Which is obviously false.

Frames don't dampen road vibration--unless they include some sort of dampening mechanism (like Zertz™).

Tell that to the myriad professional riders and reviewers from the past who have a different opinion...

Scuttlebut from non-technical users doesn't stand up to basic physics. Compliance of any frame, when compared to tires/saddles/bar tap, is essentially zero.

I think I'd trust the opinions of professionals whose jobs required them to ride hundreds if not thousands of different bikes and frame materials. Believe what you want, and I'll do the same.

Myth and lore, basic tools of marketing, wins out against basic science.

Not surprised in the least.

Experience and expertise, basic tools of exposition, a blind reliance on raw numbers without taking into account human empirical observation.

Neither am I not surprised in the least.

But at the tire sizes and pressures you guys run at, perhaps it isn't surprising that all sense of road feel and vibration, without regard to fame material, has disappeared?

Want more comfort?

Change your rim profile and tires.

John

Edit… Shallower rim and wider tires. A few more spokes wouldn’t hurt. A little less time spent pumping up the tires is a plus.

Perhaps we can merge this thread with "What's the dumbest thing another bicyclist has told you?". These nostalgic material evangelists usually have TDS (Titanium Derangement Syndrome) or SDS (Steel Derangement Syndrome), which causes a denial of fundamental physics and science and replaces this with emotion.

https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...-told-you.html

Just curious.....have you ever ridden a CAAD 12 or 13?

Go for it.

You've got to be kidding.

No I haven't

Fiddling with rims and spoke count won't help with comfort. Compared to tires, deflection of even the lowest profile rim is insignificant.

Measured radial compliance of a typical wheel rim is ~0.0003 mm/Newton, or about 0.14 mm for an average adult.

An average adult deflects a typical road tire ~6 mm.

I think you might be surprised. I've loaned mine out to a friend who rides a Cannondale Synapse. Her bike frame is being replaced under warranty because the CF frame cracked. So, she needed a bike. She recently told me she loves the bike. I absolutely love the bike myself. I've had it for about 5 yrs and think it's one of the best bikes I've owned/ridden in my 40 yrs of cycling. Try one and try other brands.

He's right, you know.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt all the fun of arguing frame material for yet another time. How many years will people argue over the same thing?

Not a wheel builder, although I’ve built wheels. I only know what I’ve experienced. And deeper stiffer wheels do ride harsher to me. Shallow rims with more compliant spokes ride smoother. Whether it is deflection or transmission of vibration I don’t know. It would be nice to hear from people who actually build wheels.

I don’t recall seeing 29er mtb’s with deep profile rims. Maybe that has changed. The obvious answer is that speeds don’t justify them; all the while people average 15mph on their road bikes with deep profiles.

But I do know shallow rims would ruin the look of a modern road bike.

John

Edit added: I do agree that wider tires with lower pressures have a greater impact.

It's possible that I'm lying to myself, but one of the smoothest riding bikes I've ever ridden (and still own) is a mid-level aluminum Colnago. It also feels the softest (laterally) compared to most of the frames I've ridden/raced. Sure, tires, wheels, bars, etc. make a difference, but when I'm swapping the same wheels between bikes, have the cockpits set up with the same parts, and am using the same saddles, attributing noticeable differences in feel to those components alone gets harder believe. Geometry differences and fork compliance differences I would include as probable significant factors. Years ago, I got a new team frame (Felt - big tube, aluminum). I took all the parts off the Colnago to build the new bike. The difference in feel was vivid immediately - harsher, stiffer, twitchier.

What the hell

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...65b28076ee.jpg

I've ridden many bikes to include aluminum, carbon and steel. I wouldn't trade my Emonda ALR 5 for anything you'd offer. I of course ditched the stock wheels, tires, saddle, and bars several years ago, but that aluminum frame with full carbon fork ride perfectly for me. The geometry and fit are dialed in. I'd imagine if that is the case it doesn't matter what frame material was utilized really.

Very Nice, I likie... but that's purely an emotional thang... which is a great reason to like something...
thread... just another 'old guy' thang... we wanna say something... but it escapes us, as does the name of the person in front of us, whom we've known for 30 + yrs...
2 days later, their name pops back up... so we gotta say it !!! and pat ourselves on the back... LOL!
ride your bike, and love it for whatever reason you wish...
better, good enough or worse... whatever...
I pulled down my old '80 Nago Super and rode it a few days back... Dang ! it wasn;t quite as 'sweet' as I rermembered it, but ti was fun, and brought back good memories.
I'll pull it down again in another couple months, ride again, and prolly have plenty fun.
I try not to let science get in the way, but am happy and again surprised the old science is still hanging in long enough to have some fun.
Also trying to keep my 'OLD Guy' rants to a minimum... there's no 'up side' to it. The new stuff is pretty awesome, even though it may not be a full-on 'match' for me.
'Bah Humbug' are like waves hitting a beach, constant and inevitable, best to not let get tsunami status... LOL!
Ride On
Yuri

Back in, oh, 1980 or 1981, Bicycling road tested an ALAN aluminum bike. They commented it seemed to go all on its own.

Jan Heine would later dub this phenomenon 'planing'.

Cycling Plus magazine road tested a 2014 Specialized Allez with the patented aluminum "Smart Weld" frame and used similar words to describe the ride and feel.

Stiff laterally + smooth ride?

Alex Moulton.

Or so say the salespeople at bike dealers that don't have a single steel bike to sell you.

The owner of our local Cannondale shop (now out of business) sold the hell out of that idea. His personal bike, though - the one he actually rode - was a Surly.

It's only a little over 7 years old. Bought it for myself as a reward for paying off my mortgage. Took the photo when I arrived home after riding it 12 miles from the builder's shop. (It's ceramic-coated titanium in case you don't realize that.)

I actually haven't been riding it all that much the last few years due to some physical issues and because my pendulum has swung back more towards loading touring. The one time I took it out this year I ran over something and destroyed the rear tire after fewer than 6 miles. I am expecting new ones any day now. After they are mounted (they're tubeless) and this heat wave ends I will take it for a ride.

Last long ride for it was 75 miles to Brooklyn. Excuse the expression. I was chewing on a slightly firm Cliff Bar.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...44c977bb1.jpeg

it's visually my kind of 'pleasing', looks my size, I like lower profile wheels...
that it's Ti makes even more interesting - I have ridden Ti, going all the way back to Teledyne, but never really ever had one of the newer frames for any length of time.
Recent rides have been measured in 'miles', not days, much less months, years...
but very nice bike...
Ride On
Yuri

[QUOTE=cyclintom;22578822]I tried to keep up with all of the latest fads. I ended up with top end carbon bikes and to tell you the truth most of them rode like garbage. I am not a pro-racer and I'm not going fast enough to smooth the bumps out with speed. Then they started making carbon bikes for people who just tide. These carbon bikes are pretty light but to tell you the truth my bike and body weigh a little over 210 lbs. and changing this weight by a couple of percent as a normal sports rider doesn't make a detectable difference in climbing or riding on the flats.

A matter of opinion, of course. Many people ride carbon and do not think they "rode like garbage," whatever that means. Ride the the bikes you like. It's that simple.