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More important upgrade: mechanical -> Hydro brakes or non tubeless -> tubeless wheels

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More important upgrade: mechanical -> Hydro brakes or non tubeless -> tubeless wheels

Old 06-13-22, 11:21 AM
  #26  
Cnguyen323
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Originally Posted by KerryIrons View Post
Do what you like, but it is far more cost efficient to ride the heck out of this bike and save your money. If things do wear out before you are ready to purchase the next bike, then upgrade the worn out component as appropriate (the next level up or maybe two levels up). Otherwise you end up with a box of lower grade components that are still perfectly useful, small increments in performance, and the risk that you are putting titanium lug nuts on a Yugo.
this seems to be the most level headed category of responses here. Iím on a budget anyways so Iíll definitely wait and save up for the inevitable next bike purchase. I donít know my preferences as far as geometry and fit so hopefully over the next couple of years I can figure that out and find a better specíd and more fitting bike. This one will do just fine for the time being.

Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I'm spending the big bucks (well sorta) to downgrade from non-tubeless to totally tubular. (Well, the city bikes will stay tubed with Paselas for the time being,) The rest are starting the transition back to the sewups I rode exclusively for 15 years and 25 years total.

Several reasons. I've had a flatted clincher roll off the rim and jam in the seatstays. Ugly. painful crash. I can no longer enjoy downhills (Portland and Oregon have some great ones) going twice the speed I crashed at. Can't block the "what if"s. Also love how much abuse a tubular wheel can take (hitting a bottomless pothole for example) and roll along just fine like nothing happened, even with deep dents in the rim. Rare pinch flats. Tire stays on even with 1" or deeper rim damage. Wheel bumps home just fine. (Little rough on the brakes. Oh well.) Confidence inspiring.

The ride! All that air between the road and the rim. None of it hiding in some valley doing nothing. Secure cornering. Everything else being equal, tubulars get better grip. (Learned that the hard way when when I transitioned to clinchers in the '80s and tried to take a downhill wet corner I'd done dozens of times on tubulars.)

Fewer flats than clinchers. I don't know why. But it seems to be. Just hoping that luck resumes. And when it happens. so much easier to deal with! Rip the old tire off. Stick on a new one. Ride. Whatever caused that flat is between the road you are now leaving and the flatted tire under your seat. It cannot cause the next flat. 5 minute tire changes - on good days, on bad days, in the snow, inebriated, in the dark. Very little you can do wrong. (But just roll easy the next few miles, 'till you get home if you use a hard glue.)
I like the sound of this. Iím all about convenience so you make some very convincing points. I have noticed that that with some quality wheels, my tubes hold up to pretty much everything I put them through.

I like the idea of tubeless and the weight savings, but youíve given me a new appreciation for my tubes!
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Old 06-13-22, 12:17 PM
  #27  
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I wouldn't necessarily consider either of these changes an upgrade - unless, of course your current wheels and brakes are super-crappy.
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Old 06-13-22, 12:21 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
I think I will eventually get the juin techs if these tektroís ever start acting up or getting difficult. Are those other juin tech exactly the same or are you talking about z race and similar hybrid calipers
I don't really know, but everything I've read says the Juin Tech GTs are nearly identical to the Yokozuna Ultimo.
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Old 06-13-22, 12:29 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
I ride about 75% pavement and 25% gravel. All the terrain I’m on is relatively flat. No climbs longer than a few hundred feet if that. I’m a heavy rider (240 lbs) on a Poseidon X with tektro mech brakes and stock wheels.

I understand the safety and importance that comes with significant stopping power. Should I prioritize upgrading the brakes before the wheelset? I’m considering something from the juin tech lineup for brakes.

Does anyone know the performance difference between hybrid flat mount hydraulic brakes and a fully hydraulic brake setup like something from sram/shimano?

and I know I should ride up grades before thinking about upgrades… but I digress.
I built my current gravel frame with flatmount Juintech brake calipers and used that setup for a year before switching to 105 hydraulic.
The Juintech brakes with compressionless brake housing worked fine. The 105 hydraulic works fine. For both, its all about proper setup. When they are properly set up, I really dont care which I have. I am 210-220 depending on time of year, so not a feather.




I know the Poseidon is a popular entry bike, so use it as such. Ride it as is for a season and then decide if you want to change anything or keep as is and change things on your next bike.
Spending $570 for hydraulic shifters and brakes on that bike is, to me, goofy. https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/s...ed-119868.html
Spending $210 for Juintech F1 brakes and compressionless housing is less goofy, but still a bit goofy if all you really need is to properly set up your mechanical brakes. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...XHIA4CY2&psc=1

Personally, I would get a nice tubeless wheelset before spending over $200 for cable actuated hydraulic brakes. The nice wheelset can be moved to a new frame, if you ever buy a different bike.
Shimano GRX wheels are a good value. Hunt has some at $400. Prowheelbuilder.com is an option to call and have handbuilt for $450.
https://www.coloradocyclist.com/shim...-disc-wheelset
https://us.huntbikewheels.com/collec...-disc-wheelset
Various claims place the stock wheelset between 2400g and 2900g. The posters that have mentoned weight seem to be less than well informed so they may hav the rotors or cassette on. Regardless, a new wheelset will drop weight.

Honesty though, if you dont get flats, I would just buy some quality fast rolling tires and call it good. That alone can change the feel of a bike and is $100ish.

Last edited by mstateglfr; 06-13-22 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 06-13-22, 01:13 PM
  #30  
Cnguyen323
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I built my current gravel frame with flatmount Juintech brake calipers and used that setup for a year before switching to 105 hydraulic.
The Juintech brakes with compressionless brake housing worked fine. The 105 hydraulic works fine. For both, its all about proper setup. When they are properly set up, I really dont care which I have. I am 210-220 depending on time of year, so not a feather.




I know the Poseidon is a popular entry bike, so use it as such. Ride it as is for a season and then decide if you want to change anything or keep as is and change things on your next bike.
Spending $570 for hydraulic shifters and brakes on that bike is, to me, goofy. https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/s...ed-119868.html
Spending $210 for Juintech F1 brakes and compressionless housing is less goofy, but still a bit goofy if all you really need is to properly set up your mechanical brakes. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...XHIA4CY2&psc=1

Personally, I would get a nice tubeless wheelset before spending over $200 for cable actuated hydraulic brakes. The nice wheelset can be moved to a new frame, if you ever buy a different bike.
Shimano GRX wheels are a good value. Hunt has some at $400. Prowheelbuilder.com is an option to call and have handbuilt for $450.
https://www.coloradocyclist.com/shim...-disc-wheelset
https://us.huntbikewheels.com/collec...-disc-wheelset
Various claims place the stock wheelset between 2400g and 2900g. The posters that have mentoned weight seem to be less than well informed so they may hav the rotors or cassette on. Regardless, a new wheelset will drop weight.

Honesty though, if you dont get flats, I would just buy some quality fast rolling tires and call it good. That alone can change the feel of a bike and is $100ish.
the current setup I have has given me no problems. The brakes leave a bit to be desired but so do my skills. As those improve, I imagine my experience with this bike will too. I will definitely not make any unnecessary pricey changes to this bike.

Iím looking at the polygon bend R5 as a possible next bike. But thatís much later down the line for me. It comes with a grx group set. I also like the idea of a chromoly frame to add some suppleness to the ride. A lot of factors to consider, but I have plenty of time as I will ride this bike as is for at least several years.
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Old 06-13-22, 01:21 PM
  #31  
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I'm surprised by all the people suggesting upgrading the brakes. Spending $400+ on a $750 bike to go from mechanical disc to hydro disc seems crazy to me.

A $400-$500 investment in some entry level tubeless ready alloy wheels seems like a much more significant upgrade and they can be used on a future bike.
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Old 06-13-22, 01:53 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
I'm surprised by all the people suggesting upgrading the brakes. Spending $400+ on a $750 bike to go from mechanical disc to hydro disc seems crazy to me.

A $400-$500 investment in some entry level tubeless ready alloy wheels seems like a much more significant upgrade and they can be used on a future bike.
I was never considering going full hydro on this bike for sure. My next bike will have hydraulic brakes, tubeless ready wheels, and a better fit. But the Poseidon is the first substantial bike Iíve ever purchased. Itíll do until Iím ready to shell out for something better.
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Old 06-13-22, 02:21 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by SalsaShark View Post
I wouldn't necessarily consider either of these changes an upgrade - unless, of course your current wheels and brakes are super-crappy.
I think the most pertinent thing holding me back is my skills. So I will just ride until I get enough experience to be able to tell what I need to upgrade, if anything, before I get a better bike later down the line.
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Old 06-13-22, 02:22 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
I was never considering going full hydro on this bike for sure. My next bike will have hydraulic brakes, tubeless ready wheels, and a better fit. But the Poseidon is the first substantial bike Iíve ever purchased. Itíll do until Iím ready to shell out for something better.
Wise thinking. I can def understand the want and desire for upgrades as I have spent large amounts of coin on not smart upgrades. Lately I have bought bikes that don't really need much upgrading....but I do stuff to em anyway. At the end of the day it's your time and treasure you are shelling out. I'd say buy a decent book on bike maintenance and learn a bit about working on it. Get some good accessories (lights, pedals, bags etc.) which can all go on a new bike and get down !!
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Old 06-13-22, 02:39 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
I'm surprised by all the people suggesting upgrading the brakes. Spending $400+ on a $750 bike to go from mechanical disc to hydro disc seems crazy to me.

A $400-$500 investment in some entry level tubeless ready alloy wheels seems like a much more significant upgrade and they can be used on a future bike.
To be fair, the brakes could also be moved to a future bike, but I think you're right in that spending half of the bike's value on new brakes is foolish -- and I think that probably applies to wheels and tires, as well. My earlier response in favor of upgrading both was to say that they are desirable and worthy upgrades, but I should have included the caveat that the bike should be worthy of them.
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Old 06-13-22, 02:44 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
Itís a gravel bike with 700x37 wtb riddlers. I think Iím within the recc psi but Iím new to all things cycling. they feel good. But my average speed is usually 11-13 mph. I assume thatís due to the knobs and width of the tire. I think youíre right about just riding until I get a new bike. I splurged for compressionless housing because many said itís a game changer for my bike specifically.
This calculator seems pretty comprehensive and has you at about 50psi so you aren't far out.
https://cycling-sport.com/en/resourc...ure-calculator

With tires that are too soft you're likely to get pinch flats (where a bump causes the tube to get pinched between the rim and the ground) and they'll be a bit more work due to extra grip/drag. With tires that are too hard, you'll find the ride pretty harsh and potentially have less grip, though it shouldn't be noticeable unless you're on soft ground.
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Old 06-13-22, 02:45 PM
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Just go ride your bike. See what you donít like. Spend first on getting comfortable and well equipped.

I really like both the things you want but I wouldnít swap them from new unless the original was really a problem.

A dirt road bike named after a sea god. Someone in marketing was pretty lazyÖ
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Old 06-13-22, 02:51 PM
  #38  
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Not answering the brake or tire issue, but likely most relevant.

My offroad is mostly hardpacked trails with little elevation gain (typically) and few or short spots with lots of gravel - but it has a fair number of potholes/ruts that are not always so obvious on the brown surface (or leaf covered). If the thread starter has similar conditions I think 40psi on 37mm tires is pushing the lower limit of acceptable for a heavier rider, admittedly newbie. I ride 30mm at 85 - 90psi for 195pound rider. If the tire has a max pressure listed, I would get closer to that number. Maybe better brakes with the increase in speed.
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Old 06-13-22, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
To be fair, the brakes could also be moved to a future bike, but I think you're right in that spending half of the bike's value on new brakes is foolish -- and I think that probably applies to wheels and tires, as well. My earlier response in favor of upgrading both was to say that they are desirable and worthy upgrades, but I should have included the caveat that the bike should be worthy of them.
Sure, I suppose any upgrade could theoretically be moved to the next bike, but the next bike isn't likely to need a brake upgrade.

On the other hand, the $400-$500 wheelsets mentioned above would be an upgrade on many new bikes. Also having a second wheelset has other benefits, like allowing easy swapping between different tires for different conditions, for example.
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Old 06-13-22, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la View Post
Sure, I suppose any upgrade could theoretically be moved to the next bike, but the next bike isn't likely to need a brake upgrade.

On the other hand, the $400-$500 wheelsets mentioned above would be an upgrade on many new bikes. Also having a second wheelset has other benefits, like allowing easy swapping between different tires for different conditions, for example.
is it safe to say any bike under $2500 has a lesser wheelset versus something in the 400-500 range?
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Old 06-13-22, 05:45 PM
  #41  
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It sounds to me like you are conflating the words upgrade and change.
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Old 06-13-22, 06:33 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
is it safe to say any bike under $2500 has a lesser wheelset versus something in the 400-500 range?
I'm sure there are exceptions, but OEM wheelsets on bikes in this price range are generally overbuilt, heavy and often have low quality hubs, etc. Most gravel bikes in this price range are shipping with narrowish road rims as well.

I'd say (again, generally speaking) that one of the wheelsets mentioned above (GRX, Hunt or a custom budget build from PWB or similar) would be an upgrade from what comes stock on most $2500 bikes. How much of an upgrade is debatable.
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Old 06-14-22, 07:55 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
that is coming for sure. Just got this one a few weeks ago though. Decent platform for upgrades. I do plan on saving up for a bike that comes stock tubeless ready with hydro brakes though.
well thereís your answer. Just ride the bike you have now, and then ride the new one when you get it.

The caveat I will add here is that a spare pair of wheels is never a bad thing to have around (set up one set with knobbies, one with slicks etc); if you get a new pair of wheels for this bike, you can carry them over to the next one.
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Old 06-14-22, 08:14 AM
  #44  
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There's really nothing wrong with that bike. If it's not stopping as well as it should, it's possible the brakes may need different pads or possibly just some adjusting. The wheels are a bit heavy. Upgrading the wheels might be worthwhile, but certainly not necessary. If you're riding on pavement, increase the air pressure on your tires taking note of the max pressure rating on the tires.
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Old 06-17-22, 09:29 AM
  #45  
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First off, I am assuming this is a flat bar setup, not a drop bar... correct?

I own many bikes with BB7 mechs, one with XT 2-pot hydros, and one with Magura MT7 4-pot hydros (these run ~$230 per wheel NOT including rotors).

For what you are describing, and using these for, I don't see switching to hydros to be worth it. I find the BB7s do 90% of what the XTs and Maguras do, and it is only in the more demanding mountain biking scenarios that the benefits shine through. And even then, I've tackled some very steep and hard terrain there with BB7s and never really felt let down.

It really comes down to maintenance, IMO. Depending on how much you ride, mechs need adjusting to keep the inboard pad as close to the rotor as possible. Otherwise the lever feel starts to suck, and the pads wear wonky and then they feel off no matter what you do. But it is pretty easy to keep adjusted. Unfortunately, most people don't keep up with this, thus most peoples' terrible experience with them. Also, mechs can sometimes be trickier to set up initially (though my Maguras take the cake for that hassle).

Hydros are usually easier to set up, and usually less maintenance... until they are not. My Magura take WAY more maintenance time than any set of mechs I have owned.

Tubeless is also not worth it if it will require new rims. I would absolutely avoid ghetto setups with tires that small that need higher pressures.

Want some real bang for your buck? Get some high quality tires.
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Old 06-17-22, 11:43 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
First off, I am assuming this is a flat bar setup, not a drop bar... correct?

I own many bikes with BB7 mechs, one with XT 2-pot hydros, and one with Magura MT7 4-pot hydros (these run ~$230 per wheel NOT including rotors).

For what you are describing, and using these for, I don't see switching to hydros to be worth it. I find the BB7s do 90% of what the XTs and Maguras do, and it is only in the more demanding mountain biking scenarios that the benefits shine through. And even then, I've tackled some very steep and hard terrain there with BB7s and never really felt let down.

It really comes down to maintenance, IMO. Depending on how much you ride, mechs need adjusting to keep the inboard pad as close to the rotor as possible. Otherwise the lever feel starts to suck, and the pads wear wonky and then they feel off no matter what you do. But it is pretty easy to keep adjusted. Unfortunately, most people don't keep up with this, thus most peoples' terrible experience with them. Also, mechs can sometimes be trickier to set up initially (though my Maguras take the cake for that hassle).

Hydros are usually easier to set up, and usually less maintenance... until they are not. My Magura take WAY more maintenance time than any set of mechs I have owned.

Tubeless is also not worth it if it will require new rims. I would absolutely avoid ghetto setups with tires that small that need higher pressures.

Want some real bang for your buck? Get some high quality tires.
its actually a drop bar with microshift advent X. Iím hesitant to invest in a new brifters for new hydro brakes so Iíll just keep up with the maintenance the best I can with these.

is there a certain model of the bb7s that youíd recommend? They seem like a more sensible investment versus the juin tech. Iíll probably save up to buy a bike that comes with a good set of hydros in the future.
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Old 06-17-22, 01:11 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
its actually a drop bar with microshift advent X. Iím hesitant to invest in a new brifters for new hydro brakes so Iíll just keep up with the maintenance the best I can with these.

is there a certain model of the bb7s that youíd recommend? They seem like a more sensible investment versus the juin tech. Iíll probably save up to buy a bike that comes with a good set of hydros in the future.
Oh, I assumed since you were talking about Deore and XT this was a flat bar (there are no XT or Deore brakes for drops).

I will say that in my experience, the difference between mech and hydro is greater for drop bar setups than for mtb. I think it may be due to the higher cable tension for the drop setup.

However, there is no way I would buy all new shifters just to get hydros. I run BB7s on my gravel bike and while hydros definitely feel nicer, iíve stuck with them.

To be honest, if I could do it again, I would have spent the extra money and bought the TRP Spyers (another mech brake) for the gravel bike. Look them up. Whether it is worth replacing your Tektros with BB7sÖ I donít know what yours are like, tektro makes many different models. I think the only difference between the various BB7 Road calipers is the color and the mount type.
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Old 06-17-22, 01:51 PM
  #48  
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Just ride the bike. If there is something that needs upgrading, you'll figure it out. Everyone has their own needs based on how / where they ride.
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Old 06-17-22, 04:15 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Kapusta View Post
Oh, I assumed since you were talking about Deore and XT this was a flat bar (there are no XT or Deore brakes for drops).

I will say that in my experience, the difference between mech and hydro is greater for drop bar setups than for mtb. I think it may be due to the higher cable tension for the drop setup.

However, there is no way I would buy all new shifters just to get hydros. I run BB7s on my gravel bike and while hydros definitely feel nicer, iíve stuck with them.

To be honest, if I could do it again, I would have spent the extra money and bought the TRP Spyers (another mech brake) for the gravel bike. Look them up. Whether it is worth replacing your Tektros with BB7sÖ I donít know what yours are like, tektro makes many different models. I think the only difference between the various BB7 Road calipers is the color and the mount type.
itís a single piston tektro so I assume the trps 3 pistons would make a significant difference. For my style of riding, I donít think Iíll need to do anything but improve my skills and keep up with maintenance. Once Iím more of an intermediate and have a better idea of what type of riding I want to do, Iíll buy a new bike or upgrade accordingly. I really appreciate your knowledge and advice.
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Old 06-18-22, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
that is coming for sure. Just got this one a few weeks ago though. Decent platform for upgrades. I do plan on saving up for a bike that comes stock tubeless ready with hydro brakes though.
Depending on this timeframe to save and buy a new bike, the argument could swing to go get a decent set of TLR wheels, because at least that will transfer over to the new bike -- which unless you're springing for something over ~$4k, you'll likely end up with pretty heavy and average wheels.
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