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Crashing techniques and styles

Old 06-15-22, 09:17 PM
  #76  
LarrySellerz
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
That's not weird advice, it's ***deleted by censor***
the logic is simple, if you go over the bars when braking it means you used the front brake wrong. If you used the front brake wrong youíre probably over reliant on the back brake and donít have the muscle memory for the 0.1% of the time when it actually matters. If youíre over reliant on the back brake take it off. Simple logic, checks out.

Go to a track and test out your emergency stop with both brakes vs just the front brake. If you can stop faster with both brakes, you arenít using the front brake to its fullest potential and itís potentially dangerous when sh*t hits the fan. The majority of riders are overly reliant on the back brake. My method of just getting rid of it is controversial but not contrived or ridiculous.
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Old 06-15-22, 09:21 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
the logic is simple ...
You really should stop posting all this nonsense.
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Old 06-16-22, 08:19 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
I am in my 50s and ďcrashĒ (as in in go down) at least a dozen times a year. It is so common I donít even count.
Damn. How do you manage that.? I'm in the same age bracket and if I crash once a year that's a lot. Last crash was on wet leaves 2 years ago.
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Old 06-16-22, 09:18 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Damn. How do you manage that.? I'm in the same age bracket and if I crash once a year that's a lot. Last crash was on wet leaves 2 years ago.
I push things. I'm always trying to clear technical stuff that challenges me, or seeing just how hard I can push a corner. But I am seldom going very fast in these situtaions, or at least I have a sense of what I can do if things go south. And I try to avoid things that have a high consequence for failure (like skinnys). I am more conservative as speed picks up, as speed is a key ingredient to injury. I am OK risking getting a bit banged up, but want to avoid stuff that increases the change of really serious injury.

I did have a wreck the other day that left me a bit shaken.. I was in "attack position" when my pedal caught a root and it stopped the bike dead for a moment and in that instant my stomach was on my bars. That was the first wreck I've had in a long time that I felt out of control as I fell with no good options to control the situation. It was not a hard fall, though and I was unscathed. But that was one where I knew it was blind luck whether I came out of it OK. Guess I am still getting used to the new bike with the lower BB.

I should also clarify that I define a ďwreckĒ simply as simply coming off of the bike or the bike going down.

Last edited by Kapusta; 06-16-22 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 06-16-22, 12:35 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Outrider1 View Post
The two serious crashes I've had happened so fast that I was on the pavement before I could process what happened.
That describes my last crash. Tire blew, I was butt-surfing before I knew what had happened. BTW, rolling is BAD; you want to flop. I've had two instances since: First I hit a pot hole at nearly 30 mph, breaking the rim. Second I speared a dog which gave up on its intended target and turned around just as I was trying to swing wide. In both cases, I rode it out and stayed rubber-down.
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Old 06-16-22, 12:43 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
I push things. I'm always trying to clear technical stuff that challenges me, or seeing just how hard I can push a corner. But I am seldom going very fast in these situtaions, or at least I have a sense of what I can do if things go south. And I try to avoid things that have a high consequence for failure (like skinnys). I am more conservative as speed picks up, as speed is a key ingredient to injury. I am OK risking getting a bit banged up, but want to avoid stuff that increases the change of really serious injury.

I did have a wreck the other day that left me a bit shaken.. I was in "attack position" when my pedal caught a root and it stopped the bike dead for a moment and in that instant my stomach was on my bars. That was the first wreck I've had in a long time that I felt out of control as I fell with no good options to control the situation. It was not a hard fall, though and I was unscathed. But that was one where I knew it was blind luck whether I came out of it OK. Guess I am still getting used to the new bike with the lower BB.

I should also clarify that I define a “wreck” simply as simply coming off of the bike or the bike going down.
I pedal a lot (over 4k miles per year) but on the mountain bike I guess I'm more of a conservative rider. I see a lot of technical features that I think I may want to try and then my deductible flashes before my eyes and I think better of it. Want to be in shape to ride another day rather than risk injury and having to take time off the bike. I do take the occasional jump and I have some local rock gardens I ride. But there are also some jumps and some rock gardens that I refuse to ride.

My last FS bike had a low BB. Much like what just happened to you, I endured a few pedal strikes that threw me off the bike. When I upgraded in 2020 one of the main Criteria was high BB. Went from 334 to 349. Since then, I haven't had a pedal strike yet.

Last edited by prj71; 06-16-22 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 06-16-22, 12:48 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Damn. How do you manage that.? I'm in the same age bracket and if I crash once a year that's a lot. Last crash was on wet leaves 2 years ago.
Iím 57 and havenít crashed in 10 years, and that wasnít my fault. Someone in front of me spun out a stick that lodged between the inside of my front brake caliper and the rim, parallel to the ground. Went over the bars and split the end of my clavicle. Kept my head off the ground.
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Old 06-16-22, 01:14 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
I pedal a lot (over 4k miles per year) but on the mountain bike I guess I'm more of a conservative rider. I see a lot of technical features that I think I may want to try and then my deductible flashes before my eyes and I think better of it. Want to be in shape to ride another day rather than risk injury and having to take time off the bike. I do take the occasional jump and I have some local rock gardens I ride. But there are also some jumps and some rock gardens that I refuse to ride.

My last FS bike had a low BB. Much like what just happened to you, I endured a few pedal strikes that threw me off the bike. When I upgraded in 2020 one of the main Criteria was high BB. Went from 334 to 349. Since then, I haven't had a pedal strike yet.
Iím giving it some time to adapt, then I might try shorter cranks.

In the end, we all have a different level of tolerance for risk of wrecking in the name of learning. There is a lot I wonít do that others will (like getting big air or skinnys) and as a result, they can now comfortably do things that I canít.

Its all good. One certainly does not have to be pushing things all the time to get a lot out of mountIn biking. If its fun then its all good.

But road riding is different. Iíve got a zero-crash policy there. And I definitely ride much more conservatively.
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Old 06-16-22, 01:15 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Iím 57 and havenít crashed in 10 years, and that wasnít my fault. Someone in front of me spun out a stick that lodged between the inside of my front brake caliper and the rim, parallel to the ground. Went over the bars and split the end of my clavicle. Kept my head off the ground.
Ouch!!
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Old 06-16-22, 01:22 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
the logic is simple, if you go over the bars when braking it means you used the front brake wrong. If you used the front brake wrong you’re probably over reliant on the back brake and don’t have the muscle memory for the 0.1% of the time when it actually matters. If you’re over reliant on the back brake take it off. Simple logic, checks out.

Go to a track and test out your emergency stop with both brakes vs just the front brake. If you can stop faster with both brakes, you aren’t using the front brake to its fullest potential and it’s potentially dangerous when sh*t hits the fan. The majority of riders are overly reliant on the back brake. My method of just getting rid of it is controversial but not contrived or ridiculous.

I've flown over the handlebars twice (first time, big hole in road at bottom of SF hill, and second time, I managed to hit a pipe in the road with my rear wheel hard enough that the rear of the bike launched me). . Neither time had I touched either brake. So obviously I should practice by disconnecting both brakes, right?

I haven't got a clue why you think any of what you're writing makes sense, but that's nothing new.

Last edited by livedarklions; 06-16-22 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 06-16-22, 02:19 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Ouch!!
I was actually lucky. No surgery needed. Happened the first week of June. By mid-August I did D2R2 after a month off the bike then Cycle Oregon starting the first week of September.
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Old 06-16-22, 04:14 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by LarrySellerz View Post
the logic is simple, if you go over the bars when braking it means you used the front brake wrong. If you used the front brake wrong youíre probably over reliant on the back brake and donít have the muscle memory for the 0.1% of the time when it actually matters. If youíre over reliant on the back brake take it off. Simple logic, checks out.

Go to a track and test out your emergency stop with both brakes vs just the front brake. If you can stop faster with both brakes, you arenít using the front brake to its fullest potential and itís potentially dangerous when sh*t hits the fan. The majority of riders are overly reliant on the back brake. My method of just getting rid of it is controversial but not contrived or ridiculous.
Practicing using just the front is a good idea, but going without a back at all is not. There are situations where using the back is safer, albeit less effective.
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Old 06-16-22, 07:49 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Practicing using just the front is a good idea, but going without a back at all is not. There are situations where using the back is safer, albeit less effective.
like when, cornering on wet leaves where traction is an issue and youíd rather compromise your back wheel? I wasnít suggesting only running a front brake as a permanent solution, just for a few weeks or so to get used to using the front brake without the back. You can just press the back and be fine, but you move your weight back in order to use the front correctly. Itís ďharderĒ to use correctly
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Old 06-19-22, 06:37 AM
  #89  
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Joe B got his foot caught in a toe cage, wearing sneakers? someone's got to address that. he doesn't need those
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Old 06-19-22, 09:04 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
Joe B got his foot caught in a toe cage, wearing sneakers? someone's got to address that. he doesn't need those
At least he was wearing a shirt.
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Old 06-19-22, 09:19 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Jan Feetz View Post
.....an there is always this crash technique.
https://youtu.be/9manM-f-AdY
Gosh... Listening to the kid after the crash... I remember saying those exact words as I lie in the ditch...

Notice how at first there is the dialog of PAIN. And then the dialog of FRUSTRATION when picking up the scooter in not being able to ride back. Oh Boy... I remember... makes ya wanna cry...
__________________
No matter where your at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)

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Old 06-22-22, 04:08 AM
  #92  
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I crashed on pavement enough last year that this spring I made a category on the chalkboard on the side of the refrigerator "crashes", but so far I only have one score mark under it this year. I think screwing up the ACL in my right knee last November 27th detuned me a little and I went around turns more slowly, especially in the wet which was the cause of that crash. Funny, now if I touch my right knee on a spot on the inside, I don't feel it there, I feel it on the outside front, must have cut or smashed some nerves too, but luckily none that control anything.
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Old 06-22-22, 04:19 AM
  #93  
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As far as pre-emptive crashes go; Once I was going down a very long steep hill on a two-lane state highway, this was back in the 1970s so it, like most roads, had dirt curbs with maybe some cinders, a a nice drop-off going from the blacktop to the curb so not easy to jump from one to the other at speed. I had to ride on the dirt curb because there was heavy automobile traffic. Luckily I spotted quite a ways up ahead, a spot where the curb had severely washed out and made a trench going from the pavement into the ditch on the side of the highway. I was going about as fast as the automobile traffic it seemed, and at that speed I was not going to try a hop onto the pavement from the curb or even to turn my head and look for an opening in traffic. So my best solution was to jump off the back of the bike and land flat on the curb sliding on my belly. Of course I did not land flat, I landed first on my feet, my knees, elbows, then finally belly and chest. Also lucky I was wearing blue-jeans and not shorts. A friend of mine following on another ten-speed saw me go down and was able to stop in time to have the same fate or worse. This pre-emptive crash was preferable to me than hitting the trench wheel-first and flipping, which could have been far harder on the body and not controllable at all. Also would have damaged the bike worse.

I was able to ride quite a few miles back home, but by then my jeans, now with holes in the knees, had scabbed to my knees, and it was not fun taking them off. The good old Columbia solid-steel ten-speeder took a beating, but nothing terminal that time.
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Old 06-22-22, 04:36 AM
  #94  
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I know I rolled and held on because I'm scuffed up on right knee, left shoulder, and a couple places on my helmet. I know exactly how I got to crashing but from there on, it happened way too fast, even at the slow 7-10mph.
Whoopsie!!
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Old 06-22-22, 05:16 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
I crashed on pavement enough last year that this spring I made a category on the chalkboard on the side of the refrigerator "crashes", but so far I only have one score mark under it this year. I think screwing up the ACL in my right knee last November 27th detuned me a little and I went around turns more slowly, especially in the wet which was the cause of that crash. Funny, now if I touch my right knee on a spot on the inside, I don't feel it there, I feel it on the outside front, must have cut or smashed some nerves too, but luckily none that control anything.

I've got to say, this history puts your op in perspective. You crash on pavement with absurd frequency, and you ended up damaging your knee? Learn more about crash avoidance rather than vainly seeking " safe" methods of crashing.
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Old 06-22-22, 05:22 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
As far as pre-emptive crashes go; Once I was going down a very long steep hill on a two-lane state highway, this was back in the 1970s so it, like most roads, had dirt curbs with maybe some cinders, a a nice drop-off going from the blacktop to the curb so not easy to jump from one to the other at speed. I had to ride on the dirt curb because there was heavy automobile traffic. Luckily I spotted quite a ways up ahead, a spot where the curb had severely washed out and made a trench going from the pavement into the ditch on the side of the highway. I was going about as fast as the automobile traffic it seemed, and at that speed I was not going to try a hop onto the pavement from the curb or even to turn my head and look for an opening in traffic. So my best solution was to jump off the back of the bike and land flat on the curb sliding on my belly. Of course I did not land flat, I landed first on my feet, my knees, elbows, then finally belly and chest. Also lucky I was wearing blue-jeans and not shorts. A friend of mine following on another ten-speed saw me go down and was able to stop in time to have the same fate or worse. This pre-emptive crash was preferable to me than hitting the trench wheel-first and flipping, which could have been far harder on the body and not controllable at all. Also would have damaged the bike worse.

I was able to ride quite a few miles back home, but by then my jeans, now with holes in the knees, had scabbed to my knees, and it was not fun taking them off. The good old Columbia solid-steel ten-speeder took a beating, but nothing terminal that time.

If you're in a position where you need to decide how to crash, you've obviously made a bunch of bad decisions leading up to that. Even at slow speed, bouncing around on an uncontrolled bike entails such complicated physics that you can't really decide how you're going to land. This whole concept is silly.
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Old 06-22-22, 07:18 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
If you're in a position where you need to decide how to crash, you've obviously made a bunch of bad decisions leading up to that. Even at slow speed, bouncing around on an uncontrolled bike entails such complicated physics that you can't really decide how you're going to land. This whole concept is silly.
Bad decisions and adventure is what being a teenager is all about. And it is very, very easy to talk to motorcycle racers and stunt-men about throwing down a bike on purpose in a controlled manner. One time when I was a pre-teen my brother and I along with a large group of kids were riding down a very steep long hill of a dirt road to see how fast we could go down it with our bicycles. In fact it was known by all local residents as "Dead Man's HIll" for whatever reason. I saw my little brother go into a high-speed wobble and go down, I wanted to be with him to help him all I could so without a thought I bailed off the back of my bicycle and slid on the dirt to a stop, not thinking of myself but watching him as he slid with his bike along side. The only reason you say things are silly is because they are not withing your experience or imagination, which are rather small it seems.
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Old 06-22-22, 07:53 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
Bad decisions and adventure is what being a teenager is all about.
But, you're not a teenager, yet you stated you crashed a lot last year.
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Old 06-22-22, 09:06 PM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
But, you're not a teenager, yet you stated you crashed a lot last year.
It's usually the side effect of surviving a crash without a helmet.
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Old 06-23-22, 05:34 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by beng1 View Post
Bad decisions and adventure is what being a teenager is all about. And it is very, very easy to talk to motorcycle racers and stunt-men about throwing down a bike on purpose in a controlled manner. One time when I was a pre-teen my brother and I along with a large group of kids were riding down a very steep long hill of a dirt road to see how fast we could go down it with our bicycles. In fact it was known by all local residents as "Dead Man's HIll" for whatever reason. I saw my little brother go into a high-speed wobble and go down, I wanted to be with him to help him all I could so without a thought I bailed off the back of my bicycle and slid on the dirt to a stop, not thinking of myself but watching him as he slid with his bike along side. The only reason you say things are silly is because they are not withing your experience or imagination, which are rather small it seems.
Says the guy who screwed up his knee screwing up a turn. Doing the math, if you were a teenager in the 1970s, you're in your 60s. If you can't ride on roads without routinely crashing at this point, I'm going with the lessons of my experience and imagination over yours, by a very, very long shot.

I ride several thousand miles every year. I have crashed a few times, some at pretty high speed. I have never been seriously injured. The main thing I have learned is never to give up on trying to get control of the bike until you actually hit the ground. I've learned that by doing that, I've avoided several crashes that I initially thought were inevitable. Also, if my hands are on the handlebars when I do land due to a crash, that's probably the closest I'll get to a roll. It works very well. My muscle memory works best when it's focused on keeping me upright, not on some vain effort to alter my trajectory in midair.


You keep talking about stunt-men, this has absolutely nothing to do with the planning and preparation they go through to pull off the stunt. If you're on the road when the mishap occurs, you don't have a clue where and how you're likely to land. Stunt-men prepare themselves, their bike and their road and their landing site.

I'm really not going to get into a competition with you about dumb stuff we did as kids. And I hate to break it to you, but this isn't motorcycle racing.
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