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Giant Bikes.

Old 06-18-22, 03:43 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by koala logs View Post
Very common in their budget MTBs.
I think you are getting confused between "identical" and "similar". They are both traditional triangular frames of which there are hundreds of similar looking bikes. It's a basic generic design (based on a triangle), common to pretty much any and every bike brand. There is nothing in those photos to suggest that Giant made both of those bikes and they are certainly not identical frames as already pointed out above.

It's like saying those wheels must be made by the same manufacturer because they are both round.
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Old 06-18-22, 03:57 PM
  #27  
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That Schwinn is also listed at $600+ - not a price point often seen at Wally World. Also, I don't see that model being listed on their website, so it's almost certainly not on the floor.
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Old 06-18-22, 05:39 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
That Schwinn is also listed at $600+ - not a price point often seen at Wally World. Also, I don't see that model being listed on their website, so it's almost certainly not on the floor.
Not to mention that the Giant ATX in the photo is a 2016 model. I think we've successfully disproven the claim that Giant is making "identical" Schwinns and selling them at Wal-Mart.
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Old 06-19-22, 11:18 AM
  #29  
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I donít understand the Giant or Trek or Felts being like $2k to $4k less than the top S Works bikes. Zero sense.

I got my Pro 0 TCX like half the price of an equivalent S Works Crux.

Same on road for a Propel vs Venge or a Trinity vs Shiv TT.
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Old 06-19-22, 12:44 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Rolla View Post
Not to mention that the Giant ATX in the photo is a 2016 model. I think we've successfully disproven the claim that Giant is making "identical" Schwinns and selling them at Wal-Mart.
And even if it wasÖ Why wouldnít I be OK with a company helping people get different bikes at different price points?
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Old 06-20-22, 06:12 PM
  #31  
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I have a top-of-the-line 2019 Giant road bike and it's a great bike. Not only does it ride and handle very well, I haven't touched the BB, nothing rattles, the seatpost doesn't slip, the finish is holding up etc. It's been bulletproof.

I get that people don't think Giant is "sexy", but Giant bikes win all kinds of comparison tests and the mechanics i know vouch for their quality and engineering.
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Old 06-21-22, 03:15 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
That Schwinn is also listed at $600+ - not a price point often seen at Wally World. Also, I don't see that model being listed on their website, so it's almost certainly not on the floor.
IMO, that Schwinn is overpriced at $600. I've seen far better specced brand new MTB at $500 already with 1x11 Shimano drivetrain, hollow crank, Novatec hubs with front thru axle, Suntour air shock, tapered threadless headset, internal cables, hydro brakes although I was looking at Singaporean shops

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Old 06-21-22, 06:46 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by koala logs View Post
IMO, that Schwinn is overpriced at $600. I've seen far better specced brand new MTB at $500 already with 1x11 Shimano drivetrain, hollow crank, Novatec hubs with front thru axle, Suntour air shock, tapered threadless headset, internal cables, hydro brakes although I was looking at Singaporean shops
So the bike that's not identical to a Giant model and that's not for sale at Walmart is a poor value compared to some bikes, of questionable provenance/authenticity, available on a tiny island in SE Asia? Well, I'm glad we got that sorted out.
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Old 06-21-22, 12:28 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by koala logs View Post
Very common in their budget MTBs.


Many differences. In fact, I cannot detect one common component. Not a single one.
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Old 06-21-22, 06:24 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I donít understand the Giant or Trek or Felts being like $2k to $4k less than the top S Works bikes. Zero sense.

I got my Pro 0 TCX like half the price of an equivalent S Works Crux.

Same on road for a Propel vs Venge or a Trinity vs Shiv TT.
It's just how the market works. S-Works have simply managed to acquire enough brand kudos to sell for $2-4k or whatever more than the equivalent Giant.
Giant probably sell a lot more units at a smaller margin. If Giant chose to price the same as S-Works they probably wouldn't be able to compete without first raising their brand image - like for example creating a new premium low volume brand (which is exactly what Specialized did with S-Works)
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Old 06-22-22, 07:19 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
It's just how the market works. S-Works have simply managed to acquire enough brand kudos to sell for $2-4k or whatever more than the equivalent Giant.
Giant probably sell a lot more units at a smaller margin. If Giant chose to price the same as S-Works they probably wouldn't be able to compete without first raising their brand image - like for example creating a new premium low volume brand (which is exactly what Specialized did with S-Works)
Yeah, I see vehicle manufacturers do the same.

AMG for Mercedes, M for BMW, SS for Chevy reminds me of the same.

It's pure insanity too as a few of the products aren't actually top performers given their price point with S-works. The Shiv TT bike comes to mind. It's lightest, but among the worst aero performers among the big names in that market of bikes. Cross bikes come to mind also with a Trek Boone a far more innovative frame than a Crux. Love or hate the Isospeed, it's "more" to the Crux's "less" offering to the consumer.

Especially considering the difference is in the frames, the component mixes are identical at that top level. It's pure profit on getting that "S-works" logo.
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Old 06-22-22, 07:51 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Yeah, I see vehicle manufacturers do the same.

AMG for Mercedes, M for BMW, SS for Chevy reminds me of the same.

It's pure insanity too as a few of the products aren't actually top performers given their price point with S-works. The Shiv TT bike comes to mind. It's lightest, but among the worst aero performers among the big names in that market of bikes. Cross bikes come to mind also with a Trek Boone a far more innovative frame than a Crux. Love or hate the Isospeed, it's "more" to the Crux's "less" offering to the consumer.

Especially considering the difference is in the frames, the component mixes are identical at that top level. It's pure profit on getting that "S-works" logo.
Yep, that's why I ride Giant and Canyon bikes. Just better value for money. I wouldn't pay the premium for S-works over regular Specialized builds and even those are pricey compared to Giant and Canyon equivalent specs.
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Old 06-23-22, 10:24 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by PeteHski View Post
Yep, that's why I ride Giant and Canyon bikes. Just better value for money. I wouldn't pay the premium for S-works over regular Specialized builds and even those are pricey compared to Giant and Canyon equivalent specs.
It's a really good point. I find that brands like Specialized, Cannondale, Trek and maybe a few others really play on their name and charge a premium for their brand name. Giant, Merida and some others offer lower prices for bikes that are functionally identical to higher priced models from better known brands, or brands with a certain image. In many cases the frames are manufactured in the same factory with the same machinery and workers before having the same OEM components bolted onto them; the difference is basically only in the name on the downtube.

Canyon is a bit different, being a direct to consumer brand. The quality is definitely there, but the retail model is a bit dofferent, although that is slowly changing now as well, as larger brands wake up to the fact that they'll be heavily undercut if they don't do something.
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Old 06-24-22, 12:06 AM
  #39  
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I think Giant gives consumers as good or better value then any other brand from anywhere in the world Whether your spending $500 on one of their comfort bikes, Like my Sedona, or $5,000 on one of their road bikes like their Defy Advanced Pro endurance bikes. What I like about Giant is the quality of even their entry level bikes from my experience is 2'nd to none. The fit and finish on my 2018 Sedona is supurb, and yes, its made in China.

As far as premium brands go, I'd compare specific models. Bikes might be different then cars. When I researched new GM cars, I found a Cadilac CT4 isn't much more $ then a GMC Terrain similarly equiped, and not much better either. But it might be a bettter value for some folks.

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Old 06-24-22, 05:05 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by PDKL45 View Post
It's a really good point. I find that brands like Specialized, Cannondale, Trek and maybe a few others really play on their name and charge a premium for their brand name. Giant, Merida and some others offer lower prices for bikes that are functionally identical to higher priced models from better known brands, or brands with a certain image. In many cases the frames are manufactured in the same factory with the same machinery and workers before having the same OEM components bolted onto them; the difference is basically only in the name on the downtube.

Canyon is a bit different, being a direct to consumer brand. The quality is definitely there, but the retail model is a bit dofferent, although that is slowly changing now as well, as larger brands wake up to the fact that they'll be heavily undercut if they don't do something.
I wouldn't go as far as saying the frames are identical with just different branding, as they are usually built under contract to a client's specific design and specification. So for example a Specialized carbon frame would be manufactured by the contractor (Giant, Merida or whoever it may be) to Specialized's design and carbon specification. What you can say is that Giant and Merida are not likely to build inferior frames under their own brand name. A top tier Giant or Merida frame is going to be at least as good as anything they are producing for other manufacturers under contract. They are also likely to be using their latest and greatest production tech and materials on their flagship frames.

I don't think Canyon produce their own frames in-house either. Again I think they use top tier contractors who manufacture frames to Canyon's specific design and specification. Canyon obviously make further cost savings by selling direct to customer and are easily the best value for money (at least in the UK market). My Endurace was £4.5k vs £7k for the equivalent Specialized or £5k for an equivalent Giant. You basically have to be a massive Specialized fanboy to justify the cost difference as they are all on a par. Giant are definitely good value too, especially when discounted. I paid £2k for my Defy Advanced Pro 2 at the end of 2019 and nothing else could touch it for that money at the time.
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