes - like actual braking performance and consistency!

As for 32 mm GP5000 tyres slowing you down on pavement. The same tyres that have won Paris Roubaix. Maybe try the 28 or 30 mm versions next time?
The sentiment I think comes from looking at yesteryear vs. today, with the argument being that if a manufacturer still sells a rim brake version today, they've simply beefed it up unnecessarily to make it look comparable to the disc brake version.

Take a 2015 Emonda SL5, -- reviews say it came in a bit under 18 lbs for this 105 equipped bike. Today, Trek's site says an SL5 disc bike is a bit over 20 lbs still comes with 105. 7yrs of progress.
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Old 06-08-22, 06:51 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
The sentiment I think comes from looking at yesteryear vs. today, with the argument being that if a manufacturer still sells a rim brake version today, they've simply beefed it up unnecessarily to make it look comparable to the disc brake version.

Take a 2015 Emonda SL5, -- reviews say it came in a bit under 18 lbs for this 105 equipped bike. Today, Trek's site says an SL5 disc bike is a bit over 20 lbs still comes with 105. 7yrs of progress.
The weight was trending upwards long before disc brakes made their appearance:

2016 Emonda SL5: 17.1 lbs. (rim brakes)
2017 Emonda SL5: 17.2 lbs, (rim brakes)
2018 Emonda SL5: 18.5 lbs, (rim brakes)
2019 Emonda SL5: 19.1 lbs, (rim brakes)
2020 Emonda SL5: 19.8 lbs. (disc brakes)
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Old 06-08-22, 06:53 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
The weight was trending upwards long before disc brakes made their appearance:

2016 Emonda SL5: 17.1 lbs. (rim brakes)
2017 Emonda SL5: 17.2 lbs, (rim brakes)
2018 Emonda SL5: 18.5 lbs, (rim brakes)
2019 Emonda SL5: 19.1 lbs, (rim brakes)
2020 Emonda SL5: 19.8 lbs. (disc brakes)
Trek ain't stoopid.. They've been working a while on making the transition to disc seem inconsequential.
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Old 06-08-22, 07:04 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I'm loving this. You can wind him up for a month just by posting pretty pictures, all to defend his lame typo-flame.

Nice bike, pretty lake. Good place for a coffee brake.
yes....lake living is nice..Private lake. Great roads.
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Old 06-08-22, 09:47 PM
  #121  
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Getting sued a few times for asploding too light bikes would make them reconsider things.
Or maybe it wasn't an advantage afterall.
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Old 06-08-22, 10:41 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Attribute your quotes.

Don't plagiarize Chaucer!
I'm relatively sure this is a compliment.

Thank you!
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Old 06-09-22, 03:18 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
The sentiment I think comes from looking at yesteryear vs. today, with the argument being that if a manufacturer still sells a rim brake version today, they've simply beefed it up unnecessarily to make it look comparable to the disc brake version.

Take a 2015 Emonda SL5, -- reviews say it came in a bit under 18 lbs for this 105 equipped bike. Today, Trek's site says an SL5 disc bike is a bit over 20 lbs still comes with 105. 7yrs of progress.
I guess so, but the weight gain is not all about disc brakes, which account for very little of the overall gain. The current Emonda is more aero and probably stiffer in all the right places. If weight is a major priority then you have to look at the more expensive variants. The SL7 is 17.5 lbs and the SLR9 14.8 lbs.
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Old 06-09-22, 03:33 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
? Actually rim-brake specific wheels are easily 100 grams lighter. Compare the specs for Campagnolo/Fulcrum wheels, which has about the best engineering/QC control of anyone, and rim and disc-brake versions for each of their popular wheel lines. As far as the rims (just the rims) for disc wheels being lighter, I don't see it. A big rim maker such as Alex, who makes rims for several wheel companies, seems to make alu rims about the same weights for both. Alu rims bottom out at about 400g, with no weight discount for disc-specific versions.

Theoretically, I could see how clincher rims would need to be bulked up for rim brakes, due to the compressive forces applied to the braking surfaces. Particularly when you factor in rim wear. However, since all high-level competitive riding is done on tubulars (past, present and forever), and since rim braking forces on tubular rims do not crush the clincher rim hooks, compressive brake forces here are nearly not as much of a problem. BTW: the inherent and insurmountable advantage of tubular rims will save you another 200 grams per wheelset. Check the published specs.

BTW: rims take years if not decades to wear, an overstated benefit of discs. When they do wear out, it takes about an hour and a couple of beers to transfer a new rim over to the old hub/spokes including truing/tensioning.
If the rims are specifically engineered as disc specific, then they are going to be lighter. For example the latest DT Swiss wheels:-

DT Swiss PRC 1400: Disc version: Front 650g, Rear 794g. Non-Disc version: Front 658g, Rear 828g
So I make that 42g lighter for the Disc version.

But the point here is that disc-brake specific wheels are not inherently heavy as you were asserting earlier.
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Old 06-09-22, 03:49 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
Meh …. Big deal. I typed in 2022 Giro and it spit this out among others.
I’m not such an adoring fan that I have everyone’s “kit” memorized.

This guy still has rim breaks and that pic appears pretty current
I can tell you haven't been paying attention. BRAKES!

Yes Pogacar (the guy in the photo) does still occasionally use rim brakes. Not very often though. I think he used them in a handful of the dry mountain stages in the TDF last year. I believe their Colnago couldn't quite get down to the UCI weight minimum on the disc version (talking about a couple of hundred grams here).
Pinarello also still had a rim-braked version of their bike available. But I think they've abandoned it this season (correct me if I'm wrong as I haven't fact checked it).
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