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More important upgrade: mechanical -> Hydro brakes or non tubeless -> tubeless wheels

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More important upgrade: mechanical -> Hydro brakes or non tubeless -> tubeless wheels

Old 06-11-22, 03:41 PM
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Cnguyen323
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More important upgrade: mechanical -> Hydro brakes or non tubeless -> tubeless wheels

I ride about 75% pavement and 25% gravel. All the terrain I知 on is relatively flat. No climbs longer than a few hundred feet if that. I知 a heavy rider (240 lbs) on a Poseidon X with tektro mech brakes and stock wheels.

I understand the safety and importance that comes with significant stopping power. Should I prioritize upgrading the brakes before the wheelset? I知 considering something from the juin tech lineup for brakes.

Does anyone know the performance difference between hybrid flat mount hydraulic brakes and a fully hydraulic brake setup like something from sram/shimano?

and I know I should ride up grades before thinking about upgrades but I digress.
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Old 06-11-22, 03:45 PM
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Neither. Save the coins for the better bike you’ll inevitably want.
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Old 06-11-22, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojo31 View Post
Neither. Save the coins for the better bike you値l inevitably want.
that is coming for sure. Just got this one a few weeks ago though. Decent platform for upgrades. I do plan on saving up for a bike that comes stock tubeless ready with hydro brakes though.
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Old 06-11-22, 03:52 PM
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Hydraulic brakes >> tubeless.

Hydraulic brakes will fundamentally improve your ride, your confidence, and lower your life insurance premium by thousands of dollars per year.

If you already have tubeless-compatible rims, it is an easy and inexpensive "upgrade" anyway, but unless you are pinch-flatting all the time, it isn't going to be as life-changing an experience as getting hydraulic brakes (assuming they are Shimano and not SRAM).
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Old 06-11-22, 04:00 PM
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Upgrade your brakes and forget about tubeless.
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Old 06-11-22, 04:00 PM
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If you ride in puncture-prone areas, I say tubeless.
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Old 06-11-22, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
Hydraulic brakes >> tubeless.

Hydraulic brakes will fundamentally improve your ride, your confidence, and lower your life insurance premium by thousands of dollars per year.

If you already have tubeless-compatible rims, it is an easy and inexpensive "upgrade" anyway, but unless you are pinch-flatting all the time, it isn't going to be as life-changing an experience as getting hydraulic brakes (assuming they are Shimano and not SRAM).
I figured as much. The difference is surely more significant for a heavy rider like me. My stock wheel set isn稚 tubeless compatible and I would want to get something $400 to make the upgrade significant. I値l probably just ride tubes until I get another bike down the line. Thanks for the advice!

is there a point in shimano痴 brake lineup where the upgrades are diminishing returns? Deore or Xt maybe? I know they have a off road and road lineup. I知 not too knowledgeable on the specifics of their brake hierarchy.

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Old 06-11-22, 04:36 PM
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Other people know better than I do, but XT dual piston would be ideal (quad piston if you are really heavily into mountain biking). The lower-level ones are probably perfectly adequate. A "good" wheelset for a heavy rider will be double or triple what you are quoting, but worth it if you start breaking spokes or bending rims. More spokes is better.
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Old 06-11-22, 04:46 PM
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I recently upgraded the brakes on a 2012 hybrid from Deore to Deore XT (M785 brake levers and calipers), BH90 hose, and RT81 Ice-Tech rotors

The braking (feel and performance) is significantly improved

overkill for this bike - but I smile almost every time I pull a brake lever

My guess is the current XT brake systems are an improvement compared to the older model I upgraded to
.

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Old 06-11-22, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
is there a point in shimano痴 brake lineup where the upgrades are diminishing returns? Deore or Xt maybe? I know they have a off road and road lineup. I知 not too knowledgeable on the specifics of their brake hierarchy.
I'm not as familiar with the current Shimano hydraulic brake systems - but I believe the significant step up is SLX

(again) I believe SLX and the better Shimano hydraulic brake systems use the same type / track / 'depth' rotors (and pads) and brake hoses ; both resin and sintered (metal) pads can be used

The lower end stuff uses a wider track rotor and pad ... most of the rotors / pads (but not all) for these applications are resin only
.
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Old 06-11-22, 05:43 PM
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The descents you are taking don稚 really matter. For flat stuff, you could probably get away with putting your foot on the tire. Riding in traffic is a different story but on the open road or better yet, gravel road, no biggie.

The tires will make small a difference but it痴 probably not enough to break the bank over.

If you池e riding gravel tires around 40-50psi, you might consider doing a ghetto tubeless setup on your bike. It used to work great on mountain bikes before tubeless became standard. I wouldn稚 do it at road bike pressure though.
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Old 06-11-22, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
The descents you are taking don稚 really matter. For flat stuff, you could probably get away with putting your foot on the tire. Riding in traffic is a different story but on the open road or better yet, gravel road, no biggie.

The tires will make small a difference but it痴 probably not enough to break the bank over.

If you池e riding gravel tires around 40-50psi, you might consider doing a ghetto tubeless setup on your bike. It used to work great on mountain bikes before tubeless became standard. I wouldn稚 do it at road bike pressure though.
I am running about 40-45 PSI so I think I may attempt the ghetto tubeless. I知 pretty novice in the both cycling and mechanic aspects. I ride mostly flat predictable terrain, though I have some interest in taking my gravel bike on some tame flowy trails. I assume hybrid calipers from juin tech would be enough for that sort of thing.

I try to avoid traffic as much as possible. There are some high speed feeders and main suburban roads that I have to cross to get to my typical trails.
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Old 06-11-22, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
I ride about 75% pavement and 25% gravel. All the terrain I知 on is relatively flat. No climbs longer than a few hundred feet if that. I知 a heavy rider (240 lbs) on a Poseidon X with tektro mech brakes and stock wheels.

I understand the safety and importance that comes with significant stopping power. Should I prioritize upgrading the brakes before the wheelset? I知 considering something from the juin tech lineup for brakes.

Does anyone know the performance difference between hybrid flat mount hydraulic brakes and a fully hydraulic brake setup like something from sram/shimano?

and I know I should ride up grades before thinking about upgrades but I digress.
Honestly, brakes are more about how you use them than what they are. I have (and have used) cantilever, v-brake, mechanical disc front/v-brake rear, mechanical disc, and hydraulic. The only brakes I didn稚 like were the hydraulic. I致e never got the 都uperior modulation from a hydraulic. It felt like on or off with nothing inbetween.

The cantilevers, by the way, are on my loaded touring bike that I load with all kinds of gear for weeks long expeditions and throw it down whatever hill comes along with wild abandon. One set of mechanicals is on my tandem which I load me and my wife on and throw it down hills with wild abandonmuch to her horror.
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Old 06-11-22, 11:23 PM
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I've never used "Tektro MD-C510 Mechanical Disc" brakes, but just a better quality brake, whether hydraulic, mechanical or cable pull hydro (like Juin Tech), would be better.
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Old 06-12-22, 12:10 AM
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Hi. I suspect you’ve already answered your own question re ‘brakes/tyres’, as you lead with ‘understanding the importance of stopping’ :-)
No idea of the performance difference between the systems you mention, other than YouTube videos which favour cable actuated disc brakes (with or without hydraulic pistons).
GCN have done brake system comparisons between rim and disc brakes - you might get something from them?

I’d leave well enough alone, ride the current set up some more, and do your own tests to find out your braking distances in different conditions. This will give you an idea of whether you consider the present system is ‘safe’. You mentioned ‘don’t buy upgrades, ride up grades’, so let me give you ‘ride it ‘till you know how it rides’ :-)
Good luck!
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Old 06-12-22, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark View Post
Hydraulic brakes >> tubeless.

Hydraulic brakes will fundamentally improve your ride, your confidence, and lower your life insurance premium by thousands of dollars per year.

If you already have tubeless-compatible rims, it is an easy and inexpensive "upgrade" anyway, but unless you are pinch-flatting all the time, it isn't going to be as life-changing an experience as getting hydraulic brakes (assuming they are Shimano and not SRAM).
Did I miss the sarcasm?
Wow!
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Old 06-12-22, 04:10 AM
  #17  
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Both tubeless and hydro discs have their place. From what you've described, the biggest difference in putting them on your bike is you'll be able to say you put them on your bike.

I'm somewhat close to your weight and most of my miles, in much hillier areas, are done using cantilever brakes. Good quality brakes, well adjusted, with Koolstop pads. The bike seriously STOPS.

You say you're new to cycling. Take a deep breath, buy some really good tires, and ride the bike (and learn how to maintain it).
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Old 06-12-22, 05:59 AM
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Save your money and buy a better bike
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Old 06-12-22, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
Did I miss the sarcasm?
Wow!
Nothing gets by you.
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Old 06-12-22, 09:55 AM
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The correct answer is "get both." Good disc brakes and tubeless tires are, to me, mandatory upgrades, and I'll never buy a new bike that doesn't have them. Upgrading to both doesn't have to be an expensive endeavor, but if you're on a budget, get the brakes first. Hybrid cable/hydro brakes feel a little different than full hydros, but the performance is pretty much identical. The Juin Tech units are available under other brand names, btw.
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Old 06-12-22, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
The correct answer is "get both." Good disc brakes and tubeless tires are, to me, mandatory upgrades, and I'll never buy a new bike that doesn't have them. Upgrading to both doesn't have to be an expensive endeavor, but if you're on a budget, get the brakes first. Hybrid cable/hydro brakes feel a little different than full hydros, but the performance is pretty much identical. The Juin Tech units are available under other brand names, btw.
I just upgraded from V-brakes to cable actuated discs (my bike had both V-brake and disk brake mounts on the frame) and I am very impressed. So much easier to install than fully hydraulic brakes since there isn't any bleeding or special tools required, and they can use standard cable levers, but really good performance and brake feel. And if you already had mechanical discs installed, it would be super easy to install them- you probably would still be able to use the same cable.
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Old 06-13-22, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
I am running about 40-45 PSI so I think I may attempt the ghetto tubeless..
I spotted this and it stood out; what size tires are you running and what kind of bike?

Because I weight the same as you and my road bike needs to be at 100psi (700x28) and the mountain bike at 40psi (29x2.4"), so I'm not sure if you're running at a suitable pressure.

Also, unless you're having difficultly stopping quickly enough, or having problems with flats or tire pressure being too high, I'd just leave them alone and but the money into your next bike instead. I've spent a small fortune upgrading almost all of my bikes and then lost it all when I've inevitably just got a better bike.
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Old 06-13-22, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323 View Post
tJust got this one a few weeks ago though. Decent platform for upgrades.
Do what you like, but it is far more cost efficient to ride the heck out of this bike and save your money. If things do wear out before you are ready to purchase the next bike, then upgrade the worn out component as appropriate (the next level up or maybe two levels up). Otherwise you end up with a box of lower grade components that are still perfectly useful, small increments in performance, and the risk that you are putting titanium lug nuts on a Yugo.
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Old 06-13-22, 11:00 AM
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I'm spending the big bucks (well sorta) to downgrade from non-tubeless to totally tubular. (Well, the city bikes will stay tubed with Paselas for the time being,) The rest are starting the transition back to the sewups I rode exclusively for 15 years and 25 years total.

Several reasons. I've had a flatted clincher roll off the rim and jam in the seatstays. Ugly. painful crash. I can no longer enjoy downhills (Portland and Oregon have some great ones) going twice the speed I crashed at. Can't block the "what if"s. Also love how much abuse a tubular wheel can take (hitting a bottomless pothole for example) and roll along just fine like nothing happened, even with deep dents in the rim. Rare pinch flats. Tire stays on even with 1" or deeper rim damage. Wheel bumps home just fine. (Little rough on the brakes. Oh well.) Confidence inspiring.

The ride! All that air between the road and the rim. None of it hiding in some valley doing nothing. Secure cornering. Everything else being equal, tubulars get better grip. (Learned that the hard way when when I transitioned to clinchers in the '80s and tried to take a downhill wet corner I'd done dozens of times on tubulars.)

Fewer flats than clinchers. I don't know why. But it seems to be. Just hoping that luck resumes. And when it happens. so much easier to deal with! Rip the old tire off. Stick on a new one. Ride. Whatever caused that flat is between the road you are now leaving and the flatted tire under your seat. It cannot cause the next flat. 5 minute tire changes - on good days, on bad days, in the snow, inebriated, in the dark. Very little you can do wrong. (But just roll easy the next few miles, 'till you get home if you use a hard glue.)
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Old 06-13-22, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by fishboat View Post
Both tubeless and hydro discs have their place. From what you've described, the biggest difference in putting them on your bike is you'll be able to say you put them on your bike.

I'm somewhat close to your weight and most of my miles, in much hillier areas, are done using cantilever brakes. Good quality brakes, well adjusted, with Koolstop pads. The bike seriously STOPS.

You say you're new to cycling. Take a deep breath, buy some really good tires, and ride the bike (and learn how to maintain it).
Its a well made bike and I will definitely ride the hell out of it! I think I値l just try and improve my skills and awareness as much as I can until I知 ready to replace worn out parts or buy a whole new bike. Thanks!
Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
The correct answer is "get both." Good disc brakes and tubeless tires are, to me, mandatory upgrades, and I'll never buy a new bike that doesn't have them. Upgrading to both doesn't have to be an expensive endeavor, but if you're on a budget, get the brakes first. Hybrid cable/hydro brakes feel a little different than full hydros, but the performance is pretty much identical. The Juin Tech units are available under other brand names, btw.
I think I will eventually get the juin techs if these tektro痴 ever start acting up or getting difficult. Are those other juin tech exactly the same or are you talking about z race and similar hybrid calipers?

Originally Posted by Herzlos View Post
I spotted this and it stood out; what size tires are you running and what kind of bike?

Because I weight the same as you and my road bike needs to be at 100psi (700x28) and the mountain bike at 40psi (29x2.4"), so I'm not sure if you're running at a suitable pressure.

Also, unless you're having difficultly stopping quickly enough, or having problems with flats or tire pressure being too high, I'd just leave them alone and but the money into your next bike instead. I've spent a small fortune upgrading almost all of my bikes and then lost it all when I've inevitably just got a better bike.
It痴 a gravel bike with 700x37 wtb riddlers. I think I知 within the recc psi but I知 new to all things cycling. they feel good. But my average speed is usually 11-13 mph. I assume that痴 due to the knobs and width of the tire. I think you池e right about just riding until I get a new bike. I splurged for compressionless housing because many said it痴 a game changer for my bike specifically.
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