LarrySellerz

have your rolling skills translated into a real life save when crashing?

terrymorse 

Nonsense.

The problem is not with "traditional road bike design". The problem is that many riders are fearful of the front brake, because they believe the myth that it's easy to go over the bars if you squeeze hard the front brake.

And no, braking in a turn does not make a bicycle unstable.

Please make an effort to not propagate myths.

big john

We haven't had a front brake only thread in a while. This may be true when circumstances are ideal for it to be true. Most of our riding is not that and the rear brake is a valuable tool for controlling a bike. Riding around town with just a front brake is fine but on a steep mountain descent or in the rain or on the dirt or in a group or in any number of situations a rear brake is mandatory.

freeranger

Luckily, my crashes have been off-road. Always been a "free form" crasher. Had my share but no two were similar enough to develop a technique. Most happened so quickly that doubt I'd have had time to think about applying a technique, had one existed. One fall stunned me for a minute or two, but no broken bones or serious injuries from a bike. I've been lucky so far and as I get older, don't ride as hard off-road as I used to. And don't have access to trails like I had back east, might be a good thing (less temptation on difficult sections).

terrymorse 

One big benefit of two-wheel braking on long mountain descents: the heat generated from braking is spread across two wheels, so you're less likely to blow a tire, warp a rotor, or destroy a carbon rim.

beng1

It was very smooth black asphalt that was wet, I was probably going about 16-17mph. The new knobbly tires on the bike have terrible traction on wet smooth pavement, I tested that the next spring with I got back on the bike, the tires are simply not made for anything but the dirt. It surprised me too. Now about eight months later I would say my leg is back about 90%, but my right leg is noticeably skinnier than my left leg because I could not use it hardly at all for a few months. If I would have had flat pedals instead of toe-clips/straps on the bike I believe I would have got my foot on the ground first instead of my knee-first, my foot was trapped in the strap. It tore a lot of stuff up. The ACL was not tore all the way through luckily, as the only fix for that is surgery. A partially tore ACL is said to take up to nine months to heal, and mine is taking all of that. When it first happened it did not seem like my lower leg was stable with my thigh at all, if I tried to pivot the foot would stay planted while the thigh moved, so I knew I was in trouble. Somewhere I have a nice set of flat pedals for this bike, but I am having trouble finding them, until I do I am not riding it that much.

Jeff Neese

I actually can't remember the last time I had a serious crash, but late last year I was riding through a loose gravel parking lot (on tires that I shouldn't have been) and the back wheel slid out from under me. I landed hard on my side, without coming off the bike. It was my entire forearm that got the road rash, not my glove, so apparently at least that part - slapping the mat - is still there. I was uninjured otherwise.

I have had a couple situations where I fell, either tripped over something or whatever, and I instinctively rolled, although not a full ukemi where I ended up back on my feet. It's been a long time since I trained and I'm old now, but it seems like once you've retrained your body to react in those ways naturally, it doesn't revert back. Like riding a bicycle.

beng1

As far as front-brake use goes, it is essential to know how to use that front brake for all it is worth. I grew up riding coaster-brake bikes, but in my teens,twenties got riding motorcycles on/off road and learned that most all the stopping power in any wheeled vehicle is on the front, this is why front brakes on motorcycles and cars are so much bigger than the back brakes. On dry pavement you can pretty much use all the brakes a bike has within reason, on the wet or dirt or ice, I usually use the back brake to where it starts to lock the wheel, which is usually very quickly, then quickly bring in the front brake. On some of the trails I take my MTB on, the downhills are so steep that if you do not have both brakes working then you are not going to be able to control your speed, and you will soon be in big, big trouble. So if you are afraid of using your front brake you better remedy that with some practice.

LarrySellerz

what age did you start training martial arts

Jeff Neese

Physics says otherwise. You're stopping a moving mass at a certain velocity, with brakes that apply a given amount of friction against the moving wheels, on tires with a given amount of traction on the road. Two sets of brakes will of course have more raw stopping power than just one.

The trick is practicing how to modulate between front and rear brakes and use that to achieve maximum braking force and minimum stopping distance. But under the same conditions and with skilled riders, two brakes are going to beat one front brake only, every time. If I'm not mistaken, the TDF riders all have both front and rear brakes. Maybe they know something you don't.

Jeff Neese

I was a late starter - in my early 30s, and I trained into my 50s. I only had to stop training because I blew out my knee in Judo practice. I can still ride a bicycle though!

smd4

So do you prefer the 109 or the P-51, why or why not?

gringomojado

aikido?

gm
?

beng1

Chuck Yeager said it does not matter what you fly, the pilot with the most experience will come out on top every time. Not a Yeager fan myself, but he got that right, and that applies to bicycles too.

koala logs

Ofc you're right as well. Rear brake would be useful in low traction situations like dirt, mud, ice, etc. Less traction means less weight transfer, more weight at the rear wheels during max braking effort, so in low traction situations, using both front and rear brakes will give you the shortest braking distance.

Rear brake is also useful on dry pavement when you're not doing max braking effort (resulting to less weight transfer, where you can safely use the rear brakes without locking the rear wheel) to keep wear on front and rear brakes more even AND it takes less effort, less strain on the braking components to use both at the same time if conditions are permitting. This is actually the ideal situation to maintain reliable operation of brakes so I'll never lose the rear brakes myself as well.

But max braking effort on dry pavement whether you're on the flats or going downhill results to dramatic weight transfer to the front wheel that using only the front brakes is ironically, the best way to stop in the shortest distance over dry pavement. However, it is far better to avoid putting yourself in situations where you need to brake in the shortest distance possible. Slow down over busy sections and places where visibility for pedestrians or vehicles that might suddenly cross your path is compromised.

It is also safer to use even more force on the front brakes on descents, especially on winding descents where you have no choice but to drag the brake on the turns. Skidding the rear wheel during such turn on a descent will immediately cause you to fall to the pavement. If worried about brake fade on the front, you have a choice for disc brake users to use larger diameter front wheel disc rotor.

koala logs

Not sure who did, GCN or others have actually proved on dry pavement, to brake in the shortest distance possible, using only the front brake will get you there.

They did the test where the rear wheel sometimes lifted off the ground and in some occasions, throwing the rider off the bike in a full-blown endo. That kind of braking effort where they pointed out, the rear wheel is almost unloaded due to weight transfer and any effort to press the rear brake lever will cause the rear wheel to lock.

But if you ride safely enough, you'll probably very rarely get yourself in a situation where you need to stop that quick. In that case, using the rear brake is totally fine.

I still have my rear brake I don't intend on removing it ever. If you don't need to brake hard, the rear brake is useful to avoid over use of the front brake.

koala logs

Makes sense. The new tires surprised you. You may be going too fast indeed. I crashed couple of times when I was a kid when I turned too fast on wet pavement.

It doesn't look that fast on the video but 16-17 mph on that sharp a turn on wet pavement would be too fast for me. There are better tires with better grip for wet riding, just ask around here. First thing that comes to mind are Gravelking tires.

koala logs

The most experienced pilot will come out on top even if not wearing shirt, flying undersized plane, and dodging exploding tires!

smd4

You seem to be really into plane sims, so no preference?

njkayaker

There have been multiple tests (that don't violate physics) that show this not to be the case.

Or, maybe, you are drawing the wrong conclusion why they have both. People above have mentioned a few other reasons why one should also have rear brakes. No one appeared to be arguing that one might be better off in some situations with both brakes.

big john

I want to see Yeager in a P51 Mustang take on a modern fighter jet.

livedarklions

If Yeager were alive, he wouldn't see it either. They'd never get close enough before the air-to-air missile took him out.

beng1

[QUOTE=smd4;22567896]You seem to be really into plane sims, so no preference?[/QUOT

I am not into aircraft simulators at all. The only video-game/flight sim I ever played with was the one in the videos and it is called IL2-Sturmovik and was made by a Russian guy. It came out in 2001, over 20 years ago. There is a new version of it out now but you need a mulit-thousand dollar super-computer and VR equipment to run it and I am not interested in spending money on new computers any more than I am on new bicycles or clothing. All the computers I have now I got for free and are older, running bootleg Windows XP or Linux, which is a free OS people with half a brain can install and run.

rumrunn6

thank you for sharing. I feel your pain. happens in a flash, doesn't?

Maelochs

if riding with only a front brake were a benefit every Protour race bike would have only a single brake --- less weight, more ability to control weight distribution and CG with ballast ..... (Ahhhh ... I see Jeff Neese already raised the point .... )

On another hand some guy said he could prove that the Earth was flat .....