Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

fearing the slow good bye to rim brake bikes

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

fearing the slow good bye to rim brake bikes

Old 06-19-22, 09:29 AM
  #201  
Jeff Neese
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 745
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked 273 Times in 184 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Disc brakes are superior. Pickup trucks only put drum brakes on the rear because they're a lot cheaper.
And just as a reminder, rim brakes ARE disk brakes. There are very few bicycles with drum brakes.
Jeff Neese is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 09:29 AM
  #202  
mtbikerjohn 
Full Member
 
mtbikerjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: near Detroit
Posts: 225

Bikes: a few..

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by Sonofamechanic View Post

Agreed….coal and potatoes…not a particularly ‘combustible cocktail’. …and all caused by brake/break failure….so we’ve come full circle…
They still run the 473 engine..
mtbikerjohn is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 09:32 AM
  #203  
mtbikerjohn 
Full Member
 
mtbikerjohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: near Detroit
Posts: 225

Bikes: a few..

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Time for a reality check — that would have been a bigger blast than the Hiroshima bomb.
Would have definitely taken out the down town area of town...and the depot,roundhouse,car shop,museum..my old house..yikes!
mtbikerjohn is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 09:34 AM
  #204  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,565

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2251 Post(s)
Liked 3,890 Times in 1,573 Posts
Originally Posted by Jeff Neese View Post
And just as a reminder, rim brakes ARE disk brakes.
Everyone knows what rim brakes are. Everyone knows what disc brakes are. Good luck with your campaign to re-define the terms that everyone presently uses and understands.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 09:36 AM
  #205  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,565

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2251 Post(s)
Liked 3,890 Times in 1,573 Posts
Originally Posted by mtbikerjohn View Post
Would have definitely taken out the down town area of town...and the depot,roundhouse,car shop,museum..my old house..yikes!
Still not reality.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:02 AM
  #206  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 1,785

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Super Corsa

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1045 Post(s)
Liked 768 Times in 504 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Time for a reality check — that would have been a bigger blast than the Hiroshima bomb.
Not really.
smd4 is offline  
Likes For smd4:
Old 06-19-22, 10:17 AM
  #207  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,565

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2251 Post(s)
Liked 3,890 Times in 1,573 Posts
Originally Posted by mtbikerjohn
Fortunately,the engine didn't explode or it would have leveled pretty much half of Durango.

Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Time for a reality check — that would have been a bigger blast than the Hiroshima bomb.
Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
Not really.
The blast radius of the Hiroshima bomb was about 1 mile, i.e the bomb leveled about 3 square miles of the city. The town of Durango is about 17 square miles. Do the math.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:29 AM
  #208  
Jeff Neese
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 745
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked 273 Times in 184 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Everyone knows what rim brakes are. Everyone knows what disc brakes are. Good luck with your campaign to re-define the terms that everyone presently uses and understands.
I'm not sure that's actually true. A lot of people talk about disk brakes as though they're a completely different type of brakes, and are somehow "better". In their mind they are comparing disk brakes to drum brakes (like on a car). In fact, rim brakes are disk brakes that simply use the rim as the rotor.
Jeff Neese is offline  
Likes For Jeff Neese:
Old 06-19-22, 10:31 AM
  #209  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 1,785

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Super Corsa

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1045 Post(s)
Liked 768 Times in 504 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post


The blast radius of the Hiroshima bomb was about 1 mile, i.e the bomb leveled about 3 square miles of the city. The town of Durango is about 17 square miles. Do the math.
I misunderstood what you wrote, which seemed to suggest a boiler explosion would be bigger than the Hiroshima blast. You are correct. A boiler explosion would not be nearly as large.
smd4 is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:38 AM
  #210  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,585
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1706 Post(s)
Liked 1,838 Times in 1,169 Posts
Originally Posted by Jeff Neese View Post
I'm not sure that's actually true. A lot of people talk about disk brakes as though they're a completely different type of brakes, and are somehow "better". In their mind they are comparing disk brakes to drum brakes (like on a car). In fact, rim brakes are disk brakes that simply use the rim as the rotor.
I don't think people are thinking what you think they are thinking.
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:39 AM
  #211  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,565

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2251 Post(s)
Liked 3,890 Times in 1,573 Posts
Originally Posted by Jeff Neese View Post
I'm not sure that's actually true. A lot of people talk about disk brakes as though they're a completely different type of brakes, and are somehow "better". In their mind they are comparing disk brakes to drum brakes (like on a car). In fact, rim brakes are disk brakes that simply use the rim as the rotor.
I don't know why this pointless statement gets repeated so often. People understand that "rim brakes" refer to one type of brake, and "disc brakes" referent to another type of brake. No one ever points to rim brakes and says "those are disc brakes." What purpose does it serve to call them both disc brakes, when everyone uses and understands the present terminology?
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:40 AM
  #212  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,585
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1706 Post(s)
Liked 1,838 Times in 1,169 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
I misunderstood what you wrote, which seemed to suggest a boiler explosion would be bigger than the Hiroshima blast. You are correct. A boiler explosion would not be nearly as large.
You learn something new every day. Today I learnt that a boiler explosion would not be nearly as large as a nuclear bomb blast. Amazing!
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:41 AM
  #213  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 1,785

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Super Corsa

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1045 Post(s)
Liked 768 Times in 504 Posts
From now on I’m calling my rim a “rotor!”
smd4 is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:42 AM
  #214  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 1,785

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Super Corsa

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1045 Post(s)
Liked 768 Times in 504 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
You learn something new every day. Today I learnt that a boiler explosion would not be nearly as large as a nuclear bomb blast. Amazing!
You’d be surprised at what people think about boiler explosions.

In fact, it’s been said that the energy stored as steam is second only to nuclear energy.
smd4 is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:45 AM
  #215  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,585
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1706 Post(s)
Liked 1,838 Times in 1,169 Posts
Originally Posted by smd4 View Post
You’d be surprised at what people think about boiler explosions.
I'd certainly be surprised if they considered them in the same league as a nuclear blast. But having been on these forums for a while.....
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:46 AM
  #216  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,565

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2251 Post(s)
Liked 3,890 Times in 1,573 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
You learn something new every day. Today I learnt that a boiler explosion would not be nearly as large as a nuclear bomb blast. Amazing!
It's a little known fact that the U.S. originally planned to drop a steam locomotive on Nagasaki.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:48 AM
  #217  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,585
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1706 Post(s)
Liked 1,838 Times in 1,169 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
It's a little known fact that the U.S. originally planned to drop a steam locomotive on Nagasaki.
There goes my coffee! Class post
PeteHski is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:49 AM
  #218  
_ForceD_
Senior Member on Sr bikes
 
_ForceD_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,909

Bikes: Several...from old junk to new all-carbon.

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 831 Post(s)
Liked 515 Times in 283 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Disc brakes are superior.
This isn’t meant to be derogatory, but when you (and/or other disc brake users) state that “disc brakes are superior”…how exactly do you mean they’re superior? What makes them better? My rim brakes are perfectly capable of stopping my bike. I can lock up my wheels, at which point my bike’s ability to come to a complete stop resides in the amount of tire that is in contact with the ground. That ground contact would be the same with disc brakes. A locked up wheel with disc brakes isn’t going to come to a stop any quicker than one with rim brakes. I mean I’ve thought about it a lot, and the only conditions I can think of where disc brakes would be better are: regular long mountainous descents where that brakes have to be applied for long periods; extreme wet conditions; any sort of off-road cycling (mountain bike, cyclocross) where conditions are wet and muddy, or snow and ice.

Dan
_ForceD_ is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 10:52 AM
  #219  
PeteHski
Senior Member
 
PeteHski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 3,585
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1706 Post(s)
Liked 1,838 Times in 1,169 Posts
Originally Posted by _ForceD_ View Post
This isn’t meant to be derogatory, but when you (and/or other disc brake users) state that “disc brakes are superior”…how exactly do you mean they’re superior? What makes them better? My rim brakes are perfectly capable of stopping my bike. I can lock up my wheels, at which point my bike’s ability to come to a complete stop resides in the amount of tire that is in contact with the ground. That ground contact would be the same with disc brakes. A locked up wheel with disc brakes isn’t going to come to a stop any quicker than one with rim brakes. I mean I’ve thought about it a lot, and the only conditions I can think of where disc brakes would be better are: regular long mountainous descents where that brakes have to be applied for long periods; extreme wet conditions; any sort of off-road cycling (mountain bike, cyclocross) where conditions are wet and muddy, or snow and ice.

Dan
Better and more consistent modulation and one finger operation.
PeteHski is offline  
Likes For PeteHski:
Old 06-19-22, 10:55 AM
  #220  
smd4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 1,785

Bikes: 1989 Cinelli Super Corsa

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1045 Post(s)
Liked 768 Times in 504 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Better and more consistent modulation and one finger operation.
I’ve got “one finger operation” from my rim brakes. Even from the hoods.
smd4 is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 11:01 AM
  #221  
t2p
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2022
Location: USA
Posts: 717

Bikes: Cannondale - Gary Fisher - Litespeed - Schwinn Paramount - Schwinn (lugged steel) - Trek OCLV

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Liked 256 Times in 179 Posts
I like rim brakes - more than capable / sufficient for many if not majority of bikes / applications

rim brakes are simple - less hassle - and can weigh less

however - a top quality disc brake system is superior to a rim brake system
t2p is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 11:06 AM
  #222  
Jeff Neese
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 745
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked 273 Times in 184 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I don't know why this pointless statement gets repeated so often. People understand that "rim brakes" refer to one type of brake, and "disc brakes" referent to another type of brake. No one ever points to rim brakes and says "those are disc brakes." What purpose does it serve to call them both disc brakes, when everyone uses and understands the present terminology?
It may not be pointless to everyone. It highlights the fact that what we call disk brakes are not inherently better than what we call rim brakes, because in fact they're the same thing. One of them just has a much smaller diameter rotor (less mechanical advantage), and also weighs more. The tradeoff for those limitations are that you can use carbon rims, and also avoid overheating the rims under long hard braking. A lot of people mention other things like mud, or fender clearance. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, and people should choose based on their actual requirements. It's definitely not a "newer is better" thing.

Last edited by Jeff Neese; 06-19-22 at 11:09 AM.
Jeff Neese is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 11:12 AM
  #223  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,482

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 138 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5001 Post(s)
Liked 2,584 Times in 1,524 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Better and more consistent modulation and one finger operation.
People throw the term “modulation” around with regard to bicycle all the time and don’t define it. From the dictionary definition

a regulating according to measure or proportion
Another definition

the exertion of a modifying or controlling influence on something.
How, exactly, does a hub mounted disc brake give better “modulation” than a rim brake (i.e. a spoke mounted disc brake)? In my experience, I can pull on either a little or a lot and get the bike to slow a little or lock the rear wheel or, in extreme situations, spin me around the center of gravity. The only brake that I’ve ever used that didn’t have “modulation” was a hydraulic hub mounted disc. That one was full on or full off with no intermediate control…i.e. the opposite of well modulated.

I’ve seen people on line who claim that linear brakes are either on or off. I’ve never experienced anything like that in 30 year of using linear brakes.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Likes For cyccommute:
Old 06-19-22, 11:22 AM
  #224  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 25,482

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 138 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5001 Post(s)
Liked 2,584 Times in 1,524 Posts
Originally Posted by _ForceD_ View Post
This isn’t meant to be derogatory, but when you (and/or other disc brake users) state that “disc brakes are superior”…how exactly do you mean they’re superior? What makes them better? My rim brakes are perfectly capable of stopping my bike. I can lock up my wheels, at which point my bike’s ability to come to a complete stop resides in the amount of tire that is in contact with the ground. That ground contact would be the same with disc brakes. A locked up wheel with disc brakes isn’t going to come to a stop any quicker than one with rim brakes. I mean I’ve thought about it a lot, and the only conditions I can think of where disc brakes would be better are: regular long mountainous descents where that brakes have to be applied for long periods; extreme wet conditions; any sort of off-road cycling (mountain bike, cyclocross) where conditions are wet and muddy, or snow and ice.

Dan
Several good points. Bicycles braking isn’t limited by the power of the brake. It’s limited by the rider spinning around the center of gravity of the bicycle system during braking. Lock the front wheel and you are going to take a trip over the bars. Bicycle front wheels don’t skid like a car does, with the exception of tandems because the center of gravity is too far back for the system to lift the rear wheel high enough to put the riders over the bars. You can learn a lot about physics as applied to bicycles by reading Bicycling Scienc by David Wilson.

As for hub mounted discs being superior in rain, the limitation isn’t the braking system. It is the contact patch. The lack of road adhesion is the limiting factor, not the kind of brake.
As long as the bike isn’t using coaster brakes or drum brakes, the kind of brake is seldom a problem in stopping the bike.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 06-19-22, 12:21 PM
  #225  
Atlas Shrugged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 810
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 514 Post(s)
Liked 632 Times in 296 Posts
It’s always interesting watching the debates devolve as a new technology becomes accepted. For acceptance to succeed it is because the product or technology is superior overall than what is being replaced. The luddites crawl out of the woodwork hanging on by whatever tenuous threads of logic to defend the obviously dated and inferior equipment. Clipless pedals, Index shifting, Brifters, 700C Clinchers, Carbon, Low spoke count wheels, Tubeless, Electronic Shifting, GPS Bike computers, 2X drive systems and now disc brakes. Anyone who has spent any extended time on an quality disc brake bike especially in the mountains or in adverse conditions knows they function better and are nicer to use than rim brakes. This is the reason a vast majority of passionate cyclists prefer and enjoy disc brake bicycles. To each their own however defending a rim brake bike as just a larger disc but not taking into account the inherently flexible calipers and cable system is laughable. The advantages of hydraulic actuation and a rock solid caliper design is overwhelming.

Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 06-19-22 at 12:34 PM.
Atlas Shrugged is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.