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£1800 bike. Cannondale Warranty REFUSED. What to do?

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£1800 bike. Cannondale Warranty REFUSED. What to do?

Old 08-13-22, 07:57 AM
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£1800 bike. Cannondale Warranty REFUSED. What to do?

I purchased a brand new Cannondale Treadwell Neo 2 as a means to commute to work. It was to my surprise that on my SECOND test ride a major fault developed. While I was stood at a traffic light, the seatpost suddenly broke off, if I wasn't quick to react I would have fallen into traffic! Upon inspection I found that the seat tube had cracked on the side causing it to bent backwards. I have attached photos of this. I immediately contacted the retailer who were quick to raise a claim with Cannondale. Then the uphill battle began. Cannondale started asking for photos of the seatpost before the incident, asked me for multiple photos of the bike. They then asked for the shop to evalutate it themselves. They were scrambling desperately trying to get out of the warranty agreement. When I sent it back they eventually concluded that the damage was a result of not enough seatpost being inserted. I have attached a photo where they have illustrated their reasoning. Now I am out of £1800 and I just don't know what to do at this point. The retailer has the bicycle and I just want my money back at this point.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 08-13-22, 08:09 AM
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Did you have at least 4 inches (~100mm) of seat post installed in the frame & the seatpost clamp properly torqued at approximately 5 newton-meters?
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Old 08-13-22, 08:14 AM
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Old 08-13-22, 08:28 AM
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...the damage in those photos looks consistent with their analysis as you've repeated it. In fact, I don't know of any other way you could produce that form of frame failure.

There are clear markings on the seat post, with regard to how much needs to be inserted in the frame, to prevent this sort of failure.

I'm uncertain whether you started this thread asking for advice, or looking for reinforcement. I can't offer you any reinforcement, but my advice would be that you might avoid this whole issue in the future by making certain there is at least a couple of inches of seat post inserted down below the lowest point where the top tube joins the seat tube on your frame. I don't think Cannondale is going to offer you much help on this.
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Old 08-13-22, 08:32 AM
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...I did a Google search for this bicycle, as I was unfamiliar with what it might be. I notice it's sold as a "commuter e-bike". May I ask, without being impolite, if this was your first bicycle purchase in a long time ?
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Old 08-13-22, 08:47 AM
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Yep. You did this to you.

For £1800 I'd find a frame builder who would make a quill stem style seat post & put an old fashioned saddle clamp on the top. It'd save your bike at the expense of needing to remove the saddle every time you need to adjust the height.

It's not hard to make a quill style seat post but the length would have to be at the thicker walled area of the seat tube if there was any butting.

What was wrong with buying the right sized bike?
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Old 08-13-22, 09:10 AM
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From the photos it looks like the OP blatantly ignored the minimum insertion mark on the seat post. As base2 posted it looks like this was not the correct size bike for the OP. Definitely not a warranty but if the shop recommended this size bike and the OP needed the saddle that high then maybe the shop is partially at fault. Zero fault lies w/ Cannondale.
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Old 08-13-22, 09:15 AM
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Hey! Thanks for your reply. There are some things missing. First of all, this bicycle was advertised as being able to accommodate for a rider up to 180 cm, and I was told by Cannondale to "position the saddle so it is about the height of my hip", which is what I did. Tell me how a 180 cm guy is supposed to ride with a saddle as low down as they're now claiming it has to be? They should of given me a longer seatpost then, suitable for a 180 cm rider, if they wanted that much insert. So number one is false advertisement. Second, the owner's manual says "the seat post must be inserted a minimum of 100 mm" ~ 10cm. This falls way short of the "clear marking" they put on for save face. And while I can't be sure if the seatpost met the minimum mark, as I wasn't made aware of that in the assembly video or assembly guide, there was definitely a couple of inches inserted, otherwise it would have snapped the second I sat on it. I'm sorry if I am coming off as aggressive in my typing, £1800 is just too much to throw away just like that, not even a week of using the bike. If there is anyway at all to recover it, I have to try everything. Thanks again for your help.
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Old 08-13-22, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
as I was unfamiliar with what it might be. I notice it's sold as a "commuter e-bike". May I ask, without being impolite, if this was your first bicycle purchase in a long time ?
From what I have experienced with this bike, that is a completely valid question to ask. Unfortunately it is my first bicycle purchase, ever. I am completely new to the game. I was recommended this by bicycling, and I was under the impression it was a clean bike, powered, that would be perfect for commuting to work.
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Old 08-13-22, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BikeUser393 View Post
Hey! Thanks for your reply. There are some things missing. First of all, this bicycle was advertised as being able to accommodate for a rider up to 180 cm, and I was told by Cannondale to "position the saddle so it is about the height of my hip", which is what I did. Tell me how a 180 cm guy is supposed to ride with a saddle as low down as they're now claiming it has to be? They should of given me a longer seatpost then, suitable for a 180 cm rider, if they wanted that much insert. So number one is false advertisement. Second, the owner's manual says "the seat post must be inserted a minimum of 100 mm" ~ 10cm. This falls way short of the "clear marking" they put on for save face. And while I can't be sure if the seatpost met the minimum mark, as I wasn't made aware of that in the assembly video or assembly guide, there was definitely a couple of inches inserted, otherwise it would have snapped the second I sat on it. I'm sorry if I am coming off as aggressive in my typing, £1800 is just too much to throw away just like that, not even a week of using the bike. If there is anyway at all to recover it, I have to try everything. Thanks again for your help.
...if you look above, there's a suggestion for a different style of seat post, that will work without the clamp. It will cost you a little bit of looing around to find one that works, or it might need to be custom made by someone. It works with a clamping action within the seat tube itself, like an old style quill stem.. I am sorry that you were sold a bicycle that is too small for you. There may be some culpability on the part of the people who sold it to you, but if you assembled it yourself, I doubt it.

At this point, were I in your place, I would just try to make it work with a specially adapted seat post and move on from there.

The "couple of inches" insertion advice is a bare minimum, and it refers to the lowest point where the bottom of the top tube meets the seat tube. Which is, in turn, a few inches below the top of the seat tube (the part that broke off). You really can be badly injured by this sort off failure, so it's important going forward you understand the cause and the remedy.
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Old 08-13-22, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BikeUser393 View Post
From what I have experienced with this bike, that is a completely valid question to ask. Unfortunately it is my first bicycle purchase, ever. I am completely new to the game. I was recommended this by bicycling, and I was under the impression it was a clean bike, powered, that would be perfect for commuting to work.
...it sounds like maybe you ended up with the wrong size frame (too small for you.) It's hard from my vantage point to know exactly how and why that happened.
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Old 08-13-22, 11:27 AM
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I’d go to the shop and see if they have any suggestions for a fix. Maybe they can recommend a shop.

While it appears that you technically caused the failure, the LBS probably has a bit of responsibility, unless you were warned. I’m willing to bet the vast majority of new riders would do the same thing, especially in today’s environment where there are pages of warnings.

It might be difficult to parse out the company liability ones from the damage to your frame ones. Of course the “Do not operate in an unsafe manner,” kind of blankets anything they may have missed.

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Old 08-13-22, 02:22 PM
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I'm stunned that you could have (not 'of') adjusted the seat height and not seen the quite large 'Min insertion' line. I also don't understand how the shop sold you the bike and didn't help at all with setting the saddle height.
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Old 08-13-22, 02:34 PM
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Did the OP or the bike shop "fit" the seat at that level?
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Old 08-13-22, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BikeUser393 View Post
This bicycle was advertised as being able to accommodate for a rider up to 180 cm, and I was told by Cannondale to "position the saddle so it is about the height of my hip", which is what I did.
Not every person of a given height has the same leg length.

Originally Posted by BikeUser393 View Post
Tell me how a 180 cm guy is supposed to ride with a saddle as low down as they're now claiming it has to be?
If you can't comfortably ride the bike with the seatpost at the proper height, the bike is too small for you.

Originally Posted by BikeUser393 View Post
They should of given me a longer seatpost then, suitable for a 180 cm rider, if they wanted that much insert.
No, you "should of" bought a larger bike.


Originally Posted by BikeUser393 View Post
So number one is false advertisement.
No, it isn't.

Originally Posted by BikeUser393 View Post
Second, the owner's manual says "the seat post must be inserted a minimum of 100 mm" ~ 10cm. This falls way short of the "clear marking" they put on for save face.
So you're saying that the distance from the bottom of the seatpost to the minimum insertion line is less than 10cm? Post a pic of that measurement.

Originally Posted by BikeUser393 View Post
I wasn't made aware of that in the assembly video or assembly guide
So you assembled the bike yourself? Pretty sure the instruction manual advises that the bike be assembled by a professional.

Originally Posted by BikeUser393 View Post
I can't be sure if the seatpost met the minimum mark
I think you can be pretty sure it didn't.

Last edited by Rolla; 08-13-22 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 08-13-22, 04:28 PM
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..it would be nice if everyone didn't pile on. This guy probably feels badly enough already, and we are losing the potential to get someone else out of a car and onto a bike.
I already know it's his first bike purchase, and everyone I know has learned about bicycles through making some mistakes. This one is more fixable and less costly than my first marriage.
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Old 08-13-22, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
..it would be nice if everyone didn't pile on. This guy probably feels badly enough already, and we are losing the potential to get someone else out of a car and onto a bike.
I already know it's his first bike purchase, and everyone I know has learned about bicycles through making some mistakes. This one is more fixable and less costly than my first marriage.
That's often my metric, too, when evaluating my costly mistakes. Makes most of them seem rather trivial.
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Old 08-13-22, 05:40 PM
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Seat post insertion is common sense All you need to do is look at where the top tube joins the seat post tube. The end of the seat post should be below the weld joint where the top tube is welded to the seat tube.
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Old 08-13-22, 06:41 PM
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I’m not trying to assign blame, but there’s no way any kind of shop should have sent it out the door with the post that far over the line.
Was this a direct-to-consumer sale? “Advertised as being able to fit “ and “assembly video” strikes me that the OP never saw or test-rode the bike until it arrived at his house

Bicycles are also deceptively simple machines, and I’ve seen them adjusted, bodged and modified into all kinds of unusual and confusing conditions, because “they still kinda work.”
Until they don’t.
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Old 08-13-22, 06:56 PM
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It's not piling on. The OP is blaming everyone but likely himself. The seat post is clearly marked for the minimum post insertion point and instead there was barely an inch or so of inserted seat tube.
If the OP set the seat post it is his fault completely. If the shop set it it is there responsibility and they should pay for a frame repair or replacement.
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Old 08-13-22, 07:03 PM
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I wonder if a sleeve can be inserted into the seat tube and epoxied in place. And then it might be possible to use a smaller diameter seatpost.

The elephant in the room is the length of seatpost that is needed. If a 350mm seatpost is still too short I’m not sure what you can do.

I know there are posts that are 400mm. I just don’t know the leverage issues with a post that long.

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Old 08-13-22, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BikeUser393 View Post
Second, the owner's manual says "the seat post must be inserted a minimum of 100 mm" ~ 10cm. This falls way short of the "clear marking" they put on for save face.
100mm is 4"...which corresponds to the "clear marking" on the seatpost pic'd above. And that marking is not to "save face"...it's there to avoid the very situation you're describing.



...there was definitely a couple of inches inserted
.

There was definitely 3/4" to 1" inserted...






I understand your frustration, but this was a case of someone not following the owner's manual. If you purchased it at a shop and they set it up that way, shame on them...they owe you a new frame. If you either adjusted it after the shop set it up or assembled it yourself...then chalk this up as an expensive lesson in RTFM.
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Old 08-13-22, 08:06 PM
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I'm sure there is a way to rig some sort of seatpost clamp on that. If you're stuck with it you should see a welder/framebuilder.
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Old 08-13-22, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Seat post insertion is common sense All you need to do is look at where the top tube joins the seat post tube. The end of the seat post should be below the weld joint where the top tube is welded to the seat tube.
It's not even common sense. It's clearly marked on every seat post on the planet.
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Old 08-13-22, 08:23 PM
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The bike sounds like it was the wrong size for you. A size guess on a website unfortunately doesn't translate into real world sizing much of the time without a test ride or knowing the geometry will work for you. Luckily the bike looks like basically a kit bike with an integrated battery.

Probably easy enough to find a frame that fits and move those parts over to a new bike with a new rack or external battery from Hyena. Just ask a shop to help you find a heavy duty touring frame in your size to mount it all

You could also attempt to sell the bike with a damaged frame that is unsafe to ride but purely for parts and buy a bike that fits. Do make sure you test ride the bike before you purchase it and don't buy a bike that you don't fit on no matter what a website says. If your seatpost is way up high that is not a good sign and if it is slammed in the frame also a bad sign as the bike is too big but you are less likely to damage the frame just more likely to hurt yourself or be uncomfortable.

Make sure if you ever adjust your seatpost that the minimum insertion mark is properly in the frame and the seatpost is properly greased or anti-seized and seatpost bolt is properly torqued and if you are unsure about that take it to a mechanic who does. I know whenever I see a seatpost above minimum insertion I correct that as it is pretty easy to notice on many seatpost especially relatively new modern posts like yours.

Warranty is not just a given because something happened. If you damage the bike on your own not from a manufacturer defect they have no reason to warranty something. Humans make errors and sometimes we need to accept that and move forward. The reason they have owners manuals and minimum insertion lines and torque markings and such is so we can attempt to be safe and if nothing else at least they let you know beforehand.

Be safe out there and know sometimes you make mistakes and sometimes they are costly at least this one didn't end up with you in the hospital and if you buy a second one of these in the proper size at least you have a bunch of spare parts when things start to fail or if Hyena cannot provide support which is not uncommon.
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