Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Bike chain grime

Old 08-04-22, 10:17 AM
  #51  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 26,084

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5411 Post(s)
Liked 3,015 Times in 1,769 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
(Note: I wouldn't characterize UFO Drip as has having "little lubricant". The old 2017 MSDS says it had up to 30% waxes.)

My observation that horrible lubes are low viscosity and have little lubricant is based on published test data. The worst performing lubes in the Velonews tests were reported to be "thin". Notice the clustering of "thin" lubes at the bad end of the graph:




However, one can't conclude that all thin lubricants are poor performers. The tests also found some low viscosity formulations that perform well, like the Rock n Roll products. At least they perform well on the Velonews test. Rock-n-Roll Gold didn't do so well on the Zero Friction wear tests.

Given that low viscosity has been correlated to poor performance, but it's not universal, how does a consumer know what they're getting? Review test results, I guess.
Go back and look at magnitude of the range. The chart is showing a range of 4.5 W to 8 W or a total of 3.5 W of difference. ďHorribleĒ is a relative term when speaking of such small differences. In terms of energy, that 2.6 kcal/hr. To put it in food terms, thatís 1/10th of a teaspoon of sugar (500mg). I wouldnít say that low viscosity is correlated with poor performance at all.

Nor would I say that all low viscosity lubricant have low levels of the lubricant. Rock-n-Roll Gold has about 20 to 40% lubricant. White Lightning Clean Ride and White Lightning Epic have about the same range. Finish Line Wet, to pick one at random, is 50 to 85% oil but it performs ďworseĒ than Rock-n-Roll Gold.

The main takeaway from all this is that the chain lube doesnít really matter all that much. A chain is cheap. A chain will wear out no matter what you do to it. Itís not worth losing a whole lot of sleep over. If there were one magic lubricant that was vastly superior to the other lubricants, we would all be using that one. But there really isnít one that performs better than others. They all work well enough on a wear item. From a personal standpoint, I choose the one that requires the least amount of fuss when it comes to maintenance.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Likes For cyccommute:
Old 08-04-22, 04:02 PM
  #52  
buddiiee 
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 267

Bikes: 70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, '11 Shimano Masi Partenza

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by james89 View Post
(just so we're all on the same page here - I HATE scammers and everything about them), but maybe this guy is in the same boat that I am. I have a few questions on a Trek I recently purchased and want to make a thread to show it and get some advice, but sometimes forums can make it difficult to even get the ball rolling. When I first tried to make a thread, I couldn't - I was told I have to have at least 10 posts. When I tried getting my posts up, I couldn't - I was told I can't make more than 5 in a day. On the second day, I tried making 5 more posts, I couldn't. Even though it was after 24 hours, it said I needed to wait 24 hours. When I tried replying with a quote that included an image, I couldn't - I needed to get back to my 10 word-only replies. If this guys really a scammer, have at em'! If he's dealing with what I've been dealing with - give him a break.

To answer his question - take care of your bike and it will take care of you - clean your chain.
Post counts and post content is completely different. I've already chased 3 scammers out of here, and they were all totally identical in nature; all their content was SUPER broad and SUPER vague. There was never any real substance about ANY of their posts. I could describe it more accurately but I dont want to give any tips to these guys. Every single one of their posts were "What's your favorite seat?" , "How much do you like your bike?" or "Yea,I agree!" I was born at night but not last night. I know when someone's just full of ****. You can also tell that English is a second language for them by how simple they keep their grammar and sentence structure. It's just obvious...
__________________
70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, & '11 Shimano Masi Partenza




buddiiee is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 04:07 PM
  #53  
buddiiee 
Full Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Denver Colorado
Posts: 267

Bikes: 70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, '11 Shimano Masi Partenza

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Zero Friction Cycling has tested the new formulation: Lubricant On Test : Ceramic Speed UFO Drip v2


TL;DR -- Second lowest block 1 (no contaminants) wear ever tested.



Fair enough, my initial statement was overly general. Performance of commercially available drip-on, wax-based lubes is highly variable, ranging from superior to horrible.
Actual wear resistance and/or friction reduction are not the same as effort reduction. I just waxed 3 different chains 3 different ways, and those 3 bikes are harder to pedal than the bikes I have a wet lube on. Just to keep people in the know.
__________________
70's Nuovo Record Jeunet Franche Compte, '88 105 Trek 1200, '85 Victory Bianchi Vittoria, '89 Exage Bianchi Strada LX, & '11 Shimano Masi Partenza




buddiiee is offline  
Old 08-04-22, 04:46 PM
  #54  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,511

Bikes: Scott Addict R1

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1974 Post(s)
Liked 1,922 Times in 1,006 Posts
Originally Posted by buddiiee View Post
Actual wear resistance and/or friction reduction are not the same as effort reduction. I just waxed 3 different chains 3 different ways, and those 3 bikes are harder to pedal than the bikes I have a wet lube on. Just to keep people in the know.
Are these 3 bikes otherwise identical to your ďwet lubeĒ bikes?

Hold on, was that sarcasm?
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat

terrymorse is offline  
Old 08-05-22, 02:54 AM
  #55  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1267 Post(s)
Liked 293 Times in 198 Posts
Does anyone know if Squirt will "re-emulsify" if exposed to (hot?) water or is it a one way street requiring degreaser or solvent to remove it?
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-05-22, 08:43 AM
  #56  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,321
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2771 Post(s)
Liked 1,005 Times in 658 Posts
I use this. Much like cycocommute, I no longer have to clean my chain and drivetrain since switching to this. Cleaning and degreasing has become a thing of the past. Never have any grime at all anywhere after hundreds and hundreds of miles of mountain biking, road biking and gravel riding.

https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon.../dp/B00KMMFE8Y

https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Chain-...s%2C107&sr=8-1


Last edited by prj71; 08-05-22 at 08:46 AM.
prj71 is offline  
Likes For prj71:
Old 08-05-22, 08:59 AM
  #57  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,805

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3234 Post(s)
Liked 998 Times in 599 Posts
Since I dont ride in the dirt, and always wipe my chain down before each ride. I use Mobile 1, and have little chain grime.
rydabent is offline  
Old 08-05-22, 09:24 AM
  #58  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,321
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2771 Post(s)
Liked 1,005 Times in 658 Posts
Even if you don't ride in dirt using an oil based chain lube will pick up fine particles from the road and eventually you will have grime.
prj71 is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 04:36 AM
  #59  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1267 Post(s)
Liked 293 Times in 198 Posts
Originally Posted by prj71 View Post
Even if you don't ride in dirt using an oil based chain lube will pick up fine particles from the road and eventually you will have grime.
Im not so sure wax isn't also picking up dirt. Testing squirt on a glass plate to see what its like, it dries to consistency very similar to what new chains come packed with (!) - A soft waxy substance that will easily take a finger print and hold on to random "dirt" I could find in my apartment (ground coffee). Agitating with a finger, its readily absorbed into the wax. Im betting, after several applications and several hundred miles a wax lubed chain will be full of dirty wax, just like a chain with factory grease*.

*why is factory lube always referred to as "grease". Im betting it actually is wax. At least there is a video on YT showing how chains are lube at the factory. Looks like a bath of hot wax to my eyes.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 05:12 AM
  #60  
Bogey Speedwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: SW WI
Posts: 159

Bikes: Cannondale Topstone, Trek Dual Sport

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked 88 Times in 47 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Grime isnít a given. Iíve ridden tens of thousands of miles on dirt roads without collecting grime. Grime comes from using the wrong lubricant. As a long term user of White Lightning, I donít have to clean nor degrease ever! I donít even have to lubricate that often. It makes life a whole lot easier than when I used oil lubricants 20 to 25 years ago.
UPDATE, as I read through the feast of the thread I see you answered these questions, thanks.

you use the clean ride? Sound e like, similar to waxing it would be wise to remove and clean the chain thoroughly first, then would it be wise to wax and then use clean ride as a supplement or 100% clean ride product only.

Last edited by Bogey Speedwell; 08-06-22 at 05:19 AM.
Bogey Speedwell is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 06:37 AM
  #61  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 26,084

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5411 Post(s)
Liked 3,015 Times in 1,769 Posts
Originally Posted by Bogey Speedwell View Post
UPDATE, as I read through the feast of the thread I see you answered these questions, thanks.

you use the clean ride? Sound e like, similar to waxing it would be wise to remove and clean the chain thoroughly first, then would it be wise to wax and then use clean ride as a supplement or 100% clean ride product only.
You can use Clean Ride without cleaning but the chain will be dirtier throughout itís life. Itís not as dirty as oiled chains but handling the chain will leave your hands black. I clean off the factory lube before use with mineral spirits and then use Clean Ride or, occasionally Rock ĎNí Roll exclusively. I can then handle the chain as much as I like without it leaving my hands covered in black gunk.

I have tried White Lightning Extreme Ride in the past and itís got quite a bit more oil in it so itís a dirtier lubricant. Iíve also tried both Rock ĎNí Roll Gold and Absolute Dry. Absolute Dry is similar to Clean Ride in cleanliness and Gold is closer to Extreme RideÖi.e. leaves behind black gunk.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Likes For cyccommute:
Old 08-06-22, 06:46 AM
  #62  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 26,084

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5411 Post(s)
Liked 3,015 Times in 1,769 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Im not so sure wax isn't also picking up dirt. Testing squirt on a glass plate to see what its like, it dries to consistency very similar to what new chains come packed with (!) - A soft waxy substance that will easily take a finger print and hold on to random "dirt" I could find in my apartment (ground coffee). Agitating with a finger, its readily absorbed into the wax. Im betting, after several applications and several hundred miles a wax lubed chain will be full of dirty wax, just like a chain with factory grease*.
It depends on the formulation and the wax. Waxes come in a range of hardnesses from Vaseline (a soft wax) to hard candle wax to, well, asphalt. If you every cross country skied on wax base skis, you would understand that better. Wax for 0įF is super hard while waxes for 35įF are super sticky. Klister is even softer. The formulation of different wax lubricants depends the wax used. The wax for Squirt is a very soft wax while Clean Ride uses a much harder wax.

*why is factory lube always referred to as "grease". Im betting it actually is wax. At least there is a video on YT showing how chains are lube at the factory. Looks like a bath of hot wax to my eyes.
It is, and I’ve mentioned that before numerous times. But people, generally, have little understanding of chemistry and call things by various incorrect names all the time. Don’t get me started on the difference between “clear” and “colorless” or “scale” and “balance”! I can hear Dr. Salzman every time someone uses those terms incorrectly.

And I just love ads at gas stations for “pure gasoline”!
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 07:09 AM
  #63  
rumrunn6
Senior Member
 
rumrunn6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: 25 miles northwest of Boston
Posts: 28,765

Bikes: Bottecchia Sprint, GT Timberline 29r, Marin Muirwoods 29er, Trek FX Alpha 7.0

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4985 Post(s)
Liked 3,111 Times in 2,063 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
people, generally, have little understanding of chemistry and call things by various incorrect names all the time
reminds of when ppl refer to "aspirin" for a headache, when they mean anything for a headache, including but not limited to, ibuprofen or acetaminophen
rumrunn6 is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 07:14 AM
  #64  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1267 Post(s)
Liked 293 Times in 198 Posts
If factory lube is in fact wax (I believe it is), then why would the Squirt manufacturer recommend stripping the chain before application? I says right on the bottle to remove factory grease completely. However I see no reason to believe squirt is incompatible with factory lube. In its dried form it closely resembles the sticky stuff on a new chain and to a lesser degree, but not far off, what is found in the old school MC melt wax tins.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 09:46 AM
  #65  
cyccommute 
Mad bike riding scientist
 
cyccommute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 26,084

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5411 Post(s)
Liked 3,015 Times in 1,769 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
If factory lube is in fact wax (I believe it is), then why would the Squirt manufacturer recommend stripping the chain before application? I says right on the bottle to remove factory grease completely. However I see no reason to believe squirt is incompatible with factory lube. In its dried form it closely resembles the sticky stuff on a new chain and to a lesser degree, but not far off, what is found in the old school MC melt wax tins.
Itís not that the lubricant is incompatible with the factory lubricant. Nothing used as a chain lubricant really is incompatible with that lubricant. But leaving the factory lubricant in place may lead to inconsistent or undesirable results. I used to use White Lightning over the factory lubricant without any performance issues. However, the chain was far dirtier when doing so. The solvent in most any chain lubricant is insufficient to clean off all of the old lubricant so you end up with things being a bit messier than if you clean the chain throughly first.

Just to be clear, Iím not cleaning my chains any more than just shaking it in mineral spirits for about a minute. The elaborate 500 set cleaning regimens that some people use for chain cleaning is entirely unnecessary. Keep it simple. Itís all that is needed.
__________________
Stuart Black
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Days of Wineless Roads. Bed and Breakfasting along the KATY
Twisting Down the Alley. Misadventures in tornado alley.
cyccommute is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 09:54 AM
  #66  
duffer1960
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 589

Bikes: Fred cycles

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 15 Posts
Forgive if this classic Sheldon Brown spoof was already mentioned - https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html

duffer1960 is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 10:04 AM
  #67  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1267 Post(s)
Liked 293 Times in 198 Posts
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
It’s not that the lubricant is incompatible with the factory lubricant. Nothing used as a chain lubricant really is incompatible with that lubricant. But leaving the factory lubricant in place may lead to inconsistent or undesirable results. I used to use White Lightning over the factory lubricant without any performance issues. However, the chain was far dirtier when doing so. The solvent in most any chain lubricant is insufficient to clean off all of the old lubricant so you end up with things being a bit messier than if you clean the chain throughly first.

Just to be clear, I’m not cleaning my chains any more than just shaking it in mineral spirits for about a minute. The elaborate 500 set cleaning regimens that some people use for chain cleaning is entirely unnecessary. Keep it simple. It’s all that is needed.
Thats about what I was thinking. Im striving to do as little drive train maintenance as I can get away with too. No more washing or stripping chains for me. Im down to wiping the chain and cogs with a microfiber cloth before lubing. Sometimes with a bit of solvent, paint thinner or the like, to get rid of black gunk and build up on the chain rings and jockeys. If I get a decent chain life Im happy with that. We'll see.

Last edited by Racing Dan; 08-06-22 at 10:07 AM.
Racing Dan is offline  
Old 08-06-22, 10:05 AM
  #68  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,155
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1267 Post(s)
Liked 293 Times in 198 Posts
Originally Posted by duffer1960 View Post
Forgive if this classic Sheldon Brown spoof was already mentioned - https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html

Spot on! haha :-)
Racing Dan is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.